[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by Purplenv

Its gonna take a long time for 200k subscribers to pay off the $30M debt....

(BTW, both those numbers are directly from Brad's post, he stated that subscriptions are approaching 200k, as opposed to the 300k-400k they had hoped by now. Plus stated that he was lucky to have received the $8M to do EQ and the $30M to do Vanguard)

I'm not against the game, at all. In fact I play almost daily, for many hours.

I do however see the battle that Sigil/SOE is fighting as a deffinately uphill climb, but I plan to continue my resub. every 3 months, and I will have a great time playing.

*bow* -- thanks for keeping the faith We're doing everything we can on our side, marching ahead. There's work to do, but it's identified, thanks much in part to our players, bug reports, message boards, etc. and it's scheduled and the plan of attack underway.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by Nostalgix

Exactly how I feel, and inactive subscription too.
Fixing bugs is one thing, but there are worse issues in VSOH atm. Some said the Vision had blurred, actually it's even worse than that.

What are we supposed to do ? Go on paying our monthly fee while they try and fix the flawed designs (if they ever do) ??

And during that time we get XP boosts because, of course, the oncoming expansions have to be released at a certain date and if there aren't enough people at higher levels it might hurt their sales. No matter how broken VSOH is.

I had faith in this game to be at least as good as EQ. It could still be, would the "power that be" hold to their ideas instead of trying to catter to everybody as EQ2 tried to do in its own time (which turned out to be a *big* mistake).

Oh, and any plan to get rid of the repair system, the crafters control over the plats or their ability to make stuff that makes questing/named camping useless ?

The Vision is not blurred. I've seen several references to that today. One of the challenges we face, and it's a challenge we knew we'd be facing since almost the inception of this project, but was also something we were always determined to work through and accomplish, was making a world where casual, core, and hard core players could not just co-exist, but even eventually become interdependent. When you see issues discussed like do we need overland teleporters to deal with server underpop, is the DP ok, item degradation, exp and advancement curves, etc., that's what all of this is trying to deal with and that's why there is no easy solution. We will continue to work through these things, make tweaks and changes, but other issues will come up again as long as we hold that goal as one of our most important tenets.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by Zogy

How much emphasis/resource/programmer are you fixing on the graphics issue for normal everyday perosn? Besides waiting 6months for prices to drop?

I know you don't desgin the game your team does, Do you have in any way able to judge/infuence with the game designer on what's good or bad for in terms of game mechnices to gamers Sigli games? What are your thoughts on these game changing subject out there?

The issue surrounding improvment on communitie that atm is very much ripping each other apart? Due to the high stress the game present at this stage.

Most of it, that's for sure. That's why you don't see us spending a lot of time on SLI or Crossfire support, or a 64 bit client, etc. Our graphics resources are being spent on optimization that helps those out with mid to lower end machines.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by QforQ

Do you plan releasing these numbers?

Since I do operate a site dedicated to the game I do have an invested interest in the game and I do want it to do well. So to have some sort of gauge on that, and to know that you have plans to increase those numbers(through good marketing and what not) would be great encouragement and reassurance

I hope to, but this is a 'more on this later(TM)' issue, sorry.

[Spry]

Just wanted to say ty for making a game me and the wife can enjoy together. We have have very few gripes about the game as a whole.

[Shawnsan]

Brad I wanted to ask a tongue in cheek sort of question of you...

Are you or are members of your design team all former Orkin Men? I ask as the OBSESSION with bugs of various stripes and sizes through out all levels of this game is well obsessive.

[QforQ]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

I hope to, but this is a 'more on this later(TM)' issue, sorry.

Thanks for atleast acknowledging my post and concerns. I appreciate it.

Just know that we're(Vanguard Radio) is behind you guys and chomping at the bit to help you at(we are an affiliate). We love the game and want to see it succeed

[Isobel]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

The Vision is not blurred. I've seen several references to that today. One of the challenges we face, and it's a challenge we knew we'd be facing since almost the inception of this project, but was also something we were always determined to work through and accomplish, was making a world where casual, core, and hard core players could not just co-exist, but even eventually become interdependent. When you see issues discussed like do we need overland teleporters to deal with server underpop, is the DP ok, item degradation, exp and advancement curves, etc., that's what all of this is trying to deal with and that's why there is no easy solution. We will continue to work through these things, make tweaks and changes, but other issues will come up again as long as we hold that goal as one of our most important tenets.

That's the thing though. Attempting to be all things to all people is pretty much doomed to failure. It's an ambitious goal and i admire the fact that you want to reach it. Sadly, in the process of making the attempt you are, at best marginalizing those players who don't play 30 hours a week but still want the death penalty and possibly item degredation and a slower leveling curve and no rested XP. You know, those players you defined as core. The ones you have said over and over are the primary focus of our game. The ones who bought the game as pre-order based on beta and the advertised challenge, and have stayed and played loyaly while, as i said, being marginalized at best and in some cases belittled.

