how is pally tanking?

vynde · 02-10-2007, 03:59 PM

i heard they have made some changes to the mobs, and endurance costs for the tanks. so how is the paladins tanking ability compared to the DK and warrior now? is it hard to keep agro?

Thregin · 02-10-2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vynde

i heard they have made some changes to the mobs, and endurance costs for the tanks. so how is the paladins tanking ability compared to the DK and warrior now? is it hard to keep agro?

yes our aggro sucks ass...it sucked ass before, then they increased the cost of our main taunt (guardians assault) from 9 to 26 endurance so now our aggro sucks even more.

Teldath · 02-11-2007, 12:42 AM

yeah pallys are very weak on the aggro front, but in survivability we are the best.

EonBlue · 02-11-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teldath

yeah pallys are very weak on the aggro front, but in survivability we are the best.

As I cleric I usually end up tanking 50% of the time when there is a paly. I find them annoying to group with unless there are two *other* healers. I purposely build as much aggro as possible because if i don't take it when the paly can't take it from me other classes tend to get it.

I have found that at lvl 24(22?) I believe they get a buff which reduces other peoples melee aggro by 20% and that seemed to make all the difference in the world.

That being said th BEST group ive ever had was a paly/cleric/shm/bmg/ranger/bard group. Hands down the best.

Bad paly's suck A LOT.
Good ones are quite nice to have along.

Miggy · 02-11-2007, 09:08 AM

Have to agree, in a group last night the Warrior was holding aggro almost permanently while I didn't get a look in, but when my group wiped I was the last to die because of the million and one ways a Dwarf Paladin has of staying alive.

Xer'la'oth · 02-11-2007, 10:59 AM

so...my paladin is 10 and i want to tank, should i reroll? not really interested in warrior, guess dread knight would be my choice...but i'd rather not if i can viably tank as a paladin.

vynde · 02-11-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xer'la'oth

so...my paladin is 10 and i want to tank, should i reroll? not really interested in warrior, guess dread knight would be my choice...but i'd rather not if i can viably tank as a paladin.

this is my dilemma too, although i havent started my paladin yet. everyone tells me to roll whichever one looks like fun, but being laughed out of groups is not fun. this is coming from my experiences in WoW where warriors had the best tanking tools and the paladins were forced to offheal/mainheal.

how is dk in terms of tanking? do higher level mobs resist the dks DC and other debuffs? usually raidbosses resist some debuffs

Xer'la'oth · 02-11-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vynde

this is my dilemma too, although i havent started my paladin yet. everyone tells me to roll whichever one looks like fun, but being laughed out of groups is not fun. this is coming from my experiences in WoW where warriors had the best tanking tools and the paladins were forced to offheal/mainheal.

Same thing for me, exactly. I got a Paladin to 55 and quit, and later leveled a Warrior to 60 (realized then it wasn't the game for me). Apparently now Paladins are fine tanks, and Druids... but anyway, yeah. Gonna try a DK to 10 or so.

Varro · 02-11-2007, 11:25 PM

I currently have a 21 Pally and I can maintain agro no problem. Once in a while I will lose aggro due to a druid or sorcerer getting a big hit, but I can use one of the taunts and easily get aggro back.

I grouped with a warrior once and he continually lost aggro.

So if anyone is having a problem holding aggro as a Pally you may want to check you strategy.

Varro

Multiplex · 02-12-2007, 03:45 AM

A Warrior should really never lose aggro...

I'm a War and when I group with Pallys I usually have to step in and help out because they lose aggro a lot when the big DPS classes go all out on damage.

I'm lower level though so things may change over time.

Shawnsan · 02-12-2007, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xer'la'oth

so...my paladin is 10 and i want to tank, should i reroll? not really interested in warrior, guess dread knight would be my choice...but i'd rather not if i can viably tank as a paladin.

All tanks bring viable ways to tank to the group.

And all of them are more or less fun to play depending on your skill level with tanking.

