Disciple balancing

[Khaolic]

Why I hate to say I told you so, here goes, nanananannanananana I told you so you silly "its ok and intended" repeating bunch of insert-nasty-word-here.

Ok, so I didn´t hate to say it, it felt good.

Just as expected they might have even overdone themselves in the intensity of the nerf (we won´t know until they fix the broken end costs etc) just like I said they would at the end of open beta, when EVERYONE and their mother said that THIS (the absurdly broken disciple class) was indeed intended and well balanced.
Now look at you, whining left and right, crying over spilled milk and behaving exactly like I said you would. (DAoC Friars anyone? WoW paladins anyone? AO agents anyone? EQ monks anyone? etc etc etc etc)

While I do doubt any of you actually LEARNED anything, perhaps for the future you will use that icky mush inside your skulls and actually openly discuss what is BLATANTLY broken instead of denying it until the devs themselves hit with the nerf bat. Here, like all other games, when that does happen they hit far to hard and from what I hear, the disciple is now a bit broken. Well, enjoy your cup of sour grapes and hope it tastes well.

[mlp071]

Why don't you just leave them alone? There is no point telling them anything...

Even VG dev came in and told them , they are not getting anything other then BW fix and they are still ignoring him....imagining that something is gonna change if they think to hard about it :D


You are right on the money about them and pallies in WoW , it seems to be same class, minus armor lol No consistant DPS whatsoever , but on the other hand they shouldn't have one , they suppose to be healers !

Although i personally never was able to group with of them and get any heals from them...always acted like godlike class , wanting to tank (that was hilarious part) or DPS but never ever to heal anyone.

So i found their whining about healing justa farse since usually don't care about anyone else anyways.

And one more time , according to VG , other then mana issues for attack spells and BW fix , you are finished for now. And if you ever graciously decide to group with other 4-5 people you will see that with all buffs you are not that bad....but thats something that is "above you "

They should anyways work on classes that really need help , like a tanks that can't tank (real tanks , not some monk wannabee selfhealing medium armor hybrid healers), and DPS that can't DPS...

Well guess what , now you can group , but only if you gonna heal...good luck with that:rolleyes:

[garath]

Why I hate to say I told you so, here goes, nanananannanananana I told you so you silly "its ok and intended" repeating bunch of insert-nasty-word-here.

Ok, so I didn´t hate to say it, it felt good.

Just as expected they might have even overdone themselves in the intensity of the nerf (we won´t know until they fix the broken end costs etc) just like I said they would at the end of open beta, when EVERYONE and their mother said that THIS (the absurdly broken disciple class) was indeed intended and well balanced.
Now look at you, whining left and right, crying over spilled milk and behaving exactly like I said you would. (DAoC Friars anyone? WoW paladins anyone? AO agents anyone? EQ monks anyone? etc etc etc etc)

While I do doubt any of you actually LEARNED anything, perhaps for the future you will use that icky mush inside your skulls and actually openly discuss what is BLATANTLY broken instead of denying it until the devs themselves hit with the nerf bat. Here, like all other games, when that does happen they hit far to hard and from what I hear, the disciple is now a bit broken. Well, enjoy your cup of sour grapes and hope it tastes well.

I rarely respond to these type of posts because imo, they are worse than the people 'whining' about a change to their favorite class. I can understand the whiners - the class they play was nerfed significantly and it has severly changed their playstyle. They come to boards complaining because they are passionate about the game. Perhaps their complaints are not reasonable but its understandable to a degree. But posts like this I just don't understand. Why the need for the 'neener neener neener'? Did a disciple steal your kills in a former life? Did you come to the boards complaining about the 'overpowered' disciples pre-patch only to have a few tell you to get lost? Why the need to kick a class while its down? How is the disciple overpowering soloing and subsequent nerfing affecting you in the slightest? While there have definately been a few whiners about this whole thing, there have also been an number of well thought out, constructive posts. In fact, some of the complaints are quite valid as you have devs stating that unintended changes were introduced.

Honestly, there is no reason to make a post like this simply to stick your tongue out at a class. Its very unbecoming.

