[Rulan]

Originally Posted by Shihan

I think the cooldown on stance switching is great. If there was no cooldown then there would be 0 point of making some abilities stance-dependant. You could macro it and have very little ill effect. As it stands now, if you want to switch from defensive to offensive to use Whirlwind on an incoming group, or to get some extra DPS off on a boss mob... then you pay for that in being stuck in offensive for a few swings.

I think once our defensive chains are fixed then I won't have much of an issue staying in defensive. As it stands now (35+) in defensive I can hardly hold aggro due to the various issues we have. Yes, I realize that aggro management is a team-thing but some classes just can't help it ( DK can't feign aggro off or anything :P ).

Anyhow... I'll comment more once we get our first 'pass' on the review coming in the near future.

Agreed

[Rulan]

Originally Posted by Skaithe

I'll mention this again. I think we should have a "nuetral" stance. Why should we only have penalties to choose from? We are always either sacrificing dmg or mitigation.

A lesser cooldown on stance switching would be nice. I tend to hit decimate when it pops up on a crit in defensive, get auto-switched to offensive, pop off a waylay or whatever, then switch back to defensive.

if you aren't dpsing or tanking, what are you doing? hehe..

i think the cooldown is a problem only because you have to become a master at stance dancing in order to tank effectively atm

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by rajnika

Here's my idea. Makes 2 sides of each warrior skills, one while using offensive and while for defensive one.

I like this idea.

[merpa]

I for one like the concept that warrior have different stances that really mean something. (Note: I am talking about the concept here, not the current implementation.)

That's a bonus, it adds flexibility. With stances, we can have significantly higher DPS (in offensive) and significantly higher mitigation (in defensive) than proper balance would allow them to give us all at the same time.

Think about the balance trade-off. The more restrictive stances are, the more powerful their bonuses can be.

I'm not 40+ yet, so I can't speak to the current implementation at that level. I do find myself using offensive stance more and more for tanking, however. That seems wrong to me, but my mitigation isn't that bad and I have no problems holding aggro. Maybe my groups need to find harder stuff to fight.

[Venge]

The warrior class it meant to be played as an extreme. Meaning for us, we do either one or the other, cold slice. When we are in offensive stance, we can excel at dps (this is not currently the case due to some ability issues), and when we are in defensive stance, we can excel at tanking due to our large amont of hate and mitigation/defensive buffs (again this is not apparant due to ability issues).

For the stance cooldown, it will remain the way it is. Its intent is to be a "focus" where you wouldn't want to switch in and out. It used to be longer some time ago so right now is pretty quick as it is.

For the neutral stance, we've discussed this for the longest. However, we will not be recieving one. Sorry

One off the general issues is that the offensive stance has more "raw" power than the defensive stance. Meaning, the offensive stance has the decimate chain that can be used over and over for damage, yet in defensive we have one hate chain that only generates so much hate every 30 seconds. See where I am coming from?

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by Venge

The warrior class it meant to be played as an extreme. Meaning for us, we do either one or the other, cold slice. When we are in offensive stance, we can excel at dps (this is not currently the case due to some ability issues), and when we are in defensive stance, we can excel at tanking due to our large amont of hate and mitigation/defensive buffs (again this is not apparant due to ability issues).

For the stance cooldown, it will remain the way it is. Its intent is to be a "focus" where you wouldn't want to switch in and out. It used to be longer some time ago so right now is pretty quick as it is.

For the neutral stance, we've discussed this for the longest. However, we will not be recieving one. Sorry

One off the general issues is that the offensive stance has more "raw" power than the defensive stance. Meaning, the offensive stance has the decimate chain that can be used over and over for damage, yet in defensive we have one hate chain that only generates so much hate every 30 seconds. See where I am coming from?

Are they rectifying this?

[Rasputina]

Originally Posted by Rulan

i think the cooldown is a problem only because you have to become a master at stance dancing in order to tank effectively atm

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but isnt the whole point of a cooldown on the stances to stop the need to stance dance?

