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Old 03-28-2007, 01:55 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by Grim1 View Post
The problem in a basic sense is that so many of you assume malice from the devs when there never is any. Then you use that assumption to justify your malicious comments.

The Devs are human they make mistakes. Yes Vanguard has issues, every game does. But they are working their behinds off trying to fix them and you all whine it isn't fast enough etc. God how demoralized they must feel when they read the idiotic posts from you twits. It's no wonder they don't come to the forums more often.

I dare say NONE of you could have done better than they have at making Vanguard. If you think you can then PROVE IT and do it or shut up. Your words are just hot air and really only display your lack of maturity.
I have no idea what thread you are responding to but your post does not make much sense.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:01 AM   #402
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I read this post and the one it was referring to at the FoH boards. Perhaps you all should go back and try reading them again slowly. Think about the underliing issues here istead of focusing on the one or two words that get your adrenaline pumping.

I am talking about the general problem at hand that got this hole issue started. The general overall lack of civil discourse in the threads as they relate to the Devs. And the discussion (mostly on the FoH thread) of the need for a heavier hand from the Mods.

Many of you talk to people in threads in ways you would never do in RL. You act like cowards that hide behind their keyboards. It discusts me and many who come here looking for valuable information. Instead we get whiny brats who havent the intelligence to realize that there are real people on the other end of their rants.

Too many hormones and not enough sense. It comes with the territory.. most of you are children. Oh you may have a job and may even be out of your parents house but for the most part you haven't the wherewithal to communicate like adults and it shows.

The fact that you can't even see the point of the original discussion shows you have some serious growing up to do. Get away from your computer and interact with people face to face on a daily basis. Learn some basic people skills.

Next time you decide to go on a rant stop for a second and think of what you would say if the person were actually standing in front of you. I'm sure you would temper your style to be more civilized and worthwhile. When you all can learn to do that then we might actually get a reasonable and informative discussion going with the Dev's. Untill then they will always be leary of posting here or on other boards when everything they say is taken out of context and lied about.

Show a little respect and courtesy and you will get a lot more answers. Realize that most of what you think you know is an assumption. Respectfully ask for clarification of the facts. Confrontational posts only put people on the defensive and push them away. It seems obvious but too many of you don't practice it.


.. excuse the spelling errors.. it's late and I didn't have time to correct them.

Last edited by Grim1 : 03-28-2007 at 02:41 AM.
 
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:41 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Grim1 View Post
Many of you talk to people in threads in ways you would never do in RL.
I'd like everyone to read this particular sentence and then take a moment to absorb the utter and complete hypocrisy that follows. I've highlighted the really funny lines in red.
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Originally Posted by Grim1 View Post
You act like cowards that hide behind their keyboards. It discusts me and many who come here looking for valuable information. Instead we get whiny brats who havent the intelligence to realize that there are real people on the other end of their rants.

Too many hormones and not enough sense. It comes with the territory.. most of you are children. Oh you may have a job and may even be out of your parents house but for the most part you haven't the wherewithal to communicate like adults and it shows.

The fact that you can't even see the point of the original discussion shows you have some serious growing up to do.

Next time you decide to go on a rant stop for a second and think of what you would say if the person were actually standing in front of you. I'm sure you would temper your style to be more civilized and worthwhile. When you all can learn to do that then we might actually get a reasonable and informative discussion going with the Dev's. Untill then they will always be leary of posting here or on other boards when everything they say is taken out of context and lied about.

Show a little respect and courtesy and you will get a lot more answers. Confrontational posts only put people on the defensive and push them away. It seems obvious but too many of you don't practice it.


.. excuse the spelling errors.. it's late and I didn't have time to correct them.
There is no possible way you could know how people speak to others in real life is there? No, of course there isn't. In fact, this is how i talk to people in real life and in every other aspect. If you're looking for Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm go talk to someone else. If you're looking for an unvarnished, honest opinion, or referenced facts come over here.

If someone acts in fashion that deserves respect then they are going to get it. If not, then they don't. Let me know if i have to break that down for you further. As deeply unprofessional as Nino's behavior was, he doesn't get any respect for it. None at all.
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:50 AM   #404
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Grim...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IUhUL-qCpM


for you....
 
