[Ayeshala]

My only big beef right now are the Presence requirements; I worked around that by using my Adventuring-earned cash to buy some +33 shirts and +16 legs off the Broker. I've been traveling a lot in my mid (adventuring) 20s from area to area doing some solo/group stuff and every time I stop in a new city I'll run around and do every quest I have the necessary presence/skill for. It's been fun.

[Gnarl]

I kinda have the same opinion as the op, and I haven't really seen any posts from anyone else to justify changing my mind.

Yes, you can move around and get different lore, but even doing that, there simply aren't enough stories for the number of parlays that you have to win to move up to the next lvl of NPC's. Eventually you end up seeing the same ones over and over again (which is just and invitation to grind). I counted it when I was grinding from 85-100 on 100 lvl npcs. It's almost exactly 17 parlays per diplo skill point(even longer for presence).

I started grinding b/c I wanted to do more of the diplo quests (I thought most of them were cool and entertaining). Problem with them is that usually the reward for the quest is an item that adds to the same presence that you had to have to do the quest. After I go to the exchange and buy a +33 crafter presence shirt, what am I gonna do with a +6 crafter presence shirt as a reward?

As far as the "it's gonna be great when it's done" response goes...well it's only complete from skill lvls 1-40ish...uhh that means that is is less than 10% complete! I know the whole game was rushed to market, but c'mon 10% complete justifies implementing it? It should have just been left out until it was closer to finished. But that's ot and beyond control of the devs (trust me, I work in IT, I know how marketing can force developers hands...it's just a fact of life in business).

I would just like to see the quest lines and presence requirements moved into a more linear curve so that there is a way to break up the grind a little more.

[milow]

Originally Posted by Wudan

ok you are 168, so what? what did you get out of it except the buffs? uhm yeah I know...a lot of fun, Im sure you are reading all the dialgues, enjoying the lore...truly exciting
I would bet you just spam-clicked through it like everyone else, grinding the same NPCs over and over. There is tons of posts admiting to doing so, basically because there is no other way. people are not even reading all the civic parley dialogues anymore, hell how could they after doing 440th parley

/laugh

I got 17 or so gold selling stuff, had fun running around doing quest (I did read the quest), Horse and bags. I am waiting for more stuff to get add along the line of trade and writs. I do find it funny that someone might talks about mindless clicking on the same few NPC (which I only do for 3-5 skill up before yes I get bored and move on), yet it ok to pull the same 4 or 5 NPC over and over killing them. Snare dot dot re snare dot dot nuke nuke dead. Not alot of difference between soloing NPC and parleying with NPC.

[kjjjjjjk]

Originally Posted by Wudan

Im now lvl 70diplomat and I have to say it is probably going to be the end of my career. The reason I say this is simple, the whole diplomacy is so repetitive and boring its unbearable. The amount of grinding is insane. Once you find out the right tactic you can NEVER lose. I was grinding Leth Nurae doing circle of 5npc's, 4 of them skill 75, 1 was at 100. I had 1 deck I never had to change and I won every single time. Moreover, all 5 NPC`s were using exactly same cards in exactly same order. It took me quite a lot of time to grind from 50 to 70 and i grew sick of it, I utterly hate it now. Im sad to say this as I had really high expectations and was looking forward to becoming a diplomat.

If you think about it. . .how many dipl lvls is there? 300 - 400? Can you imagine the grindfest? Its gonna get slower the higher we get.

I dont understand this whole concept. Do they really expect, that pople will sink houndreds and houndreds of hours grinding the same parleys over and over again and aigain, playing the same cards and getting the same respons every single godamn time?

I did like 1-50 quests, they seemd to have some story in them and it was new, but than, once I got used to it and started with civic. . .

Im so disappointed

retired 70th diplomat
Wudan Grey of Halgarad

OMGZ lol i know exactly how u feel! this one time i stabbed myself in the thumb with a metal spike over and over again for hours and then i was so disappointed i thought it would be fun but it WASNT!!!

lol get real man

[brusw68]

Originally Posted by Gnarl

As far as the "it's gonna be great when it's done" response goes...well it's only complete from skill lvls 1-40ish...uhh that means that is is less than 10% complete!

