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Old 05-04-2012, 04:10 PM   #1
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Default Dynamic event example video

This is an outstanding video that really shows some of the complexity and depth that even the newbie-area dynamic events contain. Watch as the story plays out in front of you...as the narrarator follows each NPC separately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes

Hopefully this will help folks that were having a hard time wrapping their head around the system, and how it's SO different from public quests and things in other games.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:56 PM   #2
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Omg I didn't realise there was so much stuff going on behind the scenes.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzik View Post
This is an outstanding video that really shows some of the complexity and depth that even the newbie-area dynamic events contain. Watch as the story plays out in front of you...as the narrarator follows each NPC separately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes

Hopefully this will help folks that were having a hard time wrapping their head around the system, and how it's SO different from public quests and things in other games.
Yeah I actually followed the kid with the rams head too to see how it ended.
 
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:00 PM   #4
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I think we're going to find as we dig into the game that even we, with our open minds and optimistic view of the game, have been thinking about this game all wrong. We're still at least a little bit stuck with our WoW goggles on...seeing what we were seeing through the filter of our past experiences and our comfortable play habits. I think this game requires several layers of "deprogramming" before it can be appreciated for what it is.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:45 PM   #5
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Oh please don't say WoW goggles. I absolutely took WoW for what it was as soon as I played it.

I remember the endless posts in EQ of the casuals up in arms because they couldn't get a group,couldn't get good gear. The whole hardcore have no lives etc... today it is equivalent to the haters of the rich by occupiers.

WoW gave them all the things the casuals cried for and these were the same folks who yelled this is boring after finishing 3 weeks of content and gear standing around their respective cities.

I never see anything in WoW or compare anything to WoW because I knew when I played it the effect of what the game was about to do to the industry. It's like George Clinton used to say "If you give the people what they want, then they want it all the time" Thats where we have been for 8 years as you put it they have been feeding us all cake because people like cake right? Sure for a bit but not forever. Now you got a buncha people with rotten teeth that can't even bite into a nice juicy steak because its to hard to chew or even think about attempting anything with texture.

Sorry about the rant but I hate WoW comparisons it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. WoW did exactly what it was designed to do and it did it very well BUT it ruined the industry for a long time. That is what angered me.

GW2 is the totally new and innovative game I have dreamed of. I like innovation not copycats. Like in this day and age if one thing works you are inundated with it 10 fold for years till you vomit.

I love the surprises that GW2 brings and the logical way it challenges you as a gamer and the extra mile they go to do it.This shows in the above video very well.

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Old 05-04-2012, 06:33 PM   #6
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Some of my previously WoW addicted friends had a real hard time adjusting to GW2. Some of them are so uber they adapted right away, but there are some who just didn't get it.

Part of the problem is that they didn't read anything about the game before playing it. I didn't read much on purpose, but I at least knew the intention to do away with the holy trinity etc. Another issue was no tutorial, and another issue was that us Euros literally couldn't log in at all on Friday night and most of Saturday. I stayed up all night so I could play it but everyone else only really got to play properly on the Sunday.

The problem they had, is that they just treated it exactly like WoW.... and it really backfired. There were three major issues I identified, which they had, and I was too tired to think up a subtle way to tell them that they need to learn to play the game better So I just ended up watching them fail most of the time. But these are the three major issues they had:

1) They didn't use the map. The map is a little bit intimidating at first glance, especially if you are the type who instantly clicks to get rid of anything that pops up (including cutscenes). But without the map the game is basically unplayable. They started randomly exploring and pretty soon they ended up fighting level 10 mobs at level 5. We managed to kill some but pretty soon the deaths started happening. I had to just insist that we moved somewhere else. But when we start playing together properly, they REALLY need to learn to use the map. I'm going to have to insist that they start referring to it regularly (like I do) or I'm just not going to group with them. Exploring is great, but wandering randomly where the wind takes you is just a waste of time.

2) They also didn't quite come to terms with the quests/events. For example when we were 'trying' to kill the level 10 mobs, I said that we should go somewhere easier, and one of them said, "But I have a quest to kill this stuff, lets press on." I said ok, because it kind of cought me off guard because the game is new to me too. But later on I realised that you don't actually get the 'quest', you just go somewhere and the quest is already there waiting for you. So he should have just gone somewhere else, done other events and got a few more levels and then headed back to the tougher area a little later.

