[Velzevul]

Hey guys, what's up?

This patch #1 has been extremely disappointing to us DRK community. This is becoming on the border of insane. Let me walk over some quick promises given to us and blatant things that need to be fixed and are not getting the attention they require.

-----------------------------------------------------
I believe Avair stated some weeks ago, and Xaices can confirm - SOD didn't need to be nerfed, and it will be reverted back to original state next patch. Well... 2 patches passed, and no reversion happened. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our DC doesn't seem to work, this is our most important class defining ability. And it is FLAKY, inconsistent, and all other kinds of issues. How would paladins feel if their heals were not landing 50% of the time at all? What about warriors, would they feel well if their Myrmidon's gift had a 50% chance to fail? FIX DRK DC. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Do DRK have rescues? Ohh I'm sorry, I must be blind... 32 endurance for a basic rescue, THAT DOES 1 DAMAGE. 1!!!!!. We are not even sure if it adds hate as the tooltip says either, the only thing we are sure it does is turns the mob to us for 2 attacks, and than back to FFA Aggro. Well, that's a 1/3rd of my endurance pool. Wars get them for under 20sh endur, Paladins i'm not even sure. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our infamous "Ohh crap!" skill, WoD... Well, I am lvl 33 DRK, it does 1300 damage and I got about 150 intel +/- buffs. So I can say I am average intel DRK at least. I SWING WITH MY 2 HANDER FOR 400 COMBAT DMG AND I CRIT FOR OVER 1500 AT TIMES (using 44 dps heroic 2h sword). Ability is on long refresh timer, has no other benefits than low end damage that isn't much but another Malice crit only without a chain that follows, and is highly resistable and mitigatable. Gosh, I get better benefit from using the mana for another Torture than WoD. Please Comment...
-----------------------------------------------------

This is just the start of talking about our issues. Other numerous things include but are not limited to buggy Shadow Step, buggy Stances, and some other things that are not as important but equally annoying.

P.S. MOST IMPORTANT: you guys promised to fix SoD back, and you did not. That destroyed your credibility and it destroyed belief of the class, that "everything will be OK". You need to work that credibility back, going back on a direct promise like that is seriously hurting Sigil as a company and developer image overall.

Thanks for reading.

[hawnz]

WTB cull!

[warakus]

Originally Posted by Velzevul

Hey guys, what's up?

This patch #1 has been extremely disappointing to us DRK community. This is becoming on the border of insane. Let me walk over some quick promises given to us and blatant things that need to be fixed and are not getting the attention they require.

-----------------------------------------------------
I believe Avair stated some weeks ago, and Xaices can confirm - SOD didn't need to be nerfed, and it will be reverted back to original state next patch. Well... 2 patches passed, and no reversion happened. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our DC doesn't seem to work, this is our most important class defining ability. And it is FLAKY, inconsistent, and all other kinds of issues. How would paladins feel if their heals were not landing 50% of the time at all? What about warriors, would they feel well if their Myrmidon's gift had a 50% chance to fail? FIX DRK DC. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Do DRK have rescues? Ohh I'm sorry, I must be blind... 32 endurance for a basic rescue, THAT DOES 1 DAMAGE. 1!!!!!. We are not even sure if it adds hate as the tooltip says either, the only thing we are sure it does is turns the mob to us for 2 attacks, and than back to FFA Aggro. Well, that's a 1/3rd of my endurance pool. Wars get them for under 20sh endur, Paladins i'm not even sure. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our infamous "Ohh crap!" skill, WoD... Well, I am lvl 33 DRK, it does 1300 damage and I got about 150 intel +/- buffs. So I can say I am average intel DRK at least. I SWING WITH MY 2 HANDER FOR 400 COMBAT DMG AND I CRIT FOR OVER 1500 AT TIMES (using 44 dps heroic 2h sword). Ability is on long refresh timer, has no other benefits than low end damage that isn't much but another Malice crit only without a chain that follows, and is highly resistable and mitigatable. Gosh, I get better benefit from using the mana for another Torture than WoD. Please Comment...
-----------------------------------------------------

This is just the start of talking about our issues. Other numerous things include but are not limited to buggy Shadow Step, buggy Stances, and some other things that are not as important but equally annoying.