There is stuff to do above level 40 -- more quests are going in every patch, but you are right, the sphere is only about 10% completed from what we have been told will be coming in the future (writs, merchant diplomacy, tier 3-5 clothing, player city diplomacy, etc).

And you are correct about a pretty large spectrum of inbalances between reward vs. effort (buying a +33 presence shirt to win a quest for a +6 presence shirt).

And you are correct that, as of now, the sphere is more grind than content.

So for those of you he see the picture above, which is completely accurate, and wonder what the point is -- then I would answer that for you, there is no point. Maybe down the road there will be, but now? Not so much.

But for those of us who do enjoy the sphere as it is, and see future content as a bonus not a requirement, what we get of it is the game play, the stat building, the quest completion and the stories involved (I personally liked the Three and a Half Fools quest in Three Rivers) and the tier 1 and 2 item winning. That we enjoy it and others do not just means we are not all alike.

I also enjoy peanut butter and classical music, each of which some other people can't stand either. toMAYto, toMAHto.

[Calenor]

If you try parleying with different races, different stations and in different conversations you ll probably realize that you need different cards all the time. I also like the fact that turning the info you get items.. keeps you going. DIPLO RULES

[Gnarl]

Just to clarify, I like the diplo concept, and have enjoyed it from time to time.
I mean, c'mon I must have screw or 2 loose for leveling it over 100 on one char and then doing it all again to 200 on another!

So, in the interest of constructive criticism and in an effort to improve my negativity (sry, had to throw that in as I just got my review at work and negativity was listed as an "area of improvement").

Here are some simple suggestions to improve the short-term playability of the diplo sphere (imho).

1) Make the quest rewards different from the requirements of the quest. i.e. Don't give us a +15 academic presence shirt for completing a quest that required 75 acad presence to complete. Give us, say, a +15 merchant or domestic presence shirt. Realistically, if the npc's parlay is set at skill 75, it shouldn't require 75 presence to start the parlay anyway (but that's a whine, and I'm trying to be helpful...sry). This also give us the ability to hop from one quest to another by using gear we got on the previous quest, instead of having to grind it out, or buying stuff off the exchange.

2) Give us a + to our diplo skill for completing diplo quests. Faction is nice, but giving us skill would also reduce, if not eliminate the grind. I could do without some of the gear in exchange for skill pts or baubles as rewards.

3) And the one I've heard suggested repeatedly: 2 bags for the diplo equipment page, 1 for clothes and one for holding information. I have all 16 slot bags, and as a diplo and crafter, I'm left with only my starter inventory for adventuring stuff b/c all the others and my entire bank are filled with diplo and crafting crap. If the mechanics of the sphere are going to require us to have a different set of clothing for each diplo station, give us a place to put them. Hey, what happened to the diplo pouch fitting on the belt slot of the diplo clothing page anyways? Like it did in beta...

I've got more if anyone's interested, but this post is too long already!

[Flight]

Originally Posted by Wudan

Im now lvl 70diplomat and I have to say it is probably going to be the end of my career.

I was grinding Leth Nurae doing circle of 5npc's, 4 of them skill 75, 1 was at 100. I had 1 deck I never had to change and I won every single time. Moreover, all 5 NPC`s were using exactly same cards in exactly same order.

retired 70th diplomat
Wudan Grey of Halgarad

I think Diplomacy is terrific; a real innovation.

The way you are approaching it is the problem. If you start playing MtG or some other card game in real life are you going to keep playing the 7 year old kid in the corner, who uses the same starter deck over and over a hundred times or are you going to play other guys with harder decks and have more fun.

Move on, find some other challenges. I'm sure Diplomacy will develop over time.

[Rucki]

Originally Posted by Flight

I think Diplomacy is terrific; a real innovation.

You are utterly wrong. It has to read:

Diplomacy COULD be terrific. it COULD be a real innovation.

