[Jebus]

I noticed this post on the official forum, in reference to bards abilities post patch:

1. My bards dps song gives my group about 1/2 the bonus it used to.

2. Noticed that many Bard song components that used to be an instrument "percussion, wind etc" are now blank, so having my drum out with my dps song going now makes no difference to the dps, (so this probably relates to item 1.)

3. The snare on the bard song takes about 5 seconds to kick in now, and by that stage the mob is already on top of us.

I also notice bard's songs in PVP hit me for 1/4 of what they used to now...

So did you guys get totally screwed or what?

[Gecon]

Well, the last Patch was a Bard patch, with an endless list of changes for this class. I do not understand much of what is said there, but probably some things are weaker than before, and others stronger. Or at least the later is to be hoped.

[elorei]

Bards are way way way better than before. New song parts that are "one use only" are extremely strong, and allow for more components. Adding the parts that boost straight damage to a song with anthem is giving 55% extra damage over all to %weapon skills to the group (tested this extensively with a cleric using smite only on like mobs of same level). Also, seems my bard is hitting harder than ever. Last night I broke the 20k damage mark 3 times, the highest being a hit for 24,114 damage on a hewing the mountain (against a blue 4 dot mob). Slow is broken, and snare is kinda....meh...but our ability to heal and regen mana is great now, and our damage songs are total insanity. Add the new rune stuff for even greater goodness.

My current "fight" song is boosting group damage by 24-55% (depending on skill used), has a 150 point rune that refreshes every 4 seconds(this actually makes a big diff, its like a 150 point heal every 4 seconds), heals for 65 every 4 seconds, caps melee haste (28%), and increases melee evasion by 8%.

That is *ONE* song.

[soladim]

Originally Posted by elorei

Bards are way way way better than before. New song parts that are "one use only" are extremely strong, and allow for more components. Adding the parts that boost straight damage to a song with anthem is giving 55% extra damage over all to %weapon skills to the group (tested this extensively with a cleric using smite only on like mobs of same level). Also, seems my bard is hitting harder than ever. Last night I broke the 20k damage mark 3 times, the highest being a hit for 24,114 damage on a hewing the mountain (against a blue 4 dot mob). Slow is broken, and snare is kinda....meh...but our ability to heal and regen mana is great now, and our damage songs are total insanity. Add the new rune stuff for even greater goodness.

My current "fight" song is boosting group damage by 24-55% (depending on skill used), has a 150 point rune that refreshes every 4 seconds(this actually makes a big diff, its like a 150 point heal every 4 seconds), heals for 65 every 4 seconds, caps melee haste (28%), and increases melee evasion by 8%.

That is *ONE* song.

I have to ask what song components you used. The reason I ask is that you quote a 55% damage increase. Anthem gives 15% requiem stacked 3 times = 15% so there is 30% for the group. You probably adding harmony of war and stacking that 3 times which adds your extra 20% BUT the problem with that is you aren't supposed to be able to stack harmony and requiem. It went in but wasn't supposed to. So that 55% is fun, but temporary.

In my humble opinion bards didn't get screwed, we just got more leveled out skill-wise. Since alot of our songs work better now, we can actually adapt to combat situations....But to say that we have become that much more powerful? I will have to wait to see what happens when the "fix" that stacking issue.

[Muggi]

It should be noted the stacking of AoW and RoWx3 is a bug. We're intended to get a 15% straight DPS bonus from the song, not the 30% we are currently getting. If you've been in a full group of meleers in the last couple of days, you can see why pretty easily...we just tear the hell out of anything regardless of level or dots right now.

The fact that they will not stack in the future opens up tons more options for a main DPS song, as the standard setup of "as much Mel's as will fit, and the rest means nothing" is not an option anymore.

Now, you'll have to choose to run AoW and something else in the Chorus slots, or RoWx3 (losing the stat and AC bonus from AoW) and something else in the Melody slot..like an AC/Rune, regen, snares, resists, etc.

Enjoy the 30% while it lasts :P

EDIT: damn you Soladim! I'm a slow typist.