I think needing to stance dance would not be fun. I see "stance dancing" as changing stances quickly, as in switching stance to set off an ability and quickly switching back. I think any game system that forces you to do this to be optimal is a very flawed system.

If you are switching stances and staying in them for at least the length of the cooldown now, then I dont see much problem.

And as another mentioned, if you are going to allow stance dancing as I have defined it (ie, no cooldown), then there is no point in having stance specific skills. Its just extra button mashing mumbo-jumbo that serves no purpose.

[Rulan]

Originally Posted by Rasputina

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but isnt the whole point of a cooldown on the stances to stop the need to stance dance?

I think needing to stance dance would not be fun. I see "stance dancing" as changing stances quickly, as in switching stance to set off an ability and quickly switching back. I think any game system that forces you to do this to be optimal is a very flawed system.

If you are switching stances and staying in them for at least the length of the cooldown now, then I dont see much problem.

And as another mentioned, if you are going to allow stance dancing as I have defined it (ie, no cooldown), then there is no point in having stance specific skills. Its just extra button mashing mumbo-jumbo that serves no purpose.

I was saying the need to stance dance is a problem right now, so I agree with your view that you shouldn't need to stance dance so much. Was just saying it's a reality of tanking effectively now because of broken abilities. You have to switch stances alot more than I think was intended atm.

[Rahl]

My main is a Dread Knight and I've never played a Warrior, however I would just like to add that DrK has no clue what he's talking about. I Shadow Step - Harrow in groups every second I can, and do I hear anyone bitching about it? No. With a nice two-hander you can produce some really nice heals and help the healer out.

And you don't have to be behind your target for Malice to be more effective either. The monster you are attacking just has to be flanked by an ally in your party.

And also, mabye my expectations aren't high enough, but I believe our stances are fine.

Edit: DrK might respond with the whole, "What about the Rogues?!" As underpopulated as the class is, when I do run into one in my party, I tell them that I will be shadow stepping a lot. Every Rogue I've grouped with has responded with "np."

[Thanood]

Originally Posted by Venge

The warrior class it meant to be played as an extreme. Meaning for us, we do either one or the other, cold slice. When we are in offensive stance, we can excel at dps (this is not currently the case due to some ability issues), and when we are in defensive stance, we can excel at tanking due to our large amont of hate and mitigation/defensive buffs (again this is not apparant due to ability issues).

I like that, really. That's what I see when I think about a warrior.
Looking forward to having these ability issues fixed..

[Niteflyx]

Originally Posted by Rahl

My main is a Dread Knight and I've never played a Warrior, however I would just like to add that DrK has no clue what he's talking about. I Shadow Step - Harrow in groups every second I can, and do I hear anyone bitching about it? No. With a nice two-hander you can produce some really nice heals and help the healer out.

And you don't have to be behind your target for Malice to be more effective either. The monster you are attacking just has to be flanked by an ally in your party.

And also, mabye my expectations aren't high enough, but I believe our stances are fine.

Edit: DrK might respond with the whole, "What about the Rogues?!" As underpopulated as the class is, when I do run into one in my party, I tell them that I will be shadow stepping a lot. Every Rogue I've grouped with has responded with "np."

Shadow stepping with Rogues in the group is just annoying (to the rogue). My job is to mitigate and maintain aggro, not keep myself healed-- that's what the other 1-2 slots in the group are for. Unless it's a pull from hell or some other scenario where shit hits the fan, it's really not necessary.

[Rahl]

Considering the fact that you can walk through monsters, if a Rogue in your group can't handle switching sides every 15 seconds I don't think you want him in your group in the first place.

And also, you said your job as a tank is to "mitigate and maintain aggro."
Harrow does both of those. That 500 damage hit you just took was mitigated through an instant heal.

Now lets throw our differences aside, this is a Warrior thread.

I don't know much about Warriors, so all I have to say is the finisher y'all get where your weapon turns green is awesome.