3) The last major issue they had, is that some of them were still trying to play the combat like WoW. The warrior in particular, was trying to tank. He would pull mobs with the bow and it would run to him, me (as rogue) and the other mages would all start blasting and running around using our ranged damage, and the warrior was desperately trying to tank it, but the mob just ripped him to shreds. At one point he said it's hard with no healer, and someone said he needs to dodge more, but again, it's kinda hard to tell someone that they need to play the game a totally different way.

But hopefully time will solve these issues. They will eventually realise that nobody tanks and nobody heals, and we all need to dive around like action heroes, not WoW Warriors.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:42 PM   #7
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Lol, just after posting that ^ I was talking to someone on the phone and they told me about a video on youtube showing a "Hard Dungeon" crawl done by that Total Biscuit guy.

And the video talks EXACTLY about what I was saying. So I'm just going to link this video to everyone I know

This is btw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IM2r...feature=g-vrec
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzik View Post
This is an outstanding video that really shows some of the complexity and depth that even the newbie-area dynamic events contain. Watch as the story plays out in front of you...as the narrarator follows each NPC separately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyqGJHTjes

Hopefully this will help folks that were having a hard time wrapping their head around the system, and how it's SO different from public quests and things in other games.
Extended quests (a term I think applies better than dynamic events) are interesting. I enjoyed them when I experienced them in Skyrim. They aren't as interesting if you are not the one following the main thread. I can see a guy standing in front of the farm wondering why a large group of bears attack.

It reminds me of some of the hype from Rift. There were some events that required more than just killing things. It was suppose to make players "think" and get people to work in teams to follow the reason behind the dynamic event, but all too often players killed the NPCs and then wondered things did not progress or called the content broken.
 
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:45 PM   #9
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Not that it didn't spawn some great discussion...but I think you may have taken what I said the wrong way. I wasn't trying to insult anyone, I was totally talking about myself as well. I was just saying that we've all developed an understanding of these games based on what's come before...based on the types of mechanics we've seen over the last decade. That's all.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:01 PM   #10
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Yeah, it's basically a whole new generation of game. To me this is only the start of the 3rd generation. I reckon EQ and UO and DAOC (and some others) were like the first generation. And then WoW was the second generation which looked at EQ and made a very casual and accessible version of it for the whole family, and then pretty much every other game since then has done it the WoW way too. So as far as I'm concerned, that's still just the second generation.

GW2 is finally a new generation, finally a whole new leap forward, and it's cool because the entire genre has now finally matured. Previously nobody knew much because the entire genre was so new. The majority of players in fact, knew nothing outside of WoW. Some of us hardcore and elder geeks had seen UO and EQ and DAOC before WoW, but even that isn't exactly a lot. None of us have ever played a game quite like this before (the nearest I ever played is probably a single player fighting game called Oni), so it's like every MMORPG player now has a whole new perspective to view things.

Besides all the clever stuff like dynamic quests and holy trinity removal etc, for me the most amazing thing is that there seems to basically be zero concern with the fact that the game is played online now... Back with EQ, there wasn't all that much twitchy stuff because the technology just wasn't there and games since then have always made excuses about things like latency. With GW2, it's indistinguishable from a really good single player, offline, action game. You can instantly dodge and throw stuff wherever you want it, and it all happens in real time.

But yeah, I think this has lots of new stuff for us to learn and get used to. And I bet that in a year from now, everyone will take it all for granted But I will remember that this was a changing point. To me the MMORPG genre has now made single player RPG's totally obsolete. They have detailed stories and amazing combat and voice acting and everything you would want from an RPG, only you play it with thousands of other people too. I don't think games like The Witcher and the Elder Scrolls games can even compete with something this accomplished.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzik View Post
Not that it didn't spawn some great discussion...but I think you may have taken what I said the wrong way. I wasn't trying to insult anyone, I was totally talking about myself as well. I was just saying that we've all developed an understanding of these games based on what's come before...based on the types of mechanics we've seen over the last decade. That's all.
Oh I wasn't insulted Just WoW comparisons tend to anger me inside. I even hate when I'm in a new game and I see in world chat comparisons to WoW, I don't even know why it fills me with so much anger. I guess because I feel cheated that because of that game I was cheated of all the games that could have been great like GW2 for 8 years.

