BM : Lifetap healing pointless ?

[Caithleen]

Allready posted this on vgbloodmage (http://vgbloodmages.com/forums/index.php/topic,149.0.html), but since we have no official forums and no devs seem to follow the boards over there, ill post it here, too :)

It seems every healer has his own speciality to heal.

Be it the disciple healing via meele attacks, or the cleric with direct heals ...

The Bloodmage, in my eyes, should be able to heal by the lifetaps.

I had a group yesterday (at lvl 15) fighting red con mobs (3-4 dot). We wouldnt fight anything lower since a bard or ranger was allready tanking and they we're still easy.

This meant for me : massive resists on tapping.

So i ended up in healstance and putting the large heal every 2nd or 3rd pull on whoever was tanking and a groupheal here and there if we had adds. Mana was fine with canni and even with nuking i never ran low.

An hour later we had a group of three and we're killing 2 dot even cons. I thought i could play my bloodmage here like it was meant to be and heal via lifetaps.

While it was easy to heal a ranger tanking 3-4 dot red with "normal" heals and stay on mana, it was nearly impossible to hold a rogue against 2 dot even cons with lifetaps. Sure, as long as he had that nice HoT on him, there we're no problems but in a heavy spawn area with the recast timer of the HoT ... i had to use the Lifetap, think its called Vein. My Mana got burned, the dmg was .. well ok ... but the HP healed we're ridiculous low. This was with and without Gelenia stance tested.

I ended up in taking the small and large "normal" heal in healingstance and put in some normal nukes an everything was fine again.

I see there are differences in the tanking abilities and the encounters, but if its just super easy to have a ranger tank groupmobs with normal heals forever, why are we burning our mana and the rogue is near death when we use OUR special heal way.

Allright, we are still making a bit more dmg if constantly life tapping over normal heals&nukes... bus i just think this isn't on par.

I'm currently specced vit/int over 100 each (with gear), so i think the dmg and the healbonus should be at least okay.

Am i missing something or is lifetap-healing simply unbalanced atm ? Or do i need to get a few more levels until they are on par ?

Greetings, Caith

[Ferrer]

Entwining vein is being looked at (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9211) for an increase in healing power. So yeah, it's underpowered. That said, I haven't found it to be a significant problem when grouping, just a minor annoyance. The combo of entwining vein and fleshmender's ritual keep the mt alive during common encounters (a single 3-4 dot +2-3 lvl) and when things get spicy, I'll switch to the healing stance and concentrate on using nukes.

[Caithleen]

Entwining vein is being looked at (http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9211) for an increase in healing power. So yeah, it's underpowered. That said, I haven't found it to be a significant problem when grouping, just a minor annoyance. The combo of entwining vein and fleshmender's ritual keep the mt alive during common encounters (a single 3-4 dot +2-3 lvl) and when things get spicy, I'll switch to the healing stance and concentrate on using nukes.

Then the balance seems to be problematic at another point :

Why would i have a tank alive against a single 3-4 dot +2-3 lvl with lifetaps, if i could also keep him easily alive with normal heals against even higher mobs ? (projecting the tanking ranger to a real tank in my scenario)

[Jeters]

because sitting back and normal healing is boring and doesnt add any DPS to the fight?

sure it might be more mana efficient, but what a snorefest...

[Aglemar]

Also getting to and maintaining BU 5 is huge for EV. Especially once you take the resists into account.

[merpa]

You didn't have a tank, you had a ranger. Of course, you don't say how high level the ranger was. Were the mobs red to him as well?

If you were able to keep them alive using normal heals, then maybe it's your normal heals that are overpowered.

Fight with a defensive fighter and see how well your lifetap heals do then.

[Jeters]

heh its totally possible to main healer for a ranger tank -- but I agree that you'll have to rely on mana heals more often, especially if you are in the mid-to-late teens.

[Sepp]

One of the biggest advantages I've found to healing with Vein rather than normal heal, that I rarely see mentioned, is aggro.