[Sung Entune]

[quote=elorei;298474]Bards are way way way better than before. New song parts that are "one use only" are extremely strong, and allow for more components. Adding the parts that boost straight damage to a song with anthem is giving 55% extra damage over all to %weapon skills to the group (tested this extensively with a cleric using smite only on like mobs of same level). Also, seems my bard is hitting harder than ever. Last night I broke the 20k damage mark 3 times, the highest being a hit for 24,114 damage on a hewing the mountain (against a blue 4 dot mob). Slow is broken, and snare is kinda....meh...but our ability to heal and regen mana is great now, and our damage songs are total insanity. Add the new rune stuff for even greater goodness.
QUOTE]


Yes, overall a very good patch. As Muggi said, RoW and AoW are broken at the moment and stacking. With the best voice mod in the game (Vee's with a 1.4 voice mod) you can get up to 42% damage bonus, not 55%. What do you mean slow is broken? Haven't heard anything about this yet and if so I need to test it. Snare works differently now...March of the Mire was changed to a resistable snare. currently it has a 5 second refresh time, but that is going to be lowered to a 2 second pulse next patch.

If you hadn't noticed a few (and only a few) instruments where changed to 1 hand. The new regen components combined with Runes combined with RoW and combined with Suann's and a 2.25 1H String mod is very uber. If you happen to have the Lute of the Wind, give it a try.

As a note, all current 1H instruments in the game will be reverted back to 2H with the next patch and new 1H instruments are being coded.

[elorei]

No no, I am not stacking the % parts, I am adding the straight damage portion, and anthem. Let us look at how skills that add straight damage work for a second, I have not been able to nail it down at all, even with extensive testing, this is what is beefing damage up.

For instance, let us take a look at humming blade. The buff says +36 damage. I think all bards will agree that it is not just tacking 36 damage on to the end. Test it with dissonance some time. My dot song does 1k per pulse with no humming blade, this moves up to 2k a pulse with humming blade on. This means that +36 is being added before some multiplier. The same goes for Maul of divinity, from clerics. It adds a flat 32 damage, supposedly, but you get exponential returns from it. My only guess is that this damage is tacked on to the stated weapon damage, before multipliers.

Using skills that add +damage in a bard song, and also running a % on top of it makes for totally insane numbers, just as with humming blade and maul of divinity.

The test we used was on grey con turtles on strandan beach. We picked a handful of lvl 38 turtles, and ignored results from all lvl 37s. Smiting blow, without song, averaged 1050 damage after many hits. After applying song, the cleric was now averaging 1575 damage on smiting blow, same buffs, same mob, same level, same weapon. Hand of censure, which does not have a % mod in it, resulted in less spectacular numbers, however they were still far above the 15% expected bonus (~28%).

My only answer as to the "why" of it is based on the +damage skills. Obviously these do not add a flat damage bnonus to the END of the calculation, and if added earlier, once it gets nailed with a 200-400% modifier, this extra damage is huge. Take, for example, the damage FOtH does. This damage is almost untouched by strength, so it is relying strictly on stated % and bonus. If you add 45 damage to that weapon, the results are off the charts (see my above example of my 24k hit).

As to the composition of the song, I will post it when I leave work, VG wont run at all here, I tried.

[elorei]

Originally Posted by Sung Entune

What do you mean slow is broken? Haven't heard anything about this yet and if so I need to test it.

It slows YOU, not your offensive target.

[uberowo]

Originally Posted by elorei

My only guess is that this damage is tacked on to the stated weapon damage, before multipliers.

This is extremely old news, and also in line with how all +damage skills work afaik. (The only other melee class I have is a paladin, which has a similar bonus in Marshalling Cry.)

[elorei]

Originally Posted by uberowo

This is extremely old news, and also in line with how all +damage skills work afaik. (The only other melee class I have is a paladin, which has a similar bonus in Marshalling Cry.)

Well, there is your answer. Thus my 55% bonus damage.

[Nahte]

I'm always amazed at just how uninformed and uneducated bards are about the class they play. Some of this "math" is a perfect example of just how "un" some bards are

http://www.vgbards.com

[Gecon]

What can I say - I recently met a level 30 Cleric that I asked about his Affinity and his answer was all "my WHAT ???". LOL

[elorei]

Originally Posted by Nahte

I'm always amazed at just how uninformed and uneducated bards are about the class they play. Some of this "math" is a perfect example of just how "un" some bards are

http://www.vgbards.com

If this comment was not pointed at me (hard to tell, its just a general snide comment), then please explain the flaw in my math.

No song: hit for 1050 average on same mob type and level over 50 hits.

Song: Hit for 1575 average on same mob type and level over 50 hits.

Where is the flaw in my math? This is an exact gain of 50% damage. The 55% I quoted before was an across the board test, including finishers.

You want to make little asshole comments about my math, go for it. But you better be able to point out why 1575 is *NOT* 50% more than 1050.