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:02 AM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim1 View Post
Many of you talk to people in threads in ways you would never do in RL. You act like cowards that hide behind their keyboards. It discusts me and many who come here looking for valuable information. Instead we get whiny brats who havent the intelligence to realize that there are real people on the other end of their rants.

Too many hormones and not enough sense. It comes with the territory.. most of you are children. Oh you may have a job and may even be out of your parents house but for the most part you haven't the wherewithal to communicate like adults and it shows.

The fact that you can't even see the point of the original discussion shows you have some serious growing up to do. Get away from your computer and interact with people face to face on a daily basis. Learn some basic people skills.

I like it when someone scolds the community for thier behaviour and manages to somehow think they are above the rest. So...we're all pussies, who act tough behind a keyboard, but in RL would be cowards and not stand up for ourselves, and we are all mentally children. I see...ok, thx for clearing that up Grim, Defender of Mature Dialouge.

This thread got huge, derailed about 10 times and people can debate and discuss whatever they want. Who the **** do you think you are to tell others, how to feel or act anywhere. Who the hell made you god of the forums. Last time i checked America is still a free country, and along with that comes free speech. So if you don't like what people have to say, go **** yourself Grim.

Let me give you a tip about "basic skills" pal. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


How was that? Was that too much? I kinda went overboard a little i think? Aww..screw it..it's the Volcano. =)
 
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:58 AM   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim1 View Post
Many of you talk to people in threads in ways you would never do in RL. You act like cowards that hide behind their keyboards. It discusts me and many who come here looking for valuable information. Instead we get whiny brats who havent the intelligence to realize that there are real people on the other end of their rants.

Too many hormones and not enough sense. It comes with the territory.. most of you are children. Oh you may have a job and may even be out of your parents house but for the most part you haven't the wherewithal to communicate like adults and it shows.
You, sir, are indeed correct. I am seldom as polite in public to lackwitted folks as I am on these boards.

No matter how it started, it comes down to this:

FOH and their board is filled with rampant diatribes against a game few of them play. And for some reason, Brad and company continue to go there and post information. They should just pull up stakes and stop trying to convert them over to VG. Lost cause.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:19 AM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honor Woods View Post

FOH and their board is filled with rampant diatribes against a game few of them play. And for some reason, Brad and company continue to go there and post information. They should just pull up stakes and stop trying to convert them over to VG. Lost cause.
I'm pretty sure FOH would like nothing more than for developers like Brad, who can only spin and blow smoke, to stop posting unless they post something worthwhile.

You should look into the discussions held between FOH foums and respectable people like Scott Hartsman (Gallenite) and Curt Schilling (Ngruk.. yes the Red Sox pitcher) and even Smedley.. who while taking some heat in the past deservedly so, has also been part of healthy discussion too.

All of the turmoil you see on those forums stems from one source, and one source alone. Brad McQuaid.
 
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:03 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by rhagz View Post
I'm pretty sure FOH would like nothing more than for developers like Brad, who can only spin and blow smoke, to stop posting unless they post something worthwhile.

You should look into the discussions held between FOH foums and respectable people like Scott Hartsman (Gallenite) and Curt Schilling (Ngruk.. yes the Red Sox pitcher) and even Smedley.. who while taking some heat in the past deservedly so, has also been part of healthy discussion too.

All of the turmoil you see on those forums stems from one source, and one source alone. Brad McQuaid.
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Old 03-28-2007, 01:05 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by rhagz View Post

All of the turmoil you see on those forums stems from one source, and one source alone. Brad McQuaid.
That's a blatant lie. Threads that Brad never comes anywhere near devolve into crap pretty quickly. It's just the nature of the place.
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:55 PM   #410
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Anyone notice Nino doesn't have a SV handle anymore? Or at least I can't find him.
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SEE! SEE!?

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You sire have been DUUUURRed.

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Old 03-30-2007, 02:46 PM   #411
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Did he ever have one?
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Old 03-31-2007, 03:24 AM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nino



I know people would love to emulate Furor, but they all lack the most BASIC element of what made his 'rants' pertinent. Furor PLAYED the game and sought improvement. His goal, in the end, was to make the game better, the company stronger, and by proxy advance the genre. Today's pathetic proteges exist only to tear down, admonish, and insult. That is not the legacy of this board. Today's dissenters are a shallow reflection of what this board used to be.