[hawkeye_pierce2]

I rarely respond to these type of posts because imo, they are worse than the people 'whining' about a change to their favorite class. I can understand the whiners - the class they play was nerfed significantly and it has severly changed their playstyle. They come to boards complaining because they are passionate about the game. Perhaps their complaints are not reasonable but its understandable to a degree. But posts like this I just don't understand. Why the need for the 'neener neener neener'? Did a disciple steal your kills in a former life? Did you come to the boards complaining about the 'overpowered' disciples pre-patch only to have a few tell you to get lost? Why the need to kick a class while its down? How is the disciple overpowering soloing and subsequent nerfing affecting you in the slightest? While there have definately been a few whiners about this whole thing, there have also been an number of well thought out, constructive posts. In fact, some of the complaints are quite valid as you have devs stating that unintended changes were introduced.

Honestly, there is no reason to make a post like this simply to stick your tongue out at a class. Its very unbecoming.

Here, here, QFE, well said Garath. I believe everyone should be comfortable, content and happy (even if just in their understanding of their character's class), and I even agree Monks and tanks need a second pass as well (and that Clerics are about to feel our pain once everyone realizes they were and are now WAY more effective in every sense than Disciples ever were...and let's not forget about Necro, Shaman and secretly, Psionicist...all hiding quietly hoping to sneak past the obvious wave of nerfs coming around, even while the core game itself is still considerably bugged but that's another story). Having said all that, enjoy your neener-neener and your stereotyping of Disciples. I for one never let a group/guild member die [unless we all wiped out] and have been praised since launch for my ability to flash around the group (yes you silly Magi included) and heal them while I get my face smashed in by the very mob we're all fighting together (toe-to-toe mind you, unlike any other healing template in gaming history). /flex

[Khaolic]

There is a world of difference Hawkeye. While I agree that clerics will most likely get a slight nerfing, their damage is pretty much where it should be, their healing is also and the only thing over the top is that they have the same survivability as any of the protective fighters, something that is bound to change with gear later on.

The disciple was not in the same boat as any of the other classes you mentioned. Lets take the necro, they can solo damn well, really really damn well. BUT, and this is important, they have to pick their targets. Tag a mob with snare immunity (quite a few of those) and bye bye solo power. Make it move at 185% speed (quite a few of those) and bye bye solo power. Make it have ranged attacks, bye bye solo power. Put it in an area where there is no kiting room and social roamers around, bye bye solo power.
The disciple, prebalancing, did not need to care about any of the above. They did not kite, so the speed of the mob or it having ranged attacks or not did not matter. Social roamers did not matter once you found a good spot to pull to, mob immunity to special attacks did not matter since all their damage was physical melee. (Well, one could possibly make a case for physical melee immune mobs but I have yet to see any of those apart from that very short lived total immunity ectoplasmic shield that some ghosts like to use at 35ish% hp)


Bluntly put, the disciple was completely over the top broken, in a manner that no other class was even close to. Failure to comprehend this, or comparisons made to other classes paint no pretty picture of the people playing the disciple class.

And no, the disciples did not "steal my kills" or any such thing. I brought up all these very very valid complaints on these very same forums before open beta ended and was mocked and ridiculed by the brightly shining beacons of "its all balanced and intentional" players that now play the disciple class.
Something that I had every intention on doing up until shortly before release and ended up not doing, perhaps now I can reroll and still play this class seeing as how it is once again becoming a bit more balanced.

[Viktery]

This is probably the dumbest posts Ive ever seen from someone.

Please lock and or delete.

Id give em a 10 day lock out of Silkyvenom too..............but thats just me.
*sigh*

[Khaolic]

Yeah, sadly I dont post enough to notice that I recon.
I kinda gave up on posting here last time I tried to discuss balance with any of the people posting here so now Im only gloating and laughing and laughing and laughing.

In my ever so humble opinion you would have to be a total asshat if you think this is the stupidest post you have ever seen here or did you miss that guy claiming disciple DPS was nerfed by 1100% or all the people posting about how broken and unplayable the disciple class is now?
I would tell you to look up my old thread from prerelease and read it, but I have a feeling you wouldn´t bother and then just lie and claim you did, when infact, you did not.

Just like all the people posting back then about how -I- was the liar when I wrote about how horribly unbalanced and pending una bending this class was.

[Molitoth]

Why don't you just leave them alone? There is no point telling them anything...

