[Aruspex - SGO]

Hi guys!

Recently ol' Glip let me out of my cube for a few minutes so I've been dropping by my favorite fan sites to say hi and thank you all for the support you've been giving us as we march our way to launch.

If any of you need anything... diplomatic... let me know.

o
A

[Labyrrinth]

Aruspex Hi there and welcome to the SV boards! I hope this is the first post of many from you

Give this ol' group time and I'm sure they'll come up with a bunch of Diplomat type questions

[rabb1t]

/wave

You only did Admire, Boast, and Jest. You forgot Coerce.

(Um, any and all Dip info would be good, since I basically know nothing about the system despite reading everything there is on it. )

Originally Posted by Labyrrinth

Give this ol' group time and I'm sure they'll come up with a bunch of Diplomat type questions

I think we have a bunch in the Dip interview thread.

[Labyrrinth]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

I think we have a bunch in the Dip interview thread.

Yea we do I've faith we can revisit them here, add to them, expand upon them, and then given our history, properly derail the thread

[Skarlath]

Hey there Aruspex!

That Glip sure sounds like a slave driver - I don't envy Elrar for that! (Okay, that's a lie. Very jealous of his new job. ) It's great to have you stop by to say hello though! As Laby said - I'm sure we can rustle up a few questions that you might be able to answer for people. Atoyota ran a poll recently about what spheres people are most excited about, and Diplomacy did pretty well for a sphere we know so little about. I for one am definitely looking forward to what you guys can do with it - it all sounds very exciting.

I've got one quick question that doesn't require you spilling sauce all over the sand though:

When creating the diplomacy system, do you attempt any roleplaying to really get a good look at the dance of discussion? Y'know - stage discussions in different scenarios to look at how people really go about coming out top in a discussion.

Whenever I think about diplomacy I always end up thinking that I can't get my head around exactly what the components of a discussion are and how they play against each other. It must be a fairly confusing job trying to map out the verbal art, so i'm sure arguing with Glip about stolen sweets, or watching how Brad convinces the entire Sigil staff to make a game when instead they could be shooting eachother with rubber bands, would really allow for close examination of how things do/should work.

You've opened up the floodgates now, though. All those questions I've had on the back of my mind about diplomacy are going to come flooding out! Run for your lives!!

[Tarkas]

any/all dip info would be great seeing as I'm going PSI(haven't decided race yet), ADV/DIP. I wonder if your "class" can help you in anyway .... mmmm.

[Fozzik]

Originally Posted by Aruspex

...so I've been dropping by my favorite fan sites...

So... which fansites are not your favorite?

We must stand alone at the top.

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by Skarlath

Whenever I think about diplomacy I always end up thinking that I can't get my head around exactly what the components of a discussion are and how they play against each other.

I forget which class introduced me to it, but I think it falls under Philosophy. I don't recall all the terms, but it basically boiled all arguments down into either 8 or 12 concepts - things like point, counter point, logical fallacy, slippery slope, etc. - and from those descriptors you could analyze any argument/debate.

I'm sure the Sigil staff took that as the basis, and designed the Diplomacy system around that, in particular making sure skills linked to particular concepts, branching out from there.

Logical Fallacy connects to some of the concepts from that class, but if I recall that is only one or two 'branches' which come off of the core concepts.

Originally Posted by Tarkas

I wonder if your "class" can help you in anyway .... mmmm.

I'd hope certain dip styles are not class limited, but that they would be class influenced.

Suppose a Paladin tries to take 'Thuggish'. As a Paladin they would receive -10 to this style, whereas a Rogue may receive +10. This way cross Diplomacy styles would not be completely absent from the game, but they would be discouraged, as someone from that class would not normally act that way.

Things I suppose I'm most curious about...

• Will certain styles / class combos give you access to special content? (I think this was addressed already) - As example 'Courtly' style combined with Paladin or Cleric would allow for church access. Inside the church you could find healers or venders who sell healing related items at reduced costs compared to outside.

• Will certain areas focus on one particular style? - As example, the Pirate controlled outpost would focus on 'Thuggish' and nearly all other diplomacy styles would be absent from this area. As such, this would be a 'safe haven' for those of that style, and peeps would be encouraged to always group with someone of that style. (For NPC bonuses.) (This would also become a focal point for those of like mind (in terms of dip) to gather together and learn as it was, giving an alternate focal point, one based on dip, compared to a combat based hub.)

• Will certain NPCs give access to quests based on this? (Again, this may have been addressed ) - Say... one NPC will offer the 'Thuggish' follower an assassination mission, but only if their faction is x or higher.

• Will Combat include the possibility for diplomacy? - Say you are assaulting a Pirate ship, you happen upon the ship's cook. The cook doesn't want to be killed, so he offers to debate with you about it. Someone with 'Thuggish' may be able to convince the cook to let the party pass without fighting, allowing them passage through a secret tunnel, while 'failing' the diplomacy battle would force the party down a different path where they have to engage in combat. A particular dip style is mentioned as I'd hope the game would have things like this to encourage a mix of dip styles in a similar way that combat encourages different classes.

• Will diplomacy be intertwined with things like guild function? - Say like, a certain level or higher diplomat is required in the group to even start a guild, and a far greater level would be required to get a guild land plot, and an even higher one to establish a guild house.