When you've got multiple monsters on the group all at once, and the tank is focusing on just one, using vein on the one focused mob is only going to generate aggro from just that one. At least thats my experience. However, using a normal heal increases hate for all the adds, and if they aren't being well controlled or no one has taunted them in any way, very quickly these will all shift focus onto you. Vein healing prevents this somewhat =)

Of course, with vein not being able to keep up with heals, especially if you've got uncontrolled adds running around, this isn't always possible to do as too much damage may be incoming to not use Vit heals. But I'll try to use vein as often as possible in these situations.

[Caithleen]

because sitting back and normal healing is boring and doesnt add any DPS to the fight?

sure it might be more mana efficient, but what a snorefest...

Well thats the problem i have :)

I rolled Bloodmage because i wanted to be that "uber necro style healer" :)

So far i like all out of it, the Bloodpack, the DMG Spells, the Taps, the Symbiotes.

But if you group and your tank allready gets angry because you're an efficient late-healer (with the normal heals, healing when hes around 20-40% allready).

What about "Hey, could you please use normal heals, you're burning too much mana this way!" :(

Some math ((not to mention vit, heal foci, bloodpact))

Infuse Health 2 does 444 health for 86 energy -> 5,2 HP/Mana
Blood Gift 2 does 1036 health for 164 energy -> 6,3 HP/Mana
Entwining Vein 2 does max 269 for 114 energy -> 2,4 HP/Mana

Now put them under ideal conditions

I put up Sanguine Focus... the extra reg is ideal for putting scarring pact on the tank, but ... lets look only at the spells.

We now raise BP to 5.

Infuse Health now does 611 (444*1,1*1,25) health for 86 energy -> 7,1
Blood Gift 2 ... 1425 (1036*1,1*1,25) for 164 energy -> 8,7

Entwining Vein in Gelenia Stance

..does now 466 (207maxhit *1,25*1,8) for 114 energy -> 4,1

Gelenia stance adds Manareg, but you'll be spending that mana tapping yourself up (doing dmg which is fine, but im talking bout mana today :))

Seeing that the "normal heal" is more than twice as efficient without any resist on Vein ... hurts me :(

In my sense of the Bloodmage, the tapping should be the primary healsource, like meele attacks are for the disciple.

No one grouping with me and getting a sense for my healing will allow me to do so since im blasting more than double mana.

Not to mention that i may not be able to keep up with tap-healing

Lets take a heavy fight over 20 secons, ignoring cooldown since you nearly can chaincast those 3 heals.

20 seconds Vein = 10 Veins = 4660 healed (no resist, no lifetap but in gelenia stance, max dmg each time) 1140 energy
20 seconds BG2 = 6 BG2 = 8550 - 984 energy

Make it 30 seconds

15 Veins 6990 healed 1710 energy
10 BG2 14250 healed 1640 energy

Conclusion:

I think either the mana cost of vein has to be lowered - so it becomes the nuke with a small neat heal.

Or it has to heal a sufficient amount to keep a tank up and becomes mana efficient enough through this.

Sorry for the long post and cold numbers, but i care for my class and love it :)

[CrimsonEdge]

The game changed A LOT at 18 for me. As soon as I got a few choice spells (don't want to give any info away), I was able to lifetap heal with NO problems at all. Full hp and mana at all times, regardless of who's tanking.

The only time I would PREFER to switch over to using my big heals would be for long fights, hard fights, or long hard fights. Anything else is 100% doable, and better, if you use your lifetap heals.

Long Edit: I don't feel that the mana cost of the spell should be lowered. You're not looking at how much less hate is being generated, the percantage that each heal goes up per point of blood union, the damage being done, or any other factor that would be the ACTUAL math behind it. However, you do bring up a good point. Vein IS NOT mana efficient as a primary heal.

The reason? It isn't. It isn't meant to be your primary DD either. It's a combination spot heal and damage in one. Not only does it QUICKLY Build your Blood Union up quickly, but it also damages your opponent while healing your own. It isn't supposed to be your primary DD either. You have MUCH better of both.

So, where does Vein fit in exactly? It fits in well in a few places:

1. Full groups with two healers. Let the other healer burn his mana while you sit back and do some mana efficient DD and heals (in one). When he gets low, you take over for the next fight. If the fight gets bad, simply switch.