But atm its a total waste of time.

I had tried it shortly after starting VG, it took me only 3 hours to find out that the whole concept is a empty bucket. There is really no goal behind it, nothing to look forward to.

Well if there was, i would go into diplomacy 24/7 i swear.

Alot promises had been made about it. But not a single one has come true until now.

I as a high lvl crafter, making huge amounts of cash, can only laugh at the poor diplomats, running around playing card games. I have a lot of customers who can pay well, but none of them is a diplomat.

MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAA

P.S: now i feel sorry i had to wake you díplomats up the uncomfortable way. but its also may way to protest against the current state of it.

[Mirra]

Originally Posted by Rucki

You are utterly wrong. It has to read:

Diplomacy COULD be terrific. it COULD be a real innovation.

But atm its a total waste of time.

I had tried it shortly after starting VG, it took me only 3 hours to find out that the whole concept is a empty bucket. There is really no goal behind it, nothing to look forward to.

Well if there was, i would go into diplomacy 24/7 i swear.

Alot promises had been made about it. But not a single one has come true until now.

I as a high lvl crafter, making huge amounts of cash, can only laugh at the poor diplomats, running around playing card games. I have a lot of customers who can pay well, but none of them is a diplomat.

MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAA

P.S: now i feel sorry i had to wake you díplomats up the uncomfortable way. but its also may way to protest against the current state of it.

Well, considering I am both a diplomat and crafter equally, I can not disagree with you more. But to each their own I guess. As far as money goes, I did not become a dilplomat to make money. That being said, I actually have made quite a lot with clothing on the broker. But of course that will change as more people do it and who knows what to expect once the regional trade market is in. Crafting is more my money maker and I suspect it will stay that way, but that seems pretty obvious as far as expectations.

At any rate, congrats to you for findingout it is a waste of time (for YOU) after 3 hours. ~hands out a cookie~ I will just continue to keep having my fun and enjoy both spheres equally.

[Rucki]

Thx. I will pay for the cookie. I know you need the money.

mwahahahaha :=)

[brusw68]

Originally Posted by Rucki

You are utterly wrong. It has to read:
I as a high lvl crafter, making huge amounts of cash, can only laugh at the poor diplomats, running around playing card games. I have a lot of customers who can pay well, but none of them is a diplomat.

MUHAHAHAHAAHAHAA

P.S: now i feel sorry i had to wake you díplomats up the uncomfortable way. but its also may way to protest against the current state of it.

Huh, I guess VG does have Troll as a player race after all.
/ignore

[Puuma]

Originally Posted by Rucki

I as a high lvl crafter, making huge amounts of cash, can only laugh at the poor diplomats, running around playing card games. I have a lot of customers who can pay well, but none of them is a diplomat.

And thus, art reflects life. I can't name a rich diplomat, but a rich CEO is easy.

[Silvania]

I'm not a high level in diplomacy, but I've found it to be really, really interesting. From the moment I started trying out the diplomacy at the trainer, I've been stuck doing diplomacy since. I love unraveling the lore, as well as getting to know more about my whole starter area.

I'm in Tanvu, and the story behind the dream wars and all that gives the city so much more depth than just a small castle and some rice fields.

Perhaps you don't like diplomacy grinding, because your only goal is to grind to "end-level"? As for myself, I've enjoyed just reading the lore and the stories, and I haven't even noticed when the skills went up. I have fun winning the parleys and enjoy trying different types of parleys with other races and stations to help me better choose the proper cards for different situations.

Furthermore I belive that diplomacy will be greatly improved in many ways. The parley system, city levers and all that is the foundation for them to build on.

People stressing themselves out and being impatient already only displays a limited attention span and lack of seeing a bigger picture further ahead than their own noses.

[Mirra]

People stressing themselves out and being impatient already only displays a limited attention span and lack of seeing a bigger picture further ahead than their own noses.

I think that is so true. Sure the game is bugged and unfinished. But it seems like everyone is in such a hurry to either get to the end game or be #1. Whatever. Seems to me like you miss out on the fun of what you are actually doing when you get that way.