Sorry, but Nino's comment about Furor is a load of shit. He's deluded if he actually thinks Furor was any more constructive than current critics.
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Old 03-31-2007, 03:57 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by Isobel View Post
That's a blatant lie. Threads that Brad never comes anywhere near devolve into crap pretty quickly. It's just the nature of the place.
Mainly because of the shit Brad has said in the past on that forum. They're not ones to easily forgive and forget; especially when legit questions and concerns are ignored for marketing.

Just my 2c.

With the shape VG is in I don't blame Brad for marketing VG everytime he types anything, just saying.
 
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:31 AM   #414
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*posted also on foh where there was a similar thread*

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Originally Posted by Wolfen View Post
Who exactly made Vanguard ship early? Was it Brad that made that decision? Or was it Smed and SOE telling him to launch or else?

If SOE ordered him to release it early, I'd have to give Brad a small break. If not, then he's getting what he deserves.
Had I had the financial resources, ability to place the product later, etc. I would have given us about 3 more months to get more polish in, more high level content in, and to distance ourselves from the WoW expansion.

That said, we knew the launch date for many months before we released. And we made a promise and we stuck to it. I understand why that date was given and why we had to stick to it and I don't blame anyone.

We made our own share of mistakes that took up time that in 20/20 hindsight would have made up for those 3 months perhaps. I do believe, again in hindsight, that we entered beta too early because of the release date we had with MSFT -- otherwise it would have been held off quite a while and a lot of time getting things working first operationally with MSFT and then again with SOE could have been avoided (e.g. would have only had to do all that once). Much of the roughness of our systems would have been worked out before people from outside Sigil and our publisher would have been able to have been addressed under that scenario as well. I've mentioned the pain in learning the hard way how different it is to manage a company of 100 people vs. a team of 23 was. We had a very experienced team, arguably the most, but it was still a team, from the designer all the way up to me, that had only made MMOGs that had lasted 3 years and taken 23 people, or expansions that had lasted one year.

Had I a time machine, I would go back and do a LOT of things differently, but then life doesn't work that way. We didn't repeat a lot of mistakes we'd already made, but made a lot of new ones given the team size, how ambitious the game was, and the fact that it took 5 years, not 3. Switching publishers, while necessary, also took a lot of time. It also took a lot more effort running the company from a non-creative standpoint than I had thought it would. With EQ, Smed and others handled the business side of things and I, my managers, and my team were able to focus on the game.

As Kendrick posted, we did scale back several times and significantly, but again looking back I probably would have scaled things back more so.

I do take issue with the assertion that I promised a bunch of stuff we didn't deliver. I do fully admit my writing style is verbose and I made a significant effort to hype the game, but at the same time I also made a huge effort to manage expectations and let people know what might not make it in release, what was an expansion idea, etc. Sure, that changed as we got farther along with development. You can look up my posts and look at old copies of the FAQ and see the scaling back that took place (both what Kendrick mentioned and other stuff). And thinking back on it, while I posted a lot of these changes, the FAQ should have been kept more up to date.

I will say I think we did a pretty darn good job overall. We released a game that is probably 80% of what we'd originally planned outside of sheer landmass. We did not completely re-design major systems in beta other than diplomacy -- we revised crafting and harvesting and made some tweaks to combat in terms of pace, how complex it became at what level, etc. But the notion that we threw a bunch of stuff out just isn't accurate -- again, some of the perception likely comes from starting beta when the game was really still in alpha. Probably the biggest features that didn't make it in that I think would have been very cool (or some variant thereof): AES fully realized, fellowships, caravans.

Again, had we a few more months I think the game would have been more polished. That is one of the biggest things WoW taught us, the importance of polish, AI, general accessibility, etc. Launching near TBC was nuts, but again something that couldn't be avoided. Switching publishers also took time, but we would have had a LOT less time to make the game had we not done so. MSFT underwent a lot of internal changes and had to focus on getting out the Xbox 360 -- switching to SOE was simply another change that reality dictated during this long 5 years.