P.S. MOST IMPORTANT: you guys promised to fix SoD back, and you did not. That destroyed your credibility and it destroyed belief of the class, that "everything will be OK". You need to work that credibility back, going back on a direct promise like that is seriously hurting Sigil as a company and developer image overall.

Thanks for reading.

/Agree completely.

Someone give us some answers....

[Zarrae Zik'Rah]

Originally Posted by warakus

/Agree completely.

Someone give us some answers....

I think this lies at the heart of things... there has been SO LITTLE communication with the DKs.

We've seen a neglected promise with Scythe of Doom, we've seen a class-defining ability (Cull - life tap) be pulled entirely, we've seen Word of Doom go from "ZOMG! Harm Touch!" to "Oh, let's see if we can get double-digit numbers today...oh..no, it resisted again...", and we've seen damage slowly spiral away with no explination as to why...not to mention that various levels of DC still don't function properly...or at all.

The class morale is slipping away. Folks are getting frustrated and are throwing their hands up.

You want to fix morale? COMMUNICATE with your classes.

You had a reason for ditching Cull? TELL us why. We might dissagree with you, but atleast we'll know the reason.

You WANT WoD to be an iffy ability that works 10% of the time (if that much)... TELL us that it's a sketchy, CYA ability that is designed to drain your resources more than it is designed to deal damage...atleast then, we'll pull it off of our bars instead of vainly trying to figure out why it isn't working.

You can't figure out why DC3 and 5 are still broken? That's fine, TELL us that something in the code's borked and you have people on it.

As it is, DKs have become Vanguard's proverbial 'Red Headed Step-child.'

[Plankowner00]

Originally Posted by Velzevul

-----------------------------------------------------
I believe Avair stated some weeks ago, and Xaices can confirm - SOD didn't need to be nerfed, and it will be reverted back to original state next patch. Well... 2 patches passed, and no reversion happened. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our DC doesn't seem to work, this is our most important class defining ability. And it is FLAKY, inconsistent, and all other kinds of issues. How would paladins feel if their heals were not landing 50% of the time at all? What about warriors, would they feel well if their Myrmidon's gift had a 50% chance to fail? FIX DRK DC. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Do DRK have rescues? Ohh I'm sorry, I must be blind... 32 endurance for a basic rescue, THAT DOES 1 DAMAGE. 1!!!!!. We are not even sure if it adds hate as the tooltip says either, the only thing we are sure it does is turns the mob to us for 2 attacks, and than back to FFA Aggro. Well, that's a 1/3rd of my endurance pool. Wars get them for under 20sh endur, Paladins i'm not even sure. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our infamous "Ohh crap!" skill, WoD... Well, I am lvl 33 DRK, it does 1300 damage and I got about 150 intel +/- buffs. So I can say I am average intel DRK at least. I SWING WITH MY 2 HANDER FOR 400 COMBAT DMG AND I CRIT FOR OVER 1500 AT TIMES (using 44 dps heroic 2h sword). Ability is on long refresh timer, has no other benefits than low end damage that isn't much but another Malice crit only without a chain that follows, and is highly resistable and mitigatable. Gosh, I get better benefit from using the mana for another Torture than WoD. Please Comment...
-----------------------------------------------------

This is just the start of talking about our issues. Other numerous things include but are not limited to buggy Shadow Step, buggy Stances, and some other things that are not as important but equally annoying.

P.S. MOST IMPORTANT: you guys promised to fix SoD back, and you did not. That destroyed your credibility and it destroyed belief of the class, that "everything will be OK". You need to work that credibility back, going back on a direct promise like that is seriously hurting Sigil as a company and developer image overall.

Thanks for reading.

Okay, so we still have an SoD nerf that goes far beyond what was stated. Seriously, it's as bad as reported, I think instead of 25% return we might be getting 2.5% return if we're lucky.

WoD line is nothing more than something to play with. It's unreliable, cost heavy and a drain on resources. When something that's 15 levels below me resists it completely, I see a little bit of a problem there.