• Will it be possible to take diplomacy to a level where it can compensate for a reduction in other areas? As example, I will probably play a Paladin as my main character. I see Paladins as typically a people who heavily focus on Adventure and Diplomacy, and focus very little on crafting. The two high-skills would be something I see as something which allows them to get the third one covered in a round about way at a basic level. Like, because they Adventure a lot they may have more gold, and because they are skilled Diplomats they can convince guild NPCs to give them a better deal on crafted items, thus they don't need to craft themselves as the combination of the two allow them to compensate for the third, by buying vendor goods at lower cost, thus eliminating the need to do crafting themselves (for basic items such as potions, etc.). - I don't know, I see why you'd want peeps to do all 3, but I've never been interested in crafting and I just don't see Pally, as a class, in a historical context, that focuses on a 3 way balance.

Um... guess that's all my brain can come up with. It's like 85f+ here, so my brain is cooking atm.

[Niborea]

/wave Aruspex - nice to see devs dropping by the fan sites now and again

As for a diplomacy question...is it harder to take Glip serious when he's pantless? since I believe it was mentioned clothing will make a difference

[Aruspex - SGO]

Well obviously I can't answer EVERY question, and I'm mostly concerned with letting folks know that we're hard at work on Diplomacy and that there's a lot we'd like to tell you when the time comes.

When thinking about how to make a game out of argument and discussion, my personal job was more on the "real world" side of things - how does manipulating THIS number represent a discussion? How about THIS one representing winning a discussion?

It turns out that just like making numbers out of conversation, we already make numbers out of a lot of stuff. How well does a shirt protect me from dragonfire? How about chain mail?

So you can apply this to Diplomacy. How well does a comment about your mother work on you? How about a careful listing of evidence for my cause? How about if I hit on you a little first?

Possibilities are endless.

o
A

[greymain]

Hi there Aruspex

Having played Oblivion which has a very simple form of diplomacy where it takes the form of a mini game, will Vanguards diplomacy be a more sophisticated version?

I wonder how your status in a diplomatic encounter will be displayed. A dial with "love" on one end and "hate" at the other and a needle moving between them? perhaps a series of sliding bars or will it be a sequence of messages "x is looking scared of you"

Will you be able to tell an NPC's attitude to you before entering into Diplomatic battle with them?

[Doddy]

G'day Aruspex (again)

Ok, a really esoteric question from Doddy:

Will a piece of dialogue be given to you all at once, or will the text be revealed word by word or letter by letter as in a real conversation?

Basically, will you be able to read ahead of the dialogue and see where your opponent is going with the conversation, and perhaps interrupt him or her?

A more general question: will there be a merchant/haggle skill or some way to influence prices at NPC vendors? Idara is a merchant isn't she, and her stories are supposed to be representing diplomacy, so I thought it may be in. Plus, crafters and adventurers will be making a lot of money, so I wanted to know if you could become a wealthy diplomat.

If so, will haggling be involving the player? As in, will the price adjust automatically or will you need to engage in some price-related parley to get a bargain?

Thanks in advance.

[Atoyota]

Originally Posted by Aruspex - SGO

Possibilities are endless.

o
A

Ahhh... the possibilities ...

That's the exciting part! (difficult yes)
It's worth the effort, it can be so much!

[Spirit]

I'd really like to see some video of a diplomatic battle, or maybe a chat log of sorts so I can see the process and where you guys are going with this. All I'm aware of right now is that it's got possibilities, scope, lots of promise etc. Not saying it has none of these things -- but I have nothing I can get my teeth into and relate to. Loads of ideas, but nothing real.

Can you throw something our way that we can see working? Adventuring, got a stack load of screenies and videos, tradeskilling, well it's an open book really. But diplomacy is still something most of us can only guess.

Whether you're able to throw something together or not (and I understand if you cannot), thanks for stopping by!

[rabb1t]

Here is a question that has come up a few times... though this isn't Vanguard diplomacy related, I suppose you could say it is community diplomacy related... Since Glip officially closed investigation I've snuck the question onto the OVF about 3 times, but it has been ignored each time ...

Q:
There are a ton of us on the OVF who are in the "prior to November 15th '05" sign up period, yet for whatever reason we never got our "guarenteed beta app".
Was anything ever going to be done about that?
Was Sigil going to ever reopen investigations at any point?

I don't know about others, but I know I've had the beta app emails in my 'good filter' since they announced them, so it couldn't be I missed the email. (Unless for some reason it never got to me.) (And I actually don't have things auto-deleted, I get every email that is sent to me.) There are lots of others who seem to be in the same position.

I think a lot of us in that position went out and got the CGM to sort of band-aid over that boo-boo and were wondering if the boo-boo would ever be taken care of.

[bylogic]

Originally Posted by Aruspex - SGO

Hi guys!

... as we march our way to launch.

I can't believe no one else picked up on this...Its so clear..

[Aruspex - SGO]

Originally Posted by bylogic

I can't believe no one else picked up on this...Its so clear..

Wow. Now I have truly been misquoted in every way possible.

o
A

[Dreamer]

I'm sure I'll get myself into trouble here.

Of course, I don't know what's been cooked for diplomacy by the good people at Sigil. But I'm a little concerned about what it is that makes diplomacy interesting.

To me, having the skill, experience, foresight, etc. to accurately read your opponent's position and predict your opponent's arguments is MUCH more interesting than theoretical argument structure. Flashes of insight into the way a person thinks, and therefore understanding them and some of their motivations, and coming to a beneficial result is really the essence of communication.

How is this intuitive "feel" for communication translated to diplomacy gameplay?

[Ieranii]

/wave Aruspex

Any and all exposure for diplomacy is a lovely thing. Good to see you out and about.

[rabb1t]

He's out exposing himself?!?

I'll pass. I like girls.