I think the biggest things that are hurting the game right now are:

1. Performance. We simply asked too much of the engine. Tech becoming faster and cheaper will help us with this issue over the next 6 months, but that's 6 month's that *might* have been avoided. That, and we would have had more time to polish and fix bugs and get better and more complete high level content in (and maybe even a more workable AES). We did run into this a bit with EQ 1 being one of the first hardware only games, but not to this extent. Ideally, you launch with both a flexible engine that grows with you and also in a tech window that doesn't mean that a lot of your players feel the need to upgrade their machines significantly. Failing that ideal, however, I'll take the more flexible, planned for the long term tech, and bite the bullet for overshooting in terms of tech than the former (undershooting and/or launching with inflexible MMOG tech that isn't easily upgraded over the years to come).

2. Underpopulated servers. The reason we are enhancing the LFG system (other than it's always a good idea in general) is because it's too hard to find a group. One of the biggest reasons it's too hard to find a group is that we were overly worried the newbie yards would be over populated the first couple of weeks post-launch that we opened with too many servers. That's why we are working on better LFG tools, having to seriously consider overland teleports, etc. If a world at peak hours had 4-5k people on it, this wouldn't be nearly the problem it is.

3. Launching so close to TBC. I never thought we were going to, but Blizzard's launch date was a moving target and things could have worked out better there. Again, though, I think a decent percentage of WoW players are going to want a game like Vanguard (or any other MMOG this year) once they are burned out on the WoW expansion, so I think in the next 4-6 months this issue will become less and less as painful.

4. Marketing. There are two groups of ex-EQ 1, UO, DAoC, etc. players out there: the ones that look back fondly on the years they put into EQ 1 and those who don't -- either they're upset or, more often, they simply have had their lives change and they don't have the time to play another EQ 1. So when they heard about Vanguard and all of the EQ 1 people working on it they didn't even give it a chance -- they simply assumed Vanguard would be as hard core as EQ 1 (when it absolutely isn't). We totally underestimated that second group, and I think if we had got the message out that Vanguard was not just another EQ with all of its time sinks, tedium, leveling times, necessary raiding, need for contiguous time commitments, and somehow got that message clearly and strongly through to that second group we would have launched more strongly. This is another issue, however, we will survive, not just by changing the marketing message, but mainly through viral marketing. Those ex-EQ 1 players who *do* buy Vanguard, and enjoy it, *will* slowly but surely let that second group of people know that Vanguard does *not* equal EQ 1 with better graphics in the ways some people look back, sigh, and mutter 'never again', but that it *does* have the elements in it that made EQ 1 a great game (as well as many of the cooler UO/SWG elements, new systems like Diplomacy, greater immersion, etc.)

So a lot happened in the almost 5 years it took to make Vanguard. We made our share of new mistakes, we were a bit too ambitious in terms of world size and feature set, we were definitely too ambitious in terms of performance, we lost some time switching publishers, we still could have used another 3+ months of dev time, the market changed in general, we did lose some time learning how to organize and manage a 100 man team, and it would have been damn nice to have not launched almost right on top of the juggernaut that is WoW's expansion.

Certainly none of the above mistakes were planned for. Many/most were unexpected. Some of the mistakes were directly our fault, and some more indirectly and some totally beyond our control. I could write another one of my missives going into a lot more detail and maybe one day I will, but I will spare you my verbosity tonight. No matter what ,however, I was CEO and the buck stops here. None of the above do I use as an excuse as if life was unfair to us. We made some bad calls and were put into some bad situations. But I should have known better, planned better, and reacted better, so I take full responsibility. Most assuredly I cannot stress how proud I am of the Vanguard team, past and present, and all of the hard work, sweat, and tears that were put into the game. The team was and is incredible and it was an honor working with them. So regardless of screw-up or mistake, I take responsibility and apologize. The team should feel nothing but pride and a great sense of accomplishment.