Scourge is a high cost, low return ability and Nexus of Hatred isn't much better. If damage = hate then those really need to be tweaked a bit to either output a tremendous amount of hate or equal parts hate and damage.

Dread Countenance is still just as unreliable as it has been, DC3 and DC5 aren't working properly by reports. So that makes me wonder what else isn't working. Is my AoD actually doing anything OTHER than nerfing my damage to help my mitigation?

But by Halifur I'm a happy little dark elf! I can toss a pointed stick at something!

Oh, and by the way, is there any possibility that I'll actually get an ability that gives me a reason to use a shield? The reduction in damage reduces our ability to hold agro with a one handed weapon. How about something to help us out while we're going sword and board .....
..oh..
..oh..
..wait..
That's right, I can toss a pointed stick.

Silly me.

[Warhead]

Cylus posts on www.graffe.com alot. In fact, he has just posted today. Either they are just ignoring us, or dont even read this board. I am thinking ignore is probably the right choice.

[Niteflyx]

Originally Posted by Warhead

Cylus posts on www.graffe.com alot. In fact, he has just posted today. Either they are just ignoring us, or dont even read this board. I am thinking ignore is probably the right choice.

No devs have posted on the affliated vanguardfighters.com forum either. Our class lead, Xaices, does communicate what he does get from the devs to us, but there has been nothing since the SoD nerf.

All these points that were brought up are serious issues, especially our class defining ability, the one that many of our good skills are based upon, Dreadful Countenance.

[unearth]

I can tell you right now that after 100 hours of gameplay as a Dread Knight I am also very dissapointed. I quickly become very bored with the class as all i do in combat is use vexing strike, malice, the chains, and shadow step. Im not about to start leveling another class and shelving the toon until i pay another $60 and have 4 months pass by when something good finally happends to this forgotten class. I understand the game is new and all that jazz, but as stated by the poster there have been promises made and broken. And dont release a game if you have to make 20 pathetic little fixes to every class in every patch and completely ignore the worst classes.

I never use SoD, i never use WoD, i never use provoke, i never use the DC increasing ability (whats the name? lol), i never use approximately half the abilities we are given and im lvl 25.

Oh and to add, im on Varking, a team pvp server, can you say "Broken"?

[Zikkar]

Originally Posted by Velzevul

Hey guys, what's up?

This patch #1 has been extremely disappointing to us DRK community. This is becoming on the border of insane. Let me walk over some quick promises given to us and blatant things that need to be fixed and are not getting the attention they require.

-----------------------------------------------------
I believe Avair stated some weeks ago, and Xaices can confirm - SOD didn't need to be nerfed, and it will be reverted back to original state next patch. Well... 2 patches passed, and no reversion happened. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our DC doesn't seem to work, this is our most important class defining ability. And it is FLAKY, inconsistent, and all other kinds of issues. How would paladins feel if their heals were not landing 50% of the time at all? What about warriors, would they feel well if their Myrmidon's gift had a 50% chance to fail? FIX DRK DC. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Do DRK have rescues? Ohh I'm sorry, I must be blind... 32 endurance for a basic rescue, THAT DOES 1 DAMAGE. 1!!!!!. We are not even sure if it adds hate as the tooltip says either, the only thing we are sure it does is turns the mob to us for 2 attacks, and than back to FFA Aggro. Well, that's a 1/3rd of my endurance pool. Wars get them for under 20sh endur, Paladins i'm not even sure. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our infamous "Ohh crap!" skill, WoD... Well, I am lvl 33 DRK, it does 1300 damage and I got about 150 intel +/- buffs. So I can say I am average intel DRK at least. I SWING WITH MY 2 HANDER FOR 400 COMBAT DMG AND I CRIT FOR OVER 1500 AT TIMES (using 44 dps heroic 2h sword). Ability is on long refresh timer, has no other benefits than low end damage that isn't much but another Malice crit only without a chain that follows, and is highly resistable and mitigatable. Gosh, I get better benefit from using the mana for another Torture than WoD. Please Comment...
-----------------------------------------------------

This is just the start of talking about our issues. Other numerous things include but are not limited to buggy Shadow Step, buggy Stances, and some other things that are not as important but equally annoying.