[sumuji]

I have a 50 Shaman and decided to pick up diplomacy. I can say doing parelys at 100 skill is already feeling like leveling from 49-50 in adventuring. They added huge grind and a number to reach and that was it. And apparently that's all some people need but even from someone that drug through incomplete higher level content I can hardly stomach it .

So for a game that was in development for over 4 years I have to wonder how there's nothing really practicle in diplomacy 2 months into launch. I just can't comprehend how it could be so incomplete.

[milow]

What is rich? I have around 60-65 gold and the majority of that is from being a diplomat. Now I know that dosnt touch someone like a boat builder pulling in 50 gold for a boat,but it enough to do what I need/want to do now.

[Rollen]

Originally Posted by milow

What is rich? I have around 60-65 gold and the majority of that is from being a diplomat. Now I know that dosnt touch someone like a boat builder pulling in 50 gold for a boat,but it enough to do what I need/want to do now.

Hi Milow long time no see. I had no idea there was so much money in Diplomacy. Guess I need to jump back in.


Rollen
Paladin/Armorsmith

[brusw68]

Originally Posted by sumuji

So for a game that was in development for over 4 years I have to wonder how there's nothing really practicle in diplomacy 2 months into launch. I just can't comprehend how it could be so incomplete.

Welcome to the diplomatic fold! Yes, the grind to application content is really skewed in favor of the grind right now. The reason is because while Adventuring and Crafting may have had 4 years of development, Diplomacy did not. It developed system was scrapped in Beta 4 (which I believe was in mid 2006) and rebuilt from scratch. As such, Diplomacy has not had 4 years of development, but more like 9 months. Also, the Diplomacy development team is 4 people. I don't know how big Adventure dev team is, but I bet it is a lot larger than 4.

The four people are trying to get content in as fast as they can, and since launch the number of quests has doubled as well as the institution of a unique quest line called Writs. Diplomatic equipment has increased 50% with the introduction of Tier 3 gear since launch, as well as a handful of crafter specific recipes for diplomats. So the sphere content has probably doubled since launch Problem is, double very small is still very small.

The sad truth is that things originally stated in the manual (player cities) or otherwise hyped for release (diplomacy classes) are now probably going to be reserved for the first expansion, so who knows when that will be. But for those of us who enjoy the card game and like the clothes, there is fun to be had. But no, Diplomacy is nowhere close to being complete or even on par with the other two spheres.

Originally Posted by Rollen

I had no idea there was so much money in Diplomacy.

There is not. While it is possible for some Diplomats to make a good chunk of change, this is mostly the leaders who are getting the cutting edge content first and passing down the left overs to younger Diplomats. So I am not saying milow didn't make a gob of money doing diplomacy, if he/she were the first to get T2 and T3 onto the brokers. Just saying that his/her experience would not be typical for a person getting into it now.

[Brownshoe]

I'm shocked at the number of people that think you need to just grind diplomacy, especially in the level 5-125 area. Maybe after this, but beforehand there are over 50 quests to do once you get past the newb line. Do the level 12 presence quests to get your presence going so you can take on the level 25 presence quests. Do the "Moonstruck" fool line in Tursh, the quest lines in Three Rivers, the quest lines in Veskal's Exchange. After this, you'll be at least 50 presence in most types, 75 in some, and you've got a bunch of new cards. Buy a couple of items with presence from the broker or do a targeted set of civic parleys when you're a little short of a particular kind of presence, then move on. Do the five quests in Lomshir Plains, the 11 in Tawar Galan, and then the 11 in Khal, and you're well over 100 skill and exceed 75-100 presence in most areas. Do the 8 in Neamsog Bunkers, pick up the +18 Soldier belt et al. By the end of it, you're well into the 100s skill-wise, you've got your presences mostly over 75-100, and you're ready to start working towards prestige faction and writs...

Maybe that's when the grind truly begins, but before that the quests are pretty fun...