That said, I still believe very strongly that we planned many or even most things correctly and that we launched a game that was 80+% the game we had planned to launch (again, other than totally reworking Diplomacy, tweaking some systems later in beta than I would have liked, and shrinking the world a LOT). And again I humbly but strongly stress all of the hooks and stubs that are in the engine, gameplay code, tools, etc -- they *will* pay off. While Vanguard stands on its own as a fun game, despite the bugs and performance issues that we all know exist and have been talked about in this thread and others, it's also set up such that we have years and years of cool features, content, land masses, etc. planned out in detail that will make the Vanguard of 2007, as cool as it is, pale in comparison to the Vanguard of 2008, 2009, etc. Relatively quickly, player run towns with an RTS element, ship and mounted combat, Diplomacy expanding to become more integral with factions, organizations, etc., user generated content, and so much more are really going to make this game shine. That, and even though it does require a lot of horsepower in terms of tech today, those issues will become less and less relevant as time goes by, with PCs getting so much faster and cheaper, RAM and bus speeds getting so much faster, graphics cards getting faster, physics cards, DX 10, utilizing Unreal 3.0 tech more and more, going into expansions with tools and tech that while still could use a lot of improvement are finally at a point where a lot of R&D won't be necessary and that time will be much more efficiently spent putting in content, features, etc.
And finally I still feel very strongly that going seamless will really pay off as the live team adds efficiently to the existing world, databases of items and such can be updated en masse to slow MUDflation and at the same time refresh the world and make it feel more dynamic, ship travel and exploring vast archipelagoes becomes more integral, planes with unique physics models appear miles up into the sky, non-Euclidean Portal technology is used to build unheard of dungeon layouts, Underdark-style 'chunks under chunks' are added, the ability to load any art asset anywhere is more fully realized, and yes even the controversial 'unibody' system allows us to create *that* many more item & armor sets, adding even stronger visual variety to player characters in such an item-centric economy... I still feel firmly that even if we were early and our system specs initially high that all of this tech will pay off big time, especially in the mid to long term, given a genre that thrives on newness and patching, that demands a game world that remains interesting and compelling for year after year.

Anyway, the pages and pages that I posted promoting Vanguard, to get the word out, was the truth as best as I knew it at the time and I updated it as soon as it was obvious something would work differently or not make it in by release. And anything I did miss was unintentional, but the buck still stops here. Where I wasn't clear, or where I failed to manage expectations -- all of that was my responsibility. So while apologetic wherever and however we failed, overall I have no regrets looking back at the 5 years Sigil has been around and look to the next 5 years with even more anticipation. A lot of new mistakes were made, but we took notes and have long memories.

In summary, had a lot of the above not occurred then I think Vanguard would be nearing 300k or 400k and not 200k. A lot of the above caused the game to start out more slowly than I had hoped, anticipated and planned for. But still looking at both sales and retention, the game is doing well, even if in a more ideal world it could be doing even better. The team continues to work their butts off, fixing bugs, optimizing, putting in content, tweaking and balancing, and we have our first expansion and where we want new live content to go planned out for when the timing is right to begin that endeavor. So while all of the above, this post-mortem of sorts, may come across as critical and looking back negatively (and not by accident -- much of this thread is doing just that, so this post is certainly not off topic), Vanguard is still far, far from a failure by any means. Few PC games, MMOGs or otherwise, do more than 100k units, and we surpassed that in a couple of weeks. So even with regrets, some kicking myself, and a lot of 'dammit, if only...' coming out of part of me, the rest of me is damn proud of what we have accomplished, and what we will and are accomplishing, and most importantly extremely honored to have worked with such a team and that so much of that team continues to march onward. Ultimately I am very grateful to God, MSFT, SOE, EQ, and so many other people and products for the opportunity to have been able to do this again. Few get to make even one successful MMOG, much less two. And fewer still given $8M to make the first one and over $30M to make the second.

*humbly bows*

ps. Glad many of you like Nino's style -- he is definitely more cut and dry than me and probably could have said all of this in one paragraph. I hope he and other dev team members are able and willing to continue to post.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:09 AM   #415
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aradune how nice of you to post on a fansite forum!


Look, I like vanguard, and as bumpy as these first few months will be, I can see farther down the line, and baby, this games got potential, the right devs (if they would ever post on the fansites), and community.

Here is the deal, if Sigil keeps working hard to get this game out of "beta" and to fullfill their dreams for the game, then I will keep subscribing.