If we wanted to play a game that had fast leveling, rested XP, trivial death penalty we would be playing it. There are three or four of them that have been out for a while and are therefore more polished. But what we actually want is to play Vanguard as it stands now in a less buggy more polished state. Polish does not equate to changing game mechanics. Polish does not equate to changing core game mechanics in order to solve communication and CS problems

[Brit]

Originally Posted by Isobel

That's the thing though. Attempting to be all things to all people is pretty much doomed to failure. It's an ambitious goal and i admire the fact that you want to reach it. Sadly, in the process of making the attempt you are, at best marginalizing those players who don't play 30 hours a week but still want the death penalty and possibly item degredation and a slower leveling curve and no rested XP. You know, those players you defined as core. The ones you have said over and over are the primary focus of our game. The ones who bought the game as pre-order based on beta and the advertised challenge, and have stayed and played loyaly while, as i said, being marginalized at best and in some cases belittled.

If we wanted to play a game that had fast leveling, rested XP, trivial death penalty we would be playing it. There are three or four of them that have been out for a while and are therefore more polished. But what we actually want is to play Vanguard as it stands now in a less buggy more polished state. Polish does not equate to changing game mechanics. Polish does not equate to changing core game mechanics in order to solve communication and CS problems

Well if it counts for anything al those things (death penalty, rested XP? and or faster XP), to me at least, don't directly equate to a 'challenge'. I couldn;t care less if they are there or not. The game needs to be fun to play and fringe things like these are not even a consideration for me and certainly don't make or decrease the challenge in any game I've played.

I've no idea if I'm what would be considered 'core' but the challenge for me in found in the content and most often in group/raid encounters that are hard to complete at the right level. Playing my class well is a challenge. Creating a decent trade skilling empire is a challenge (that I suck at) etc etc.

[Leer Dayne]

Originally Posted by Brit

Well if it counts for anything al those things (death penalty, rested XP? and or faster XP), to me at least, don't directly equate to a 'challenge'. I couldn;t care less if they are there or not. The game needs to be fun to play and fringe things like these are not even a consideration for me and certainly don't make or decrease the challenge in any game I've played.

I've no idea if I'm what would be considered 'core' but the challenge for me in found in the content and most often in group/raid encounters that are hard to complete at the right level. Playing my class well is a challenge. Creating a decent trade skilling empire is a challenge (that I suck at) etc etc.

What a harsh death penalty does do is make people play their classes better. If the threat of death looms over everyones head as you delve deeper into a dungeon, you're going to be more careful about who you group with. If death is basically insignificant (ala WoW), you can pretty much group with anyone -- and if you die, it's not really a big deal.

[ananda]

Originally Posted by Leer Dayne

What a harsh death penalty does do is make people play their classes better. If the threat of death looms over everyones head as you delve deeper into a dungeon, you're going to be more careful about who you group with. If death is basically insignificant (ala WoW), you can pretty much group with anyone -- and if you die, it's not really a big deal.

but in the end, you group with people who you have fun with. there may be less "good" players without a death penalty, but you aren't going to be playing with the bad players anyway.

WoW changed a lot of things, for good and for bad. it brought a lot of ppl into the mmo space that might not have tried it out in the first place. growth of the market can only be a good thing for us all.

but anyway, if i group with someone who "doesn't care if they die", i let them know that it doesnt jibe with how i play the game. most of us are intelligent enough to know if the person is just an a$$hat or is simply clueless and in need of some instruction.

if they are the former, i put them on my ignore and never group with them again.

if they are the latter, i try to give them a hand like someone did to me god only knows how long ago.

those of us who want a challenging adventure can find it with or without overly strict rulesets. a real gaming community is not created through enforcement.

[Brit]

Originally Posted by Leer Dayne

What a harsh death penalty does do is make people play their classes better. If the threat of death looms over everyones head as you delve deeper into a dungeon, you're going to be more careful about who you group with. If death is basically insignificant (ala WoW), you can pretty much group with anyone -- and if you die, it's not really a big deal.

Yes, I see what you are saying. I have grouped with my fair share of idiots in every game I've played and I don't think a harsh death penalty has really put them off. I sometimes never grouped with them again but at the same time also understand people make mistakes.

EQ1 saw may deaths at the hands of such people hehe. Trying to break into fear with summoned armour to recover corpses was fun etc etc though.

EQ2, while it doesn't have a death penalty anymore still doesn't change my disliking of death. Crawling to the bottom of Sol Eye in the 40's and wiping to a couple of adds may just put me back to zone but that's 2-3 hours work down the toilet and a couple of quests I didn't complete that night. Losing XP or not that night was a totally fringe issue.

The challenege is in the content IMHO. Death penalties are just something that happens during play and not always because people make mistakes.

[Brit]

Originally Posted by ananda

but in the end, you group with people who you have fun with. there may be less "good" players without a death penalty, but you aren't going to be playing with the bad players anyway.