I play in a fairly static 4 some that is a Shaman, Paladin, Dreadknight(me) and Bard.

We have a lovely dynamic whereby the DK pulls (Chains is wonderous at slowing mutlis) and the Paladin will "rescue" me for a free heal when I get back. This allows our shaman to slow, and apply other debuffs, and the paladin and I trade agro back and forth depending mostly on crit rate.

Play what is a) fun for you and b) you are most effective with.

Then let the cards fall where they may.

Forshal · 02-13-2007, 11:45 AM

I play a 15 pally in a sham/dru/pal static trio. Around 10 and the following few levels, I noticed having some trouble with the druid pulling aggro quite often. After I got Guardian's Assault and developed a good strategy, I've since had very little trouble holding aggro, if any at all. And the druid LOVES to dump all of his mana within the first 5 seconds of the encounter, heh. I don't consider this an issue, though. Quite often I'll purposely let the druid lose aggro so I can rescue him, doing some pretty mighty damage, or healing him (but I usually go for the damage). Rescues can be very powerful.

I've had very limited experience in a full group, so I can't attest to that. The few times we've had a full group, I don't recall having any issues.

bakavic · 02-13-2007, 12:11 PM

I'm level 22, and I don't have much issue with tanking. Sure, I might lose it once in a while, but most of the time that is due to a dps class going all out when it isn't necessary and not using their hate lowering tools.

Kyin · 02-13-2007, 02:20 PM

Ok I am a 23 wolf shaman and our MT from EQ2 rolled a pally because they were suppose to be the most Def. based tank. And they are but.

Hate>def.

Pallies have dismal ways of getting agro, and they get better ones late in the game but they either cost Virtue points or are finishers.

The pallies Def. stance does not increase hate gain at all like the other 2 tank classes meaning that their taunt and hate skills do 30% hate as the other 2.

Now the tank I play with made it to 21, when we had alot of trouble doing things we shouldnt have had trouble with.

With the pally tank I ended up tanking all the time. The reason is their DPS is much much lower than the other 2 tanks, and their hate gain is lower as well. Now I would like to see what a 24 pally could do, but with the hate gain that they have it caps the group on what they could do. A war or a DK could run in and grab hate and never loose it while everyone goes all out. A pally group will have to slowly pull 1 at a time and cap damage to insure they do not grab agro because if they do its over. Yes, you could rescue but if rescue fails then your healer/dps is dead.

Regardless of if you can tank as a paladin, or if you have no problem or a lot of problems the class is unbalanced when compared to the other two tanks. If they were given more hate, or more dps, or if Virtue was much eaiser to gain then all would be balanced, but currently it is not.

That being said, our MT has rerolled a warrior and is now 13, hes already found that keeping agro is much easier based off of DPS alone. I find it sad that with the 3 tanks that they agro management is not equal. Which is the keystone to making all tanks do their job equally. Flavor afterward all you want with life taps, heals and battle orders, it doesnt matter, what matters is that you can grab agro and keep it 90% of the time equally. Rescues should be for adds, and Spike DPS, not the sole way to tank.

garath · 02-13-2007, 02:22 PM

As a healer I can say that I generally don't see any great disparity between tanks. I think its more a question of how a person plays his or her class as opposed to the class itself.

I was in a group with a warrior that was getting torn up like he was made of paper and he couldn't hold aggro if his life depended on it. Worked for me, the bard was taking damage better than him. Later that day I grouped a warrior that I didn't have to stress too much keeping the dps healed. He was holding aggro fine.

The best tank I've played with so far was a paladin. I grouped with him for almost 5 hours and he held aggro very well. Only once in awhile a monk or sorcerer would pull it off him. I really enjoyed his healing ability as a supplement too. He was capable of assisting in the real bad pulls and we came out of it on top more than once.

GiggsBeckham11 · 02-13-2007, 04:24 PM

agree with the OP.