P.S. MOST IMPORTANT: you guys promised to fix SoD back, and you did not. That destroyed your credibility and it destroyed belief of the class, that "everything will be OK". You need to work that credibility back, going back on a direct promise like that is seriously hurting Sigil as a company and developer image overall.

Thanks for reading.

/signed


Man you got to love boards all over the place so they can ignore us better. To think everyone just knew no offical boards would be such a wonderful idea.

[Zemm]

Originally Posted by Velzevul

Hey guys, what's up?

This patch #1 has been extremely disappointing to us DRK community. This is becoming on the border of insane. Let me walk over some quick promises given to us and blatant things that need to be fixed and are not getting the attention they require.

-----------------------------------------------------
I believe Avair stated some weeks ago, and Xaices can confirm - SOD didn't need to be nerfed, and it will be reverted back to original state next patch. Well... 2 patches passed, and no reversion happened. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our DC doesn't seem to work, this is our most important class defining ability. And it is FLAKY, inconsistent, and all other kinds of issues. How would paladins feel if their heals were not landing 50% of the time at all? What about warriors, would they feel well if their Myrmidon's gift had a 50% chance to fail? FIX DRK DC. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Do DRK have rescues? Ohh I'm sorry, I must be blind... 32 endurance for a basic rescue, THAT DOES 1 DAMAGE. 1!!!!!. We are not even sure if it adds hate as the tooltip says either, the only thing we are sure it does is turns the mob to us for 2 attacks, and than back to FFA Aggro. Well, that's a 1/3rd of my endurance pool. Wars get them for under 20sh endur, Paladins i'm not even sure. Please comment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Our infamous "Ohh crap!" skill, WoD... Well, I am lvl 33 DRK, it does 1300 damage and I got about 150 intel +/- buffs. So I can say I am average intel DRK at least. I SWING WITH MY 2 HANDER FOR 400 COMBAT DMG AND I CRIT FOR OVER 1500 AT TIMES (using 44 dps heroic 2h sword). Ability is on long refresh timer, has no other benefits than low end damage that isn't much but another Malice crit only without a chain that follows, and is highly resistable and mitigatable. Gosh, I get better benefit from using the mana for another Torture than WoD. Please Comment...
-----------------------------------------------------

This is just the start of talking about our issues. Other numerous things include but are not limited to buggy Shadow Step, buggy Stances, and some other things that are not as important but equally annoying.

P.S. MOST IMPORTANT: you guys promised to fix SoD back, and you did not. That destroyed your credibility and it destroyed belief of the class, that "everything will be OK". You need to work that credibility back, going back on a direct promise like that is seriously hurting Sigil as a company and developer image overall.

Thanks for reading.

/signed

[Cobalty2004]

Overwhelm, a Warrior rescue, costs 38 Endurance.......

It can crit for 1k, but it only lasts 2 attacks.

[Meldryn]

I agree whole-heartedly. The longer I play my DK, the less faith I have that the devs have any sort of vision for the role of the class in end-game. As it is, we're inferior to other tanks in mitigation, agro control, rescues, and utility. Vexing Strike, our basic melee abilitiy, does not even add a weakness for god's sake. Without a 2-hander, we have no chance of holding agro against even a semi-geared dps class. Or healers for that matter. Thanks for buffing Disciple and Cleric Damage. Disciples already out-dpsed me to the point where I had to pray to hold agro, and depending on how much they buffed Cleric damage, they'll be replacing DK's as tanks.

/rant off
/plays with javelin

[Demise]

/signed

My NORMAL wracks/ruins do more damage than WoD.

[Tarikko]

DK's are vanguards red headed stepchild?

Funny I seem to do fine, in fact more than fine.

Look at any class issue thread and someone will refer to their class as being the red headed stepchild.

Meldryn said: As it is, we're inferior to other tanks in mitigation, agro control, rescues, and utility

Do you play a DK? this is laughable. I can pull aggro from any other tank (int ftw) and PuG's actually make comments about how they love tanks that can keep hate, but rescue needs some work I agree(sometimes it doesnt work and the endurance cost needs to come down not to mention paladin rescue does twice the amt of dmg). Every other tank was brought down to our level of mitigation, and still, I have no problem mitigating damage what so ever. The other 2 classes just had too much. What kind of utility do you want? group buffs? heal other? seriously.. you need to learn your role and the DK will become insanely fun to you.