...<snip>

Ooo, you said it better. That's pretty much how I view things.

Trying Grummus with 12 people when PoP was the latest expansion in EQ1 = a challenge. Collecting bodies from PoT because someone wanted a closer look at Rallos Zek before we pulled him != challenge hehe. Laughed till I cried though.

[Leer Dayne]

Originally Posted by ananda

but in the end, you group with people who you have fun with. there may be less "good" players without a death penalty, but you aren't going to be playing with the bad players anyway.

WoW changed a lot of things, for good and for bad. it brought a lot of ppl into the mmo space that might not have tried it out in the first place. growth of the market can only be a good thing for us all.

but anyway, if i group with someone who "doesn't care if they die", i let them know that it doesnt jibe with how i play the game. most of us are intelligent enough to know if the person is just an a$$hat or is simply clueless and in need of some instruction.

if they are the former, i put them on my ignore and never group with them again.

if they are the latter, i try to give them a hand like someone did to me god only knows how long ago.

those of us who want a challenging adventure can find it with or without overly strict rulesets. a real gaming community is not created through enforcement.

I can see where you are coming from. It depends on what you call challenging. My definition of challenging is the fear that lurks over your shoulder as you head very deep into a dungeon, knowing that if you and your group are not paying very close attention, and are not very careful, you are going to have to eat the corpse you'll leave if your group wipes. Knowing that I will spawn with all my equipment removes that lurking fear.

Yes, you will eventually know the bad players and make sure not to group with them -- but with the higher death penalty, you will have less bad players in general. Or, even scaling the skill levels, you'll just have better players all around with a greater death penalty. Imagine raiding with the knowledge that you'll have to eat every single corpse you leave when you die.

I don't mind the reduction in the experience lost upon death, but I would like gear to remain on tombstones.

[Leer Dayne]

Originally Posted by Brit

The challenege is in the content IMHO. Death penalties are just something that happens during play and not always because people make mistakes.

Yes, that is a very good point. I definitely do not disagree. However, I'd like to see both challenging content AND a higher death curve. At the very least, I would like gear to remain on corpses when you die.

[framinal]

how about NO
nobody owes him anything expect the 15 bucks a month
and he needs to be damn happy hes getting that from me atm

no more words
time to put your money where you mouth is or ill be taking my money elsewhere

[DocSavag]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

With all due respect, I don't personally code or design. I can assure you and have posted several times as of late that the team continues to work hard and long on addressing issues.

No Brad you don't code or design. You are the standard bearer. The lightening rod. I respect you and your company which is the only reason why I gave Vanguard a chance in the first place. But I think you need to move your message away from explaining how things went wrong and put your massively long post to work on generating interest in what the game will be.

No amount of posting on FOH is going to convince those people of anything. You speak of viral marketing..the place to start that is here with massively long posts talking about what the game is and will become and lets just move past why it isn't there now anyone who wants to know that story already knows it.

[Brit]

Originally Posted by Leer Dayne

I can see where you are coming from. It depends on what you call challenging. My definition of challenging is the fear that lurks over your shoulder as you head very deep into a dungeon, knowing that if you and your group are not paying very close attention, and are not very careful, you are going to have to eat the corpse you'll leave if your group wipes. Knowing that I will spawn with all my equipment removes that lurking fear.

Yes, you will eventually know the bad players and make sure not to group with them -- but with the higher death penalty, you will have less bad players in general. Or, even scaling the skill levels, you'll just have better players all around with a greater death penalty. Imagine raiding with the knowledge that you'll have to eat every single corpse you leave when you die.

I don't mind the reduction in the experience lost upon death, but I would like gear to remain on tombstones.

I don't really mind either way. In EQ1 there were means to summon corpses by two (or so? - Necro & SK - can't remember) classes so even the worst wipe was often recoverable with some time. As a balance this kind of mechanic needs to be in the game if there is a death penalty/corpses. Alters are ok but having a player class summoning like necros was something I always thought was good interaction.

If the game is fun I really don't mind either way.

[Leer Dayne]

Originally Posted by Brit

I don't really mind either way. In EQ1 there were means to summon corpses by two (or so? - Necro & SK - can't remember) classes so even the worst wipe was often recoverable with some time. As a balance this kind of mechanic needs to be in the game if there is a death penalty/corpses. Alters are ok but having a player class summoning like necros was something I always thought was good interaction.

If the game is fun I really don't mind either way.

Truth be told, I agree -- if the game is fun, I don't really care. I'm just stating my preferences.

[Greydog]

Originally Posted by DocSavag

The biggest issues with Brads long winded post on FOH are that it is A) not new information and B) not really helpful. Its time to move past what was and what could have been and into what needs to be.

I believe that this was exactly the purpose of that post. To lay out the reasons the game has not met the expectations that they and many of us has had ...in an attempt to move beyond this point and begin the climb back up the ladder.