(p.s. Sorry about the rant of posting on fansites, it just hurts when they have make great content, live up to fan site standards, and then they dont hear from any devs, no returned messages, and then we read a bunch of forum posts on a non-fansite forum)
 
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:40 AM   #416
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Manage expectations? Surely you jest. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy Vanguard and I see the long term potential of the game but really, man, you need to just try and be honest for like 5 minutes. Not with us, but with yourself. How can you say that WoW taught you the importance of polish when you launched a game that wasn't anything even remotely approaching polished? And saying that you didn't completely revamp major systems aside from Diplomacy during Beta is disingenuous at best. Combat today isn't even remotely the same thing that it was during the early stages of Beta aside from the fact that you click buttons to use abilities. You also can't honestly believe that you didn't "promise" a lot of things (hype isn't much different than promise) that just didn't make it into the game: AES, ship-to-ship combat, entire classes, caravans, fellowships, multiple UIs... this is all just off the top of my head. And yes, you should have kept the FAQ more up to date - a whole slew of us begged for it on a regular basis. That would have been at least approaching "managing expectations". We heard a lot of talk about Sigils customer service and how great it was going to be. Does it even exist? Or did you have to fire your entire CS team due to "lack of funding"?

I could go on and on and on and on about how the entire PR part of Sigil just fell flat on its face, but what's the use? It's clear that you flat out just don't get it. Just suffice to say that you (Sigil, not necessarily you yourself) could have done a much, much better job at "managing expectations" and ended up with a much less melodramatic launch.

And please, for the love of God, stop trying to recommend system builds to people.
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:20 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara View Post
We didn't repeat a lot of mistakes we'd already made, but made a lot of new ones given the team size, how ambitious the game was, and the fact that it took 5 years, not 3.
I like what the game offers, and more importantly, I like the long-term prospects of the game. However, I completely take issue with this statement. At least from a general gamer's perspective, your team, comprised of some of the same developers for a decade or more now, continues to make some of the same mistakes over and over again. It has cost you customers, and if I leave the game, it will be because of these issues.

First, your customer service is poor. It always has been, dating back to the days of EQ and the PR people you had early on. In this game, you have known bugs, yet your response to players that are inconvenienced by these bugs is basically, "Sorry, have a nice day". This is completely unacceptable. If you have people losing levels randomly, you can ascertain what level they were when the bug occurred and then award the XP lost. I understand you started giving out pies of double XP once the bug was a bit more widespread, but there were planty of players who got brushed off and basically treated poorly. The pies are a step in the right direction, though. Personally, I bought an item that cost 62.5 silver (a huge sum for me!) and it never showed up in inventory. I petitioned and received no answer for over 24 hours and when I did, it was "Sorry, we are aware this happens. Try these basic things that everyone knows about and sorry for your inconvenience". This is not acceptable, but the minute I couldn't find the item, I knew I was screwed because I have been down this road with your team before. I won't continue to pay for service like that.

The z-axis was an issue in EQ and it is here. People were getting teleported 1k into the air and then dropped to their deaths. People get stuck beneath the world. While I may not know the technical details behind these bugs, I fully recognize them from my time during EQ. So in that regard, this game is the same as EQ. Pathing isn't any better, either. Other games have largely eliminated pathing issues, while your team seems destined to struggle with them forever. Just last night, I got a mob stuck on geometry and had to try and figure out how to get it to follow. After a decade of programming MMOs, you really need to work on the basics. These types of issues really are unacceptable.

Really, the content is good. The vision is good. The mechanics are good (for the most part). The complexity is good. Overall, the game is good. The foundation is flawed, however, and that is what's wrong with the game.

I thank you for posting on fan sites such as this, but really, having to post this the way I am, instead of conversing with a GM, just reinforces what I've known for some time - this game is not going to be worth playing for at least a year, and many players simply won't be interested at that point.
 
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:05 AM   #418
peppy13
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by DCpunk View Post
Manage expectations? Surely you jest. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy Vanguard and I see the long term potential of the game but really, man, you need to just try and be honest for like 5 minutes. Not with us, but with yourself. How can you say that WoW taught you the importance of polish when you launched a game that wasn't anything even remotely approaching polished? And saying that you didn't completely revamp major systems aside from Diplomacy during Beta is disingenuous at best. Combat today isn't even remotely the same thing that it was during the early stages of Beta aside from the fact that you click buttons to use abilities. You also can't honestly believe that you didn't "promise" a lot of things (hype isn't much different than promise) that just didn't make it into the game: AES, ship-to-ship combat, entire classes, caravans, fellowships, multiple UIs... this is all just off the top of my head. And yes, you should have kept the FAQ more up to date - a whole slew of us begged for it on a regular basis. That would have been at least approaching "managing expectations". We heard a lot of talk about Sigils customer service and how great it was going to be. Does it even exist? Or did you have to fire your entire CS team due to "lack of funding"?