Even VG dev came in and told them , they are not getting anything other then BW fix and they are still ignoring him....imagining that something is gonna change if they think to hard about it :D


You are right on the money about them and pallies in WoW , it seems to be same class, minus armor lol No consistant DPS whatsoever , but on the other hand they shouldn't have one , they suppose to be healers !

Although i personally never was able to group with of them and get any heals from them...always acted like godlike class , wanting to tank (that was hilarious part) or DPS but never ever to heal anyone.

So i found their whining about healing justa farse since usually don't care about anyone else anyways.

And one more time , according to VG , other then mana issues for attack spells and BW fix , you are finished for now. And if you ever graciously decide to group with other 4-5 people you will see that with all buffs you are not that bad....but thats something that is "above you "

They should anyways work on classes that really need help , like a tanks that can't tank (real tanks , not some monk wannabee selfhealing medium armor hybrid healers), and DPS that can't DPS...

Well guess what , now you can group , but only if you gonna heal...good luck with that:rolleyes:


You sir, are a total dumbass.

[Dashel]

You sir, are a total dumbass.

He's an attention whore. He also exaggerated the problem, but he was right that Discs were overpowered and in need of a nerf.

[Molitoth]

but he was right that Discs were overpowered and in need of a nerf.


I don't think I've read a post where any disciple didn't agree...

Everyone knows we needed a nerf. But it needed a to be a nerf that resembled balance in a total atmosphere, not just a solo content nerf that is effecting what the Disciple should truely be.

And what it should be imo is a healer who heals through the special attacks that it was doing.

The reason the class was way overbalanced was because we always had a full bar of Energy sitting there in reserve, take some of that away and they could have balanced the class.

[mlp071]

You sir, are a total dumbass.

Coming from a disciple , thats a compliment :)

[Khaolic]

And here comes Dashel rushing to rescue disciples everywhere...

I take it you still haven´t figured out how you should have gone about smashing those 3 dotters for that sure as heck was no exxageration and I haven´t exactly seen you or anyone else counter the other "exxageration" about disciple balancing.

You are actually the reason I don´t post here anymore, since you are either A) a vocal unskilled asshat OR B) a lying asshat and I´m leaning towards B for unlike you, who asked where, how and when and got all three above, others have emulated that exact same function afterwards.

Now, I did tell you specifically NOT to do the air mobs, but then you came back saying it was impossible since "they stun" and somehow got "they" to mean all the 4 different elementals, which is clearly, plainly and obviously NOT the case, ONLY the air elementals stun and ONLY the air kind was any challenge when you had more then 1. 1 of those was still just fine which kind of puts that entire "disciples can naught solo that which stun" come back that so many are so fond of out the window.

But regardless, I am now gloating and laughing, for I know that even after they fix this issue, the disciple as a class will be toned down and once they fix game balance even more (read: reinstating mob counterspelling making INT mean something and taking away alot of healer solopower by forcing you to leave casting / healing mobs alone) this game will be even better.

[Crysania]

I have really tried to stay out of these debates because they don't really ever go anywhere but oh well...

I rolled a disciple on Targonor...I am fairly new to MMOs but I have always had my first toon a healer of some type. My brother and another friend are normally a mage and tank class so I would play the healer to round out the trio. In my opinion, when playing in a trio you must know your classes to be effective. Especially when you go after things you shouldn't even try to kill which is what we would do and it worked out a lot...because we knew our class... Anyway...I didn't play beta for vanguard so I don't have any previous knowledge other than hearsay of that...and at level 12 I was running around killing lvl 16 mobs with only slight planning and taking on multiple lvl 12 mobs are more often than not surviving. A level 12 of any class should not be able to solo something 4 levels above them without any problem. That's my opinion so I knew something was going to happen...
I do not agree with coming on here and pointing fingers at all disciples and throwing it in our face when our nerf comes...Hello immaturity...I also don't think what the devs did was right either...they nerfed us and didn't fix any of the bugs that would have made up for the nerf...Yea it made me mad to where I haven't bothered to play it for a few days (haha that'll teach em!) but what goes around comes around...I think we all knew when we decided to play this game right at launch that there were going to be many issues still in the game and we were going to have to put up with that...but now that it's reality people just wanna complain about it...

My 2c...commence flaming me