2. Trios fighting 3-4 dots. You can BURN away a mob with incredible ease as long as you have a tank. Ever since getting my new set of skills at 18, I've never been below 75% hp or mana with non-stop fighting (literally, chain pulling 3 dots, pulling another when another mob runs

3. Soloing. While it may not give as much HP as despoil, it does cast faster allowing for faster BU build up which results in more DMG overall as well as a quicker killing of the monster.

When would you not use it?

1. Solo healing in a full group fighting hard 4-5 dots.

2. Primary healer in a group.

3. If you don't have a tank in a trio.

[Jeters]

oh you can primary healer with it (I do all the time), you just need:

A) CC---AKA fighting one mob at a time
B) Close attention - use everything you have at your disposal: make sure the bard plays your weakness for vein, you're feasted, etc, MTing
C) knowledge that if things get hairy you can step back and switch to big heals.

Please not this is, as CE said, AFTER 18. the pre-18 game is a totally different story, and you are DEFINATELY using mana heals a lot more.

[Malivan]

Conclusion:

I think either the mana cost of vein has to be lowered - so it becomes the nuke with a small neat heal.

Or it has to heal a sufficient amount to keep a tank up and becomes mana efficient enough through this.

Sorry for the long post and cold numbers, but i care for my class and love it :)

Great post, but I disagree with you. Should you factor in how many rounds of damage you negate because of the DPS you did to the mob?

But anyway, what I disagree with is that vein should be our primary way to heal. I think that would dumb us down. If spec'ed for INT, vein is a perfectly fine supplementary heal. I think that having those powerful vitality heals waiting in the wings makes us a better class, more tactical and strategic.

I do not use vein in a situation where its resist would cause a death, and I don't bother with it on deep red or purple mobs because of how much it is mitigated (unless its more for the union point).

Healing through damage is nice, but I do not consider it the defining aspect of our class. It is only one of the many ways we immerse ourselves in the blood of ourselves, our comrades, and our enemies. I can tell you love the class as much as me and want the best for it - I bought Vanguard because of this class!! - but I think your idea, while valid and logical, would kill the complexity of our healing/offense balance.

I love that I can routinely crit for 2500 at level 41 with my union nuke in offense stance. I love that I can basically CH anyone I have ever met with blood gift and a full union in healing stance. PLEASE let us keep those things separate. Don't let us do both things at once. It will kill our decision making and our complexity.

And for the teenagers: FULL INT AND VIT SPEC FTW!

[Sailormoontw]

I had a group yesterday (at lvl 15) fighting red con mobs (3-4 dot). We wouldnt fight anything lower since a bard or ranger was allready tanking and they we're still easy.


The problem is, the bard and ranger are too good at tanking @@

[Shatondra]

I heal primarily with vein, fleshmenders. I however always have on blood pact scarring pact and BF. Vein does need to be upped however with all the dmg being mitigated threw the group its works fairly fine for me even as the only healer. I just scroll threw the grouping casting vein and transfustion mana is not a issue and at the same time any dps I am doing is still mroe dps then pure healing.

Everyone has there own way to heal and feel comfortable with however I do not think vein is broken or badly under powered.

[Valamyr]

The OP has a valid point regarding lifetap resist rates.

IMO it should be resistable but it should have lower resist rates, a bit like lifetaps were back in EQ. Of course, this doesnt mean they should land easy on higher level mobs, but resists on level-appropriate content should be damn rare because they are such a core, essential component of the classes who use them.

[Deicide]

I haven't looked at the number closely so I might be talking through my hat but IMHO Vein and Despoil aren't very mana efficient. I find that using Cyst and mana heals along with transmutes is the best way to get the most of my class whether I'm healing, DPSing, or doing both.

I will use despoil and vein when I have a group member that has a bit of health missing since, or if the target mob is almost dead (quicker to steal life, finishing it off and healing the little you need at same time than waste time doing two spells).

Just last night I did TK4 with a group and I had no problem main healing AND stealing aggro from our tank and I was the lowest level member of the group.

Truly, I find the BM to be amazingly mana efficient overall. If you hit transmutation everytime it's up and have a good health pool, there is no reason to ever run out of mana unless you've attacked something way way too powerful for your group.

