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Old 03-18-2007, 09:38 PM   #1
Dadrin
 
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Default Waited for this game forever...

and when it was released... I went straight to the silkyvenom wiki and checked the PvP server rules.

No item loot = no trip to the game store for me.

From the looks of the posts here, things seem to need a lot of work in VG PvP.

But the question: Do any of you think that in the future, just maybe, there will be a 1 item loot + all coin loot PvP server?
 
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Old 03-18-2007, 10:32 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Dadrin View Post
and when it was released... I went straight to the silkyvenom wiki and checked the PvP server rules.

No item loot = no trip to the game store for me.

From the looks of the posts here, things seem to need a lot of work in VG PvP.

But the question: Do any of you think that in the future, just maybe, there will be a 1 item loot + all coin loot PvP server?
Maybe 1 item and some coin, I sincerely doubt all coin, but I never say never :P
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Old 03-18-2007, 11:26 PM   #3
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I think they should have had a rule on the FFA PvP server where you can take an item that the opposing player is wearing even if it is bound. If it is bound to the other player, you can't unbind it and wear it. It is more of a punishment for losing. Also, people would be less likely to bind if they feel like they have a chance to lose the item and in that case they could wear the item of the opposing player. This would also give a chance for the victor to either not take anything or take something trivial.

99% of the time, taking an item from an opponents pack is worthless.

They really knew how to make a PvP server boring.
 
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Old 03-19-2007, 12:37 AM   #4
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I'm curious since I never played the MMOs with item loot: was it possible to loot an item off of a character directly, as in not in his pack but on his body?
 
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntyThrst View Post
I'm curious since I never played the MMOs with item loot: was it possible to loot an item off of a character directly, as in not in his pack but on his body?
In Ultima Online it was. You could take everything.
 
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Old 03-19-2007, 03:26 AM   #6
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It will be many many many months if ever that VG will implement this; obviously Sigil is more aware than even we are how broken PVP is currently. Most of us don't want any more extra 'punishment' for selecting the wrong class right now.

In the mean time you have many other options! Like others have mentioned UO is the original when it comes to this concept. If you want something a little newer than perhaps Lineage 2 will fit the bill.. though not full item loot there is a chance to drop something. And lastly if you want something that hasn't yet come out than Darkfall is where it's going to be at -- everything drops.

Full item loot is a neat concept but needs proper implementation. For example in Darkfall it won't be the end of the world if you get killed and lose everything since you can be up and running with new bits quickly as everything is easily crafted. The trick is to balance the rewards for the killer and the loses for the victim to keep both interested no matter which side they may end up on at any given time.
 
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:12 AM   #7
Dadrin
 
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I spent a lot of time on the official VG forums lobbying for 1 item + all coin loot.

I really know nothing about the economic dynamics of this game, and if people think all coin loot is too harsh, all I can say is, that may be.

But I refuse to play an MMO if there is no PvP, and I refuse to PvP in an MMO if you cannot loot at least one item from your opponent upon victory.

I'm no sadist, I just love the importance that ruleset places on your stuff. I love having travel gear and I love preserving my best stuff for the deep dungeon - away from the risk of PK.

My first MMO was Everquest, and I played a non-PvP server for a while and liked it.

Needless to say, as soon as PvP came out, I was there and not glancing back. What I am hoping is that Sigil takes care of whatever PvP problems they need to take care of to make the system work, and then to come out with a server that is a bit more hardcore than what is out now.

I am willing to wait.
 
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Old 03-19-2007, 12:38 PM   #8
Brok_The_Fanatic
 
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It seems they could do what you ask. I'd say you'll have to wait and see.

1) They'd need more players. There really are not all that many that enjoy truly hardcore PvP
2) PvP itself needs work on balance and other issues, these will happen, but probably will take 3-6 montsh before VG is reasonable

I don't think what you ask for will appear in AoC or WH or any other upcoming PvP game that I know of. That kind of hardcore PvP is pretty much frowned upon.

I could potentially see VG allowing looting of grey drops out of a person's inventory but I can't see what you ask for ever happening.
 
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brok_The_Fanatic View Post
It seems they could do what you ask. I'd say you'll have to wait and see.

1) They'd need more players. There really are not all that many that enjoy truly hardcore PvP
2) PvP itself needs work on balance and other issues, these will happen, but probably will take 3-6 montsh before VG is reasonable

I don't think what you ask for will appear in AoC or WH or any other upcoming PvP game that I know of. That kind of hardcore PvP is pretty much frowned upon.