To everyone here jumping on the bandwagon: Whining is annoying, knock that shit off.


That being said, there ARE issues which need to be looked at.

1. Can someone confirm DC is working properly? (its all just speculation but id like to hear it so I can stop reading about it in whine threads)
2. Will SoD be returned to a useful state? -confirmed by class lead that it would be changed back, unknown if this is true
3. If you use an endurance cost ability before ravaging darkness has a chance to fill you to 100%, it doesnt work half the time. (and usually this means by the time it fills you to 100, you have 3-4 secs of using it)
4. Will we get more shield attacks? right now I only use bleak to create a stun, other than that its a bit meh.
5. Can bleak foeman be put on a separate cooldown from the rest of the abilities? So say I could use it and immediately hit vexing or malice. This would make using bleak much more fun and involving instead of using it to shield bash (which shows up in log as vexing or malice)
6. Word of Doom needs a HUGE revamp, this spell rarely gets used. -known by devs, unknown what/when changes will occur
7. Balanced stance has dodge -known by devs

As far as shadow step, just jump before you use it, or you'll probably lose it on uneven ground.

I've been looking around for DK mobs to learn cull from, but it may be a while before its discovered. I'm 31.

[Velzevul]

what worries me also, is that I see developers replying to all kinds of posts by other classes, but I have yet to see a solid reply on War, Pal, DRK concerns.

[Tarikko]

Originally Posted by Velzevul

what worries me also, is that I see developers replying to all kinds of posts by other classes, but I have yet to see a solid reply on War, Pal, DRK concerns.

I thought paladins had a ton of patch notes this patch? Didnt they get some love?

[Valamir]

is not that cause a DK can steal aggro from the MT mean that DK have an huge aggro...

the MT can't reach its full DPS potential... stuns, debuffs, stam/mana drains have an huge hit on its damage and so its hate generation

for this reason is quite normal that a supporting def fighter, who have not strong deaggro skills, can easilly draw aggro from the MT

from my experience fighters have best hate then DKs and then pallies who compensate with rescuse and seem better than us in multi mob aggro control


balanced stance problem is not just about dodge... is not working at all... look at your defence in off stance (and in particular parry and avo values) then put it on and look again... nothing changed


jump before shadowstep doesn't help too much too had many los or invalid even with it, still sometimes in rought terrain i use it :P


the problem is that we have a lot of skills that doesn't scale well (our devour debuff and all our spell) or they are exceptionally inefficent (vile, wod, sod, black wind, incarnate...)

even some of the costs are a bit unbalanced... little example..

chain I snare for 20-30s and cost 45 (if i remember right)
chain II snare for 25-35s and cost 87 (again goin with memory)

now... why i should spend twice to get an average of 5 more seconds when i can cast chain I twice and snare for a bit less than a min? :P

there are tons of issues like this one even if probably is quite common among all classes as the game was rushed and is quite evident that there is not any balance among various classes with some clearly unfinished

so i don't think we are the unlucky class of VG but still there are many many issues that needs to be addressed

[Vaedar]

Originally Posted by Tarikko

I can pull aggro from any other tank (int ftw) and PuG's actually make comments about how they love tanks that can keep hate, but rescue needs some work I agree *snip*

Please enlighten me on how INT effects aggro.

[Shawnsan]

Originally Posted by Zarrae Zik'Rah

As it is, DKs have become Vanguard's proverbial 'Red Headed Step-child.'

Get in line BEHIND the disciples.

I can't believe I chose to try the two most ignored classes in the game...

[Tarikko]

Originally Posted by Vaedar

Please enlighten me on how INT effects aggro.

1. It was confirmed by Avair (iirc from the post on vg fighters)
2. Add a point of INT and watch your hate ability number. IE mouse over torment and then add a point of int

I'm not sure if this was a real question or if you thought maybe you'd make me look stupid. Either way, now you know