The lifetaps are IMHO just candy, I don't think they're meant to be our main healing tools.

[Sturmlied]

I use almost only Vein to heal and never have mana problem.

But the best point in using Vein is aggro, you will never get aggro healing iwht vein.

[Jeters]

I find that vein becomes vastly more efficient for healing around the mid-to-late 20's.

It's not something you can just expect to be efficient unless you TOTALLY commit to it, though. As in, you are Maxing INT, gearing like a caster, paying attention to your spell damage/arcane/phys focus, etc.

at 42 it's my main form of healing along with HoT's.

think of it as a small heal that does damage that you can CRIT on (something I dont think any other healing class can do)

[Vinen]

At 49 Vein is my primary heal. Group with a Bard, Monk or anyone else that will created Vulnerable for you constantly (In my case I grouped with 2 Bards always from 40+) and your Healing / DPS will be a force to reckon with.

There is one thing you do not want to do... and thats count on EV for a critical heal.

With the group I am with normally.. I do not even cast Cyst... we had a Cleric & Disciple and me.. I still used EV for damage. I am getting between 1500-1700 non-crit with my EV's right now consistently grouping with bards.

[Jeters]

oh I agree, don't count on it, but it's nice when it happens =p

[Vinen]

oh I agree, don't count on it, but it's nice when it happens =p

Yeah! I got a 10k Legendary yesterday hahaha was nice.

[Razzorn]

I'm 27 and use EV exclusively to heal. Being that I go for int/wis, and I've capped spell damage, EV hits pretty hard and I hardly ever have to switch to direct heals. I already have aggro issues since my nukes hit regularly for 1k+ and crit over 2k. Direct heals would just cause more aggro. I'm usually paired with a second healer, but if not, I can still manage to stay away from using direct heals unless it really gets crazy.

This is my first out of many MMOs to play a healer as a main. My whole reason for playing this class is to DPS while healing. I gear myself for that and have no issues doing it. I fall back on direct heals when crazyness occurs, but only then. Do the people that are complaining about EV have their spell damage capped? Do you go for high int/wis gear?

I've seen quite a few blood mages now with the wis/vit/healing bonus spec. To me that really goes against what makes a blood mage a blood mage. I watch them stand around and basically play heal bot. They hardly ever nuke, use only direct heals, and NEVER use MT. I understand it's all preference in the end, but that play style is not taking advantage of what a blood mage offers and is better suited for a cleric. I definitely wouldn't be playing one if that was the optimal style of play.

[DuckOfDeath]

To OP, your numbers are completely irrevelant. Perhaps you can compare the energy to hp healed if that is all they did but the life taps also do damage and add blood union which can be used for bonuses to further taps or for other abilities. No way you get all that and still be as efficent as pure healing. Its completely absurd.

Basically life taps are a way for us to do damage and to keep up healing at the same time instead of just being a healbot. Sure its not as efficient in healing but for many its alot more fun. In any case in my experience and from the sounds of others its still more than enough to be used as the primary source of healing with pure heals as emergency backup.

[Bogus]

To OP, your numbers are completely irrevelant. Perhaps you can compare the energy to hp healed if that is all they did but the life taps also do damage and add blood union which can be used for bonuses to further taps or for other abilities. No way you get all that and still be as efficent as pure healing. Its completely absurd.

I would not count on that.

[Keshna]

the only problem i have with being a blood mage is that i cannot use EV to heal with. period. tank's offensive target is dead before i get to hit my assist key since theres no way to auto assist that i know of.

i MUST be able to get an offensive target immediately in order to do lifetap type heals. problem is, every single group im in the damn things are dead before i get a chance to /assist the tank.

any solutions, lemme know cuz i'm sick of direct heals.. not why i picked the class :/

[brendan]

I use Entwining Vein to heal much more than I use direct heals, and here's why.

1) Allows you to stay in FoG since stance-dancing no longer works very well.