Each tank is viable and can do a great job at holding aggro and generalyl doing his job. However, it takes skill in Vanguard to be good. It also takes good gear.

It won't matter that you made it to lvl 50 solo'ing but never got great gear. You won't be able to be effective at mitigating without uber armor.

As a paladin I find myself constantly having to appraise and re-appraise a battle. You have to make sure you hold aggro. If you lose it you have to move quickly to get a rescue in and get it back. You have to know all of your skills and use them appropriately, not just spam a few and hope it works out. There is a time and place for every skill and knowing when and how to use those in a timely fashion makes ALL the difference in a tanks skill.

THen, on top of the tank being knowledgable and generally "good", the group has to be smart. No matter how good of a tank you think you are...if a DPS class blasts away with all he has got you will lose aggro. PERIOD. So, it is also the domain of the group to know their places and act accordingly.

That is why I love this game. Some people seem to think that the combat is mindless. They sure aren't playing the same game as me. If they are mindless in the game they are probably not that effective.

Trit1 · 02-15-2007, 03:31 PM

i think that whoever is behind the keyboard will determine how well you tank. if you are having problems holding aggro as a paladin then maybe you should try to change up your strategy. as a 15 pally i have 3 taunts and 2 rescues and think i do a very good job tanking. hardly ever lose aggro and if i do quick rescue and its right back. i seem to really shine on multiple pulls when the fit hits the shan. heals, multiple rescues, and multiple taunts, pallys just do very well overall. i actually enjoy having someone else pull and using rescue right away to get aggro. it is obviously a huge hate producer and it starts you out with a high damage shot on the mob. but even when i pull i dont have any problems holding aggro. you can nearly spam the 3 taunts continuosly and again, the rescues are just awesome. so maybe if you are having problems tanking, look at all your abilities, make sure you actually have an idea how to tank, or maybe just realize you shouldnt be a tank and reroll a class better suited to your playing style.

Isio · 02-15-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trit1

i think that whoever is behind the keyboard will determine how well you tank. if you are having problems holding aggro as a paladin then maybe you should try to change up your strategy. as a 15 pally i have 3 taunts and 2 rescues and think i do a very good job tanking. hardly ever lose aggro and if i do quick rescue and its right back. i seem to really shine on multiple pulls when the fit hits the shan. heals, multiple rescues, and multiple taunts, pallys just do very well overall. i actually enjoy having someone else pull and using rescue right away to get aggro. it is obviously a huge hate producer and it starts you out with a high damage shot on the mob. but even when i pull i dont have any problems holding aggro. you can nearly spam the 3 taunts continuosly and again, the rescues are just awesome. so maybe if you are having problems tanking, look at all your abilities, make sure you actually have an idea how to tank, or maybe just realize you shouldnt be a tank and reroll a class better suited to your playing style.

Although I agree on some of this, last time I checked there was no hate modification to our rescues. All it does is simply force the mob to face you for a certain amount of hits. Aggro is not just about the tank. In this game it is a group effort. More so than any game I have played yet and I've enjoyed it thus far.
And if you don't think Pally's have any aggro issues, then let me direct you to our class boards Paladins of Telon

Vengeful · 02-15-2007, 04:55 PM

This just in.

Paladins are getting a +Aggro% componant to our Defensive Aura and Damage Aggro in general is being looked at.

Trit1 · 02-15-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isio

Although I agree on some of this, last time I checked there was no hate modification to our rescues. All it does is simply force the mob to face you for a certain amount of hits. Aggro is not just about the tank. In this game it is a group effort. More so than any game I have played yet and I've enjoyed it thus far.
And if you don't think Pally's have any aggro issues, then let me direct you to our class boards Paladins of Telon

of course im still a young pally and i totally agree that this is a group effort, if you have a dps going full out from the start then most tanks are going to have some problems. everyone at this point is learning how to play their characters in groups and im sure that plays a part. but i just dont see any aggro problems right now. ill report back when i get some more levels and more experience in groups.