I could potentially see VG allowing looting of grey drops out of a person's inventory but I can't see what you ask for ever happening.


All we can do is wait and see.

Sigil has officially announced that they want Item loot in PvP but they haven't worked out the details yet.


All we know so far from the Beta5 PvP forums:

1. That such a hardcore system would not be retrofitted to an existing PvP server.

2. At least one DEV hopes the system will be FULL LOOT of all items

3. Sigil feels badly that they have to wait until after the major bug fixing before they can work on the PvP rulesets but it is considered a priority.
 
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:38 PM   #10
Bregalad
 
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Vanguard has item binding. Means pretty much any piece of gear can be made soulbound. Binding an item makes it stay with you when you die. As in, you repop at altar, item is on YOU - not on your corpse(tombstone). Sulbound items are not transferrable to other players.

This system is fairly central to Vanguard's overall death system. Which means it is not likely to change. It also makes item loot idea pretty much stillborn. Everyone binds all their gear, making it unlootable. (Can't be lootable cause then people would use PvP to transfer soulbound stuff). So, they can no longer sell it. But they won't lose it to a PK either. People WILL bind. On Rallos in EQ1, it was NODROP items that were more sought after due to unlootability. And when LDoN launched, and allowed any item made NODROP by adding a cheap augmentation, everyone bound everything, effectively removing item loot from the game.

So, what adding item loot will do in VG PvP? Everything valuable will get bound, so Joe the Adventurer will be able to trot around in his best gear without a worry in the world, and Jack the Ganker won't have a chance to get his grubby hands on anything good. Oh, and the server economy will be fairly borked, too.
 
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:48 PM   #11
Wreatched
 
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Despite all of this, there WAS a post by a dev during beta 5 that stated that after release they WOULD have an item loot server(Even possibly full loot). However, that said, with all of the BAJILLIONS of other issues at the moment, im not holding my breath anymore. See my post in these forums requesting an ETA and getting nil response, hell, im not even sure the devs read this pvp shit.



W
 
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:54 PM   #12
Dadrin
 
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Thanks for the info guys, its really helpful for me as someone totally removed from the game. I didn't know about the soulbinding aspect, but hopefully in the future there can be some way around that aspect of the game's dynamics that will allow at least 1 item loot upon PvP death feasible.

EQ was my favorite videogame of all time, and the only MMO I ever played. I feel like the PvP server I played on (race wars) was responsible for that stature.

I know that when I started EQ PvP didn't even exist. So perhaps PvP in VG is a bit muffed right now, but my hope is that in the future, when it is balanced or fixed or whatever, someone will make a place for people like me.
 
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:02 PM   #13
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A full equipment (not inventory) loot server with binding of armor/weapons would be my ticket. It really is a choice, i mean this awesome sword of uberness is pretty cool, i should bind it, but then i cant sell it for 2g on the broker when i outgrow it.

This actually doesnt mess up the economy, it enlivens it. With people binding their gear there are less hand-me-downs, and crafters have more business.

The only reason I say no inventory loot is because well, I'm a sissy. I can deal with dying in pvp and losing my armor if I didn't bind it. But if I'm out collecting 147 dragon talons, and someone ganks me when im low hp on my last one, and takes all my dragon talons back to the quest giver, oh man.

I'd be pissed.
 
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:33 PM   #14
Bregalad
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadrin View Post
I know that when I started EQ PvP didn't even exist. So perhaps PvP in VG is a bit muffed right now, but my hope is that in the future, when it is balanced or fixed or whatever, someone will make a place for people like me.
IIRC, Rallos Zek was there from launch. EQ launched mid-March 1999, I started in May 1999 and Rallos already had an established community, and even had one guild (Peace of Formosa) already banned due to rampant PvP exploiting.
 
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:39 PM   #15
Dadrin
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post
IIRC, Rallos Zek was there from launch. EQ launched mid-March 1999, I started in May 1999 and Rallos already had an established community, and even had one guild (Peace of Formosa) already banned due to rampant PvP exploiting.
Oh, I thought Vallon and Tallon were the first. I guess they were just the first RaceWar servers.

Race restrictions on PvP are the best for implementing some order to the system. They work great for immersion too.

I know that in Tallon and Vallon despite the fact that "good" races like elves and dwarves could attack one another, that was abandoned in large scale due to agreement among the community. I think the race restrictions of the server had a lot to do with that.

Still hoping Vanguard will have a 1 item + all coin RaceWar server for me to play on some day, or if not, another game that is similar (races/worldsize/artistic effect).
 
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