2) Allows you to virutally ignore VIT/heal, and stack INT/WIS/Spelldamage. This gives you better gear selection since +heal has limited use and VIT is nowhere near as needed as someone who direct heals. This means UBER DPS which is hot when you're in a group with other healers and you can be a sexy healing wizard. Admittedly your regen will be lower but that pales in comparison to how awesome it is to main tank all your groups with Despoil since noone can keep aggro off your uber dps. Also, use Mental Transmutation more often.

3) Makes you own in group PvP since your INT/WIS/Spelldamage is stacked so high you can easily decimate opposition with 4k Scarlet Ritual crits, and you fully heal yourself with one Despoil.

4) Entwining Vein gives BUP, for more Scarlet Rituals!

5) You are get free extra self healing since your DPS is healing yourself through Blood Feast.

Now I will admit that there are drawbacks to being a lifetap healer.

1) Resists can really ruin your day.

That's really it.

Some argue that it's slower healing, but that argument is largely invalidated by the fact you're using small heals and so can keep your tank propped up at full or near full life all the time. It's not like using direct heals where you need to wait till they are below half otherwise you're overhealing.

Others argue that it's inefficient but that is also BS. For starters, most of those people are probably using way too much wis/vit/heal equipment and not enough DPS GEAR. A lifetap healer is a NUKER! You want to NUKE NUKE NUKE people to full health. Additionally, using Vein you are adding to DPS, and adding extra BUP for more free heals/nukes.

So, in short, lifetap healing owns. Don't forget to use your two HoTs though, they are your bread and butter.

[Arachneus]

Yes lvl 30 BMG currently, with a duo tank I seem to have no problems using Vein, works very well in fact. On a very large pull however I have to start mixing it up with larger heals hear and there as he takes massive dmg from so much aggro (usually 5 lvl 31 2-dots). I use entwining vein/blood union to get a quick 3 and use our new AoE which works wonders suprisingly. Then back to a large heal, with aggro need to throw Numb in there.

Its all situational, there should never be one mode. Oh yeah BMG is supposed to vein heal all the time...wouldnt that get a little boring? knowing a set sequence to do, and not throwing in any other factors.

Full group with just BMG as healer, should go heal focus and heal/nuke here and there. No veins at all usually. Again situational, fighting easier mobs you can get away with it.

[brendan]

Full group with just BMG as healer, should go heal focus and heal/nuke here and there. No veins at all usually. Again situational, fighting easier mobs you can get away with it.

Even solo healing a full group can be done using Vein, and in fact that is when your BMG is at his most fun. Frantic spellspamming joy!

Here's some of what I do:

1) Stay in Focus of Gelenia, make sure Blood Feast is up.

2) Union of Blood, Transfusion of Serak, a tick from FoG, and you've got your 3 BUP for Flesh Mender's Ritual. I will often Cyst first, to get the dot effect from that going. Then sacrifice the BUP for Mender's.

3) Use Mental Transmutation every time it's up.

4) Use Transfusion of Serak to heal yourself from Mental Transmutation damage once you get to near half. Or use Despoil if you are in need of BUP. Blood Feast should be keeping up with Transmutation damage pretty well though.

5) Spam Cysts and Veins! If the tank is taking a lot of damage, then stay at BU5 for the heals. If it's easy going, use Cyst more and sacrifice the BUP for Scarlet Rituals. Don't forget your Transmutations!

6) Once your Union is about to wear off, burn your BUP with Scarlet. A new Union, Despoil and FoG tick and you're back at BU5 for more Vein spam.

Vein is a great healing spell. The only situation where I completely avoid it is when fighting 4-5 dots that are 5+ levels above me. Resists make it unusable at that point.

At level 27 with my stacked INT/spelldamage and FoG, I'm hitting for over 1k with Cyst, and critting a heck of a lot for over 2k. My main issue is finding a tank who can keep aggro off me without me having to interrupt my uber dps to cast Numb.

[Profunda]

It is still possible to stance dance, if you are planning on trying to rely on EV to heal. If you are running with casters, it is sometimes necessary to throw out an energy heal to make sure that they stay alive. The most efficient way to accomplish this is just to add
/combatformset "Focus of Gelenia"
/cast "Spell X" to all of your damage abilities and
/combatformset "Sanguine Focus"
/cast "Spell Y" to all of your energy heals.
I have also found it helpful to have the change to Sanguine macro with Life Husk and Numb as well. Since the changes to forms it can be a little buggy to use the macros, but they do still work most of the time and help to increase the feasibility of this play style. Yes, there may be a lot of error messages involved, but it helps a lot and with a separate chat log for those, you don't have to look at them unless you really like to.

