[Darkmoore]

Originally Posted by buckeye

With so many other bugs, missing content, etc. to focus on this is yet another shining example of Sigil wasting valuable time on changing something that was not an issue.

That is where you are wrong. Read the link I added above. Obviously this was a rather large issue for them.

P.S.-Chae, I couldn't agree more.

[qaediar]

Originally Posted by Darkmoore

Well, let's go over a few things shall we? Ok, here we go:

First of all, insults are not appreciated. Only serves to show that something I said actually registered with you.

Secondly, how can you say that this change acknowledges anything other than what Elrar said? Helping to clean up the CS queues is not the same as saying they are loosing subs. Is your hyperbole based upon what is said here in these and other forums? If so, you are basing your assumptions upon minority opinions. Numerous studies have shown that only a maximum of 20% of a playerbase post on forums. 20% is not a good foundation to base opinions.

Third, I think their direction for this game is rather clear. What we are seeing now is what most people see during Open Beta testing of any other MMO. Unfortunately Sigil needed to release early. This was openly acknowledged. Nothing hidden. Brad himself said that the first couple of months would be like this. If it really bothers you and others that much, and you don't feel you should have to pay for this time of altering and transition, then cancel and check it out again in another 2 or 3 months.

As for all the bugs and poor performance issues I see people complaining about, nobody in my household has seen these issues. Therefore, I am skeptical that they are really Sigil's problem. The lowest performing PC in my house currently running Vanguard is a P4 at 2.5Ghz with 1GB of RAM running the game on a 7800GS AGP video card. Nothing spectacular, I wouldn't even call it a midrange PC, yet the game runs rather well. So, where are these issues? How is this game "bug riddled"? You make it sound as if nothing works, when in fact many things in this game do work.

Now, once again I say why all the vitriole? There is no need for anyone to get there blood pressure up. If the changes bother anyone that much, then speak with the only thing that matters....your money. I don't want to see anyone leave because I love this game. However, if enough people are bothered by certain changes and speak with their wallet, then things will change back. If not, then life goes on.

So you think that 20 % is not enough to base opinions on,but 0,000x%(what ever 3 pc's equals to the total numer of pc's that are running vanguard) is enough to determine that there arent any performance and/or bug troubles? Right on!

And as to the reason why they say they want to change the death penalty system. Half the reasons are players being stupid,other half are bugs they should fix.
I still think you can't change the current death-penalty without altering the very core vision on this game. This game was designed with corpse-runs in mind. If you are willing to change that just 2 months after release(they had freakin 6 years to think about this), it shows that you are desperate or you completed lacked a vision of what players wanted when designing the game.

[Sylindril]

Originally Posted by Isobel

What a horrible idea. I realize that this anouncement is timed to entice people to stay in the game for the upcoming month but i do feel it will not turn out as they hope.

This thread just made me vomit.

WTF Brad, this pattern was so predictable, I have to keep lying to my friends who say it wil be wowified.

If the game keeps going in this direction, your "core" wont stick around.

A special thanks to Nino and Jeff Butlter, since we all know you guys both /hump wow, and are commited to making the VG ship sink.

I think it might be best if the Devs just quit working on the game, just change sub fee to 5/month to make up for unfinishedness and leave it as is.

LOL, or you could listen to the 3 posters on SV who continually claim you have to Wowify to reach a larger market, meanwhile cutting out your core, who want a game that isn't like the other 10.

Death penalty pussified, XP easified 3 times since beta 5, GPS maps, oh better put teleports in.

I get it, the challenge is convincing yourself its not a WoW- clone. Cool thanks.

Put Tagad and Tyraslee in charge, maybe they can come up with some good ideas instead of worry about how easy to make the damned thing.

[Darkmoore]

Originally Posted by qaediar

So you think that 20 % is not enough to base opinions on,but 0,000x%(what ever 3 pc's equals to the total numer of pc's that are running vanguard) is enough to determine that there arent any performance and/or bug troubles? Right on!

And as to the reason why they say they want to change the death penalty system. Half the reasons are players being stupid,other half are bugs they should fix.
I still think you can't change the current death-penalty without altering the very core vision on this game. This game was designed with corpse-runs in mind. If you are willing to change that just 2 months after release(they had freakin 6 years to think about this), it shows that you are desperate or you completed lacked a vision of what players wanted when designing the game.

No, I'm saying that more than likely a lot of the performance issues people are experiencing are related to their machine, not anything that Sigil has done. I'm not talking about falling through the world, pets leaving when chunking, etc. I'm only talking about these people who say that they have an uber machine yet only get 10 FPS. That's all I'm saying. I apologize that I didn't make that more clear.