I hope that GW2 is a great success BUT I don't want to see companies make a bunch of bad GW2 clones either for the next 8 years if it is successful.

I'm sorry if I came of harsh it isn't directed at you personally Fozzik. I hope GW2 puts WoW to bed for good though. I will be glad to see the dusk of that one fade into darkness.
 
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:26 PM   #12
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Yeah no kidding. I can't even stomach to think of all the amazing games we would have had if it wasn't for WoW. I remember how exciting the industry looked around 2001 or so. Games like Horizons, Dark & Light, Ascheron's Call 1/2, DAOC, etc. Some made it some didn't but it was an exciting time to see the genre moving forward. Then WoW came along, turned in to a juggernaut, and killed off pretty much everything.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:41 PM   #13
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It'll come back, it just took a lot longer than it might have for the genre to move forward. In other ways, you could say that it was a good thing that WoW's shadow was so long...bringing that massive audience and money stream into the genre has lead to dramatically more games getting made, and a TON more money being spent on making truly massive-budget games.

So far, those massive budgets have mostly be squandered on formulaic tripe...but just wait. I think now that it's the norm to spend as much money on these games as a blockbuster feature film, when truly excellent, original, and creative folks get ahold of that type of money they will do great things with it (as we're seeing with ArenaNet). I'm sure when we were all playing EQ back in 2000...we were probably dreaming and hoping for a virtual world where NPCs lived out real stories in front of us and came alive so much more than was possible at the time.

The future is coming.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:57 PM   #14
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Yeah exactly. I think it might be a good thing in the long term because the 10+ million!!!! people who played WoW, will presumably want to go somewhere else as WoW ages ever older. Having an audience that big, adds so much more seriousness and budget to genre. It might make it harder for indie projects to keep competitive, but it at least means that with stuff like GW2 - they can justify spending millions and millions to make it so epic, because they know just how big the audience could potentially be.

I think it was a set back in a lot of ways though. With those old games I mentioned, I got a real sense of creativity and out-of-the-box thinking and they were all based in the realm of hardcoreness too. I bet we could have had some amazing stuff. I bet it would have been low budget and buggy at first and probably not that great looking, but in terms of gameplay, I bet we would have had some mind blowing stuff. Like a DAOC 2 or something, with a world bigger than Vanguard and 6 different realms/factions with some players acting as spies infiltrating each other to find information, and perhaps sabataging city construction and stuff like that. Like a more accessable EVE in a medieval fantasy world etc.. but with boat loads of depth and complexity.

But yeah, whats done is done and at least GW2 suggests a brighter future now anyway. Better late than never. With some luck we might end up with those same ideas coming back again, but now with the gigantic budgets these games get.

p.s. and imagine how funny and ironic it would be if it came from Blizzard
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:00 PM   #15
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Yeah GW2 definitely brought back the hope in spades for me. I was actually feeling as though MMO's would no longer be worth it as a hobby anymore.
Every lame ass beta after beta had me saying "OMG not this stupidity again!" and I have been in a hell of a lot the past 8 years.

I see the light at the end of the tunnel and you know what? If Blizzard wants to make another game and it has challenge I will play it even though I hate the WoW game itself if they made a more hardcore game I'm all over it.

You see it really wasn't WoWs fault really for making the waaah babies paradise, they just capitalized on it. The game companies that tried to copy it for the past 8 years are to blame really. If a game company would have been bright enough to say "Ok WoW is hooking the newbies into the genre they're like Kindergarten for MMO players, maybe we can make the high school or college grade game and challenge players" Then we would have been taken care of BUT NO! They went the "lets try to do what WoW does better." and we have been stuck in that cycle all this time because of it.

I'm glad even though it took so long it is now here and I hope GW2 gets all the damn money it rightfully deserves. I may buy $30 bucks of item shop shit a month just because they deserve it. They certainly do in my book anyway.
 
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:26 PM   #16
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Ditto. I reckon its going to be a huge success just on box sales too. I bet they will sell many millions of copies eventually.
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