Other than that, there are a few good strategies to playing this way. 1) Any class with an energy regeneration spell helps immensely for having enough energy to play this way (my personal favorite is having a Psionicist and a Bard with me at all times). 2) Pay attention to weaknesses. Vulnerable is a must for EV. Try to make friends with your local Bard/Psionicist/Monk/Disciple (and if you have a bf that plays one, well you are set ;) ). And if you need to, throw a HoT on your tank at the beginning for a fight (low agro and a little hp to help you get started with a good rhythm). 3) It is definitely necessary to sink a lot of points into int and to make sure that you look for gear with high int and spell damage (gear makes a very large difference). Picking a race that gets a fair amount of int every level can really help with this as well.

Profunda Nailo - 38 Blood Mage on Florendyl

[Sturmlied]

the only problem i have with being a blood mage is that i cannot use EV to heal with. period. tank's offensive target is dead before i get to hit my assist key since theres no way to auto assist that i know of.

i MUST be able to get an offensive target immediately in order to do lifetap type heals. problem is, every single group im in the damn things are dead before i get a chance to /assist the tank.

any solutions, lemme know cuz i'm sick of direct heals.. not why i picked the class :/

You have to think ahead!

As a blood mage you have to also think more about the mob hp. when the mob is close to death and there are more mobs to fight, hot the guys taking dmg, pull out one or two direct heals and wait for the next target.

OR

Do it as I do now, I call the next target =)

I just switch to the next mob when the mob is about to die and everyone assists me.
That works really good.

[riblet]

Do it as I do now, I call the next target =)

I just switch to the next mob when the mob is about to die and everyone assists me.
That works really good.


In small groups that is how I get them to do it. Having my partner attack my target lets me keep us healed easily.

[riblet]

the only problem i have with being a blood mage is that i cannot use EV to heal with. period. tank's offensive target is dead before i get to hit my assist key since theres no way to auto assist that i know of.

i MUST be able to get an offensive target immediately in order to do lifetap type heals. problem is, every single group im in the damn things are dead before i get a chance to /assist the tank.

any solutions, lemme know cuz i'm sick of direct heals.. not why i picked the class :/

Solution 1: By default, the "F" key targets your defensive target's target. This is the equivalent of typing "/assist"

Solution 2: Make a macro, "/assist Grolgor" to assist the name of the MT specifically.

Solution 3: On obvious pulls, target something as soon as it is obvious while in FoG. As soon as the mobs are coming peg it with UoB, then start using EV on who ever needs healing. One mob that dies fast can't possibly be hitting you all that hard, even if it is on you the whole fight.

Solution 4: Have the group fight harder mobs that take longer to kill. 4-dot white mobs and up, only. This would be my preferred method.

Solution 5: In a two mob pull of 4-dots+, let the tank know that he needs to generate some small agro on the off-mob. Select the off mob, pop UoB, then use EV healing for everyone else in the group. The mob should stay on the MT, since EV does not generate very much agro. And you get to heal peeps using lifetaps while they rapidly kill the first mob.

[Sturmlied]

Solution 1: By default, the "F" key targets your defensive target's target. This is the equivalent of typing "/assist"


I have maped to the middle mouse button for easy acces.


Solution 2: Make a macro, "/assist Grolgor" to assist the name of the MT specifically.

Having the Maintank as the assist is not that good. A good tank switches target sometimes to gain aggro with adds (if there is no cc).
Usually we have someone else (me *g*) call the targets in the group. So the tank is free to do what ever he wants.


Solution 3: On obvious pulls, target something as soon as it is obvious while in FoG. As soon as the mobs are coming peg it with UoB, then start using EV on who ever needs healing. One mob that dies fast can't possibly be hitting you all that hard, even if it is on you the whole fight.

This also gives you more BU before you even start to fight, so you can start off with a Fleshmenders.

