[Lord_Bachus]

I tried to compare my mellee DPS from a 28 disciple and a 32 cleric..

While white damage was almost the same, the damage from specials for clerics was almost 3 times as high as the description indicated, while the disciple DPS was slightly lower then indicated in the description.

for example with aprox 200 white dps and equall sprrd weapons a cleric attack with 75% weapon damage + 80 was hitting for over 500, while a disciple attack with weapon damage +90 was hitting for 230. (keep in mind that white DPS was the same for both)

Needles to say that Cleric mellee DPS currently is way higher then disciple.

So either fix the difference between the two or fix the spell discriptions,

[Filroden]

Originally Posted by Lord_Bachus

I tried to compare my mellee DPS from a 28 disciple and a 32 cleric..

While white damage was almost the same, the damage from specials for clerics was almost 3 times as high as the description indicated, while the disciple DPS was slightly lower then indicated in the description.

for example with aprox 200 white dps and equall sprrd weapons a cleric attack with 75% weapon damage + 80 was hitting for over 500, while a disciple attack with weapon damage +90 was hitting for 230. (keep in mind that white DPS was the same for both)

Needles to say that Cleric mellee DPS currently is way higher then disciple.

So either fix the difference between the two or fix the spell discriptions,

1. Thanks for the heads up for another possible bug in cleric melee. I'll try and get some testing done. However, I need more information - a major factor in the differences between 2 character's damage fighting the same mob is the mob's mitigation. If the cleric was 4 levels higher, that alone could explain the difference unless the mob was already grey to both.

2. The size of individual hits is only one factor in calculating DPS - its the frequency of those hits that matters more. What is the crit rate on both those classes?

I'm not doubting your observations, but there is a lack of information to properly test what is going on.

[Gecon]

And the data is unreliable, as we have to believe, in the end, what the program says is happening.

Thats why I rather believe in practical tests - let class A attack mob of race X and class B attack another mob of race X and then look who kills what mob how fast.

[Shtychkn]

Yeah, 4 levels is a major difference depending on the mob your fighting.... PLus you have to know how each class is spec'ed and what gear they are wearing... there are a lot of factors that can effect melee dmg...

[Nelus]

well this is because disciple combat was nerfed and is totaly out of the combat system.

the part of our dmg that is done by the weapon is only about 20% for disciples the rest is our base dmg. so all our skills using weapon dmg% only increase our attack by the amount our weapon affects our dmg.

sample, i have a base hit of 200 and if i uneqiep my weapon i do like 150.
so if i use a skill that has 400% weapon dmg +180 i will do: 150 + 4*50 + 180 = 530.

clerics weapon have alot larger effect on dmg without weapon they dont do any good dmg so their % dmg skills have alot greater dmg. and dont forget cleric meele abilities are recharging twice as fast as disciples.
the same skill and white dmg numbers for a cleric will result in:
50 + 4*150 + 180 = 830
the higher lv and better weapons are used the larger this gap gets.

for some reason as it stands they consider clerics of a much better fighter than disciples thou it should be the other way, a trained fighter should be better than a priest.

btw. 4 lv difference will only affect the chance to hit the mob not the dmg that is done. there is no lv based factor to dmg.

[Shtychkn]

Originally Posted by Nelus

well this is because disciple combat was nerfed and is totaly out of the combat system.

the part of our dmg that is done by the weapon is only about 20% for disciples the rest is our base dmg. so all our skills using weapon dmg% only increase our attack by the amount our weapon affects our dmg.

sample, i have a base hit of 200 and if i uneqiep my weapon i do like 150.
so if i use a skill that has 400% weapon dmg +180 i will do: 150 + 4*50 + 180 = 530.

clerics weapon have alot larger effect on dmg without weapon they dont do any good dmg so their % dmg skills have alot greater dmg. and dont forget cleric meele abilities are recharging twice as fast as disciples.
the same skill and white dmg numbers for a cleric will result in:
50 + 4*150 + 180 = 830
the higher lv and better weapons are used the larger this gap gets.

for some reason as it stands they consider clerics of a much better fighter than disciples thou it should be the other way, a trained fighter should be better than a priest.

btw. 4 lv difference will only affect the chance to hit the mob not the dmg that is done. there is no lv based factor to dmg.

I dont have data to back up my position, so take it for what you will....

But when fighting higher level mobs I do less dmg. But as they become even level I do more dmg.

from my experience in the game I would say that how much dmg a mob mitigates relates directly to it's level vs your level.

[Lord_Bachus]

the test was done for both classes against equall level mobs...

And not just one type of mob...but many different type of mobs, the numbers are not exact figures but estimated vallues, but seeing the huge differences in numbers, no excact measurement is needed to point out the difference.

Even the numbers Nelus gives us are not near the actuall difference.

for excample my cleric finisher that does 300% weapon damage +350 spirit, hits for 1700 (No crit) damage in healer stance while white damage is 200.
I would be expecting numbers like 950 here.

Numbers for disciples are near what to be expected from the discription. take or leave some mitigation on some mobs.

I am not saying that clerics are doing to much damage, i am just pointing out the low damage potential of a disciple. Currently my disciple takes 2 times as long to kill an equall level mob, while both he and the cleric are geared comparable and now level 30 and level 32.

P.S. after the normalisation of wraith touch my Bloodmage (28) has highest DPS again from my 3 healer classes

[Nelus]

the number i give are just an example to point out why the same skill on both classes will result in different dmg.

the higher lv a mob is the more dmg it mitigrates thou better armor and stuff.
but the same mob will not change its mitigration depending on player lv. just the chance to hit a mob is based on lv difference.

[elorei]

Originally Posted by Nelus

but the same mob will not change its mitigration depending on player lv.

Incorrect.

[Laiboch]

Before a lot of this several people ran pars to see who did more damage a cleric or disciple.

The most common result came down to this.

Average auto attack was close to equal fighting the same mob at the same level.

Special attacks were higher on average for a Cleric.

The only advantage the Disciple had was the ability to trigger Crits every 30 seconds. The advantage of the cleric comes down to their Crit chains give them more damage and increases their over all damage with short term buffs.

This was not the case before patch 1. Before that Disciple damage was excellent and well balanced when it came to melee damage. You could tell when the disciple was using their chains. The damage compensated almost perfectly for their lack of utility, but patch 1 ended that for not just the Disciple, but many classes. Sadly it seems the classes most played by the Dev’s were the only ones that didn’t take a massive hit. Go figure.

Game balance in GV as a whole is a joke, and as such the most basic mechanic is flawed. Then again what can someone expect when the dev’s had to effectively hand code everything.