As for the death-penalty being a substantial part of the core Vision of this game, from the beginning I didn't think it was. I think their vision was more of having a large seamless world where you could explore wherever you wished. That was the core that I got out of all the stuff Brad was saying. I think on this one, everyone got out of it something different. As for having 6 years to figure this out, check out the link I put up. There are the major reasons why they are considering this change. Has nothing to do with bad planning. Those reasons are things that nobody could have predicted.

[Darkmoore]

Originally Posted by Sylindril

This thread just made me vomit.

WTF Brad, this pattern was so predictable, I have to keep lying to my friends who say it wil be wowified.

If the game keeps going in this direction, your "core" wont stick around.

A special thanks to Nino and Jeff Butlter, since we all know you guys both /hump wow, and are commited to making the VG ship sink.

I think it might be best if the Devs just quit working on the game, just change sub fee to 5/month to make up for unfinishedness and leave it as is.

LOL, or you could listen to the 3 posters on SV who continually claim you have to Wowify to reach a larger market, meanwhile cutting out your core, who want a game that isn't like the other 10.

Death penalty pussified, XP easified 3 times since beta 5, GPS maps, oh better put teleports in.

I get it, the challenge is convincing yourself its not a WoW- clone. Cool thanks.

Put Tagad and Tyraslee in charge, maybe they can come up with some good ideas instead of worry about how easy to make the damned thing.

The amount of hatred of a game that works, and works well, simply amazes me. You do realize that quite a bit of the systems that WoW uses they got from EQ don't you? So, does that make WoW and EQ clone? Or is all this hatred against an incredibly popular game just a leftover from the 90's when it was cool to be against anything that was popular? Really, I want to know.

If this is truly about Vanguard, and this game not being what you want it to be, then the solution is simple. Vote with your wallet. Raging on a forum is not going to change anything. Not one single thing. Only your money makes changes. Until WoW falls into the toilet and starts bleeding out subs, EVERY gaming company out there will attempt to emulate their success. Plain and simple.

[Speaker]

Originally Posted by MagicNumbers

Personally I never understood the risk vs. reward thing when talking about a death penalty. It's just another time sink really. It would be just as easy to make encounters that much harder so that you wouldn't always be successful in a given night.

I stand by my Meh.

Its like poker. Several times a year I go to Vegas and I play no limit Texas Holdem. I may win 50K...I have been known to lose 50K.... I play for the risk and the reward, for the challenge of my skills and tactics against other players.

Now I could play poker for fun, nickel-dime or even match-sticks. However because there is no risk, then tactics like buffing, or bumping the bet at the right time have no meaning.....people don't care because they have nothing to lose.

Same game mechanic wise, same rules, but entirely different games due to the risk. If I bump you 10K on a hand, even if you have a good hand, you will think hard about it, if I bump you 50-cents, who cares, its chump change, so my skills for bumping and bufing don't work in an easy node game.

Yes, death penalties are time sinks. Time is the only item of value a player has to risk in a game. So yes, if you fail to beat the content, if you die, you lose time, that is the price you pay for "failure".


Encounter should be harder, but if the there are no penalties, what difference does it make if you won or failed, you have risked nothing.

These are combat games, life and death, why play a game like this without risk? This is not a Sims-online....


Now I admit I am hardcore...personally the game content should be so hard the average person will never reach max level...never.... only the best players will.... but that is no reason for the average player not to play, you gotta try..... life is always a struggle, and the best times are when you struggle against something very hard and win.

[displeasingreality]

Originally Posted by Darkmoore

The amount of hatred of a game that works, and works well, simply amazes me. You do realize that quite a bit of the systems that WoW uses they got from EQ don't you? So, does that make WoW and EQ clone? Or is all this hatred against an incredibly popular game just a leftover from the 90's when it was cool to be against anything that was popular? Really, I want to know.

If this is truly about Vanguard, and this game not being what you want it to be, then the solution is simple. Vote with your wallet. Raging on a forum is not going to change anything. Not one single thing. Only your money makes changes. Until WoW falls into the toilet and starts bleeding out subs, EVERY gaming company out there will attempt to emulate their success. Plain and simple.

Stupid argument chief. We have been voting with our wallet, and look at the reactions from the devs.

How about you rethink that one.

[Melios]

Originally Posted by Seasiu Laitya

No, we expected a game which would scare away those who have no business calling themselves "gamers" in the first place.

People who don't want to die/ lose/ fail/ underachieve are not gamers. They would be better off watching a movie, where getting to the end is guaranteed.

And that arrogant elitism is what gave the VG community such a black mark.

[rhagz]

Originally Posted by Darkmoore

Or is all this hatred against an incredibly popular game just a leftover from the 90's when it was cool to be against anything that was popular? Really, I want to know.
.

That's exactly what it is. It's like those people who scoff at people who like a band because they used to like them when they were underground and no one had heard of them.

[Faite]

Silky venom...the venom part does indeed suit these forums.