In my groups I'm also going with the puller and target the mob we are going to fight as soon as possible.


Solution 4: Have the group fight harder mobs that take longer to kill. 4-dot white mobs and up, only. This would be my preferred method.

Even 4dot white mobs can drop really fast. But this just means that they are to easy and the group should move on to yellow mobs.


Solution 5: In a two mob pull of 4-dots+, let the tank know that he needs to generate some small agro on the off-mob. Select the off mob, pop UoB, then use EV healing for everyone else in the group. The mob should stay on the MT, since EV does not generate very much agro. And you get to heal peeps using lifetaps while they rapidly kill the first mob.

With this method you still loose damage on the main mob and with CC you can't do it at all.

[treyalsup]

Solution 1: By default, the "F" key targets your defensive target's target. This is the equivalent of typing "/assist"

Solution 2: Make a macro, "/assist Grolgor" to assist the name of the MT specifically.



/assist "Grolgor"

would be the correct typing of the macro- or is the way I use mine and it works.

I just change the name in the macro every time I'm in a new group.

[riblet]

I have maped to the middle mouse button for easy acces.

I have the forward-browse button on the mouse mapped as well. :p You can never have too many extra ways to acquire a handy, and correct target.



Having the Maintank as the assist is not that good. A good tank switches target sometimes to gain aggro with adds (if there is no cc).
Usually we have someone else (me *g*) call the targets in the group. So the tank is free to do what ever he wants.
I do not use the MT myself either. I either pick my own from the agro-list, or I use my pet Ranger for targeting. But if someone is having trouble getting targets fast, a hard-coded macro is reasonable. I deleted all my targeting macro's long ago. VG has a much better targeting system than any other game I have ever played! The pick-list is awesome! ;)



This also gives you more BU before you even start to fight, so you can start off with a Fleshmenders.

In my groups I'm also going with the puller and target the mob we are going to fight as soon as possible.
This method is really what most BM's do, assuming they fight mobs that can actually damage the tank. I have found that UoB-1 + Fleshmenders generates almost no agro. Whatever mob I use is on the tank basically as soon as the mobs get to us.



Even 4dot white mobs can drop really fast. But this just means that they are to easy and the group should move on to yellow mobs.
I also like that the 4-dot dungeons almost always progress to harder mobs the deeper you go. If a dungeon is hard at the beginning, no way you are going to clear it all out till you level. I really can not stand grinding in place. The movement that is encouraged by the dungeon designs is a great change for Vanguard! :p


With this method you still loose damage on the main mob and with CC you can't do it at all.
True, but he said the mobs dropped like rocks. You did not need to do any damage, only to heal. I am never in that situation though, unless there are some 3-dot trash mobs in the way to get to the good mobs. Of course, the tanks essentially does not take any damage either... :confused:

And sorry to do a quote'd quote. :o But wanted to comment on your comments. My original list was really meant for basic suggestions... since the original complaint by keshna was a basic problem.

[Sturmlied]

That's ok =) This is a discussion board so you are supposed to comment my comments =)

But I can't write anymore, because we basically agree. Maybe not in every detail, but everyone is entitled to his own style =)

And I always like to hear the ideas, tactics, etc. from other players, I may learn something.

I also like to talk about my own tactics, maybe someone will learn something or corrects me and again, I may learn something =)

[Keshna]

That's ok =) This is a discussion board so you are supposed to comment my comments =)

But I can't write anymore, because we basically agree. Maybe not in every detail, but everyone is entitled to his own style =)

And I always like to hear the ideas, tactics, etc. from other players, I may learn something.

I also like to talk about my own tactics, maybe someone will learn something or corrects me and again, I may learn something =)

heh last group i was in (long arse time ago on my other character on anther server, ive moved since) was red 4-5 dot mobs(to me anyways) and they were still dropping like flies. no idea what they conned to the rest. seems the general idea at the mid teens is to get the highest level tank you can and just plow through reds. lvl 19 tank against lv 16 mobs with a lvl 15 group = godly xp for everyone but the tank. seems how it is when i lfg anyways.

cant wait for the higher levels, might weed out some of these people :/