I could go on and on and on and on about how the entire PR part of Sigil just fell flat on its face, but what's the use? It's clear that you flat out just don't get it. Just suffice to say that you (Sigil, not necessarily you yourself) could have done a much, much better job at "managing expectations" and ended up with a much less melodramatic launch.

And please, for the love of God, stop trying to recommend system builds to people.
Thanks for saying that. It needed to be said. I really honestly wonder what type of drug Brad is on to make him that delusional from reality. He made many promises of features that are not in the game to this day. The retail box itself lists features that are not in the game at launch. Basically its just an oops I screwed up I'm sorry post thats a day late and a dollar short. He needed to say this a long time ago and be upfront with the community and customers and not mislead us with false promises and false advertising.

Last edited by peppy13 : 04-04-2007 at 10:11 AM.
 
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:48 AM   #419
Kelnozz
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I like what the game offers, and more importantly, I like the long-term prospects of the game. However, I completely take issue with this statement. At least from a general gamer's perspective, your team, comprised of some of the same developers for a decade or more now, continues to make some of the same mistakes over and over again. It has cost you customers, and if I leave the game, it will be because of these issues.

First, your customer service is poor. It always has been, dating back to the days of EQ and the PR people you had early on. In this game, you have known bugs, yet your response to players that are inconvenienced by these bugs is basically, "Sorry, have a nice day". This is completely unacceptable. If you have people losing levels randomly, you can ascertain what level they were when the bug occurred and then award the XP lost. I understand you started giving out pies of double XP once the bug was a bit more widespread, but there were planty of players who got brushed off and basically treated poorly. The pies are a step in the right direction, though. Personally, I bought an item that cost 62.5 silver (a huge sum for me!) and it never showed up in inventory. I petitioned and received no answer for over 24 hours and when I did, it was "Sorry, we are aware this happens. Try these basic things that everyone knows about and sorry for your inconvenience". This is not acceptable, but the minute I couldn't find the item, I knew I was screwed because I have been down this road with your team before. I won't continue to pay for service like that.

The z-axis was an issue in EQ and it is here. People were getting teleported 1k into the air and then dropped to their deaths. People get stuck beneath the world. While I may not know the technical details behind these bugs, I fully recognize them from my time during EQ. So in that regard, this game is the same as EQ. Pathing isn't any better, either. Other games have largely eliminated pathing issues, while your team seems destined to struggle with them forever. Just last night, I got a mob stuck on geometry and had to try and figure out how to get it to follow. After a decade of programming MMOs, you really need to work on the basics. These types of issues really are unacceptable.

Really, the content is good. The vision is good. The mechanics are good (for the most part). The complexity is good. Overall, the game is good. The foundation is flawed, however, and that is what's wrong with the game.

I thank you for posting on fan sites such as this, but really, having to post this the way I am, instead of conversing with a GM, just reinforces what I've known for some time - this game is not going to be worth playing for at least a year, and many players simply won't be interested at that point.
Go back and reread that. He said LATE Beta, which I would assume is phase 4 and 5.
 
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Old 04-04-2007, 10:55 AM   #420
DCpunk
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,053
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I like what the game offers, and more importantly, I like the long-term prospects of the game. However, I completely take issue with this statement. At least from a general gamer's perspective, your team, comprised of some of the same developers for a decade or more now, continues to make some of the same mistakes over and over again. It has cost you customers, and if I leave the game, it will be because of these issues.

*snip*

I thank you for posting on fan sites such as this, but really, having to post this the way I am, instead of conversing with a GM, just reinforces what I've known for some time - this game is not going to be worth playing for at least a year, and many players simply won't be interested at that point.

This is one of the best posts I've seen on this subject yet. Making these same basic mistakes 10 years into the game is totally inexcuseable, not to mention amatuerish.
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