[Dinenir]

Originally Posted by Venge

For the stance cooldown, it will remain the way it is. Its intent is to be a "focus" where you wouldn't want to switch in and out. It used to be longer some time ago so right now is pretty quick as it is.

If the intent of stances are that you are not supposed to pop in and out of them, why on earth will critical hits in defensive stance trigger offensive finishers as well and vice versa? - That simply makes no sense at all to me.

I may be playing my warrior the "wrong" way, but i tend to stay in defensive stance for the duration of a grouping session, if I'm tanking. The change mentioned above has sort of made the reaction bar obsolete for me as hitting the chain icon of it has become somewhat of a lottery - you might get the defensive finisher, but you might pull a decimate out of the hat instead and as a result pop into offensive stance.

Basically in my opinion it should be a completely transparent system. You should never hit a reaction hotkey (if you have made such a one) and end up doing something that you were not expecting. And to be honest, having to have your finishers in your regular hotkey bar to make sure you get the finisher you want pretty much takes away any need for having the reaction bar if you ask me.

This is something I personally would really like to see adressed and/or explained as the change made to finishers might make sense to the more fluid classes, where the stances are not such "cold slice" changes as you mentioned as is the case for the warrior.

/Dinenir, Gelenia (EU)

[lostforever]

Originally Posted by Dinenir

If the intent of stances are that you are not supposed to pop in and out of them, why on earth will critical hits in defensive stance trigger offensive finishers as well and vice versa? - That simply makes no sense at all to me.


/Dinenir, Gelenia (EU)

I see this too and i wounder what is goign on. Sometime i am in def stance but i see some of my offensive chain light up (but they are grey) so i switch to offensive but can't use them (but the timer is still up)

[Rulan]

Yeah I have noticed sometimes if I click the button I hotkeyed to 'chainreaction' or whatever it's called, if my SC is lit up, it will pop me into offensive and use Decimate instead. Perhaps my SC was not 100% cooled down though (maybe it was like 99%). Cause if SC isn't ready, but you get a crit, you will Decimate when you hit the hotkey. Which I like.

Are you sure you switched to offensive before trying to use? If you don't have '/toggleautochange' on you won't be able to click a reaction that uses the other stance. Check your chat text when you're trying to pop it. Would be nice if that setting saved and I didn't have to type it every time I logged in.

[Dinenir]

Originally Posted by Rulan

Yeah I have noticed sometimes if I click the button I hotkeyed to 'chainreaction' or whatever it's called, if my SC is lit up, it will pop me into offensive and use Decimate instead. Perhaps my SC was not 100% cooled down though (maybe it was like 99%). Cause if SC isn't ready, but you get a crit, you will Decimate when you hit the hotkey. Which I like.

Are you sure you switched to offensive before trying to use? If you don't have '/toggleautochange' on you won't be able to click a reaction that uses the other stance. Check your chat text when you're trying to pop it. Would be nice if that setting saved and I didn't have to type it every time I logged in.

Not sure if the second half of your post was meant for me or lostforever, but I will give you my experiences at least. I'm sure I did not explicitly switch to offensive stance before trying to use the chain - I stay, by choice, in the defensive stance when tanking as stance dancing just doesn't really fit with how i want to play (i want to be absolutely certain i have the defensive abilities if i need them at a critical point - meaning i don't want to end up with defensive stance on cooldown and a need to taunt and/or shield bash or something similar).

It may be a nice feature that decimate will trigger over stinging cut, if stinging cut is on a cooldown - in which case the chain reaction bar needs a bit of fixing so that the actual triggered finisher will light up instead of one currently on a cooldown.

To illustrate this in another way - if a finisher is on a cooldown meaning you are unable to perform it, then the "opening" isn't really there in combat to do that said ability and thus it shouldn't trigger at all (same goes for counters really - if it's on cooldown, it shouldn't trigger unless it can be used before the timer runs out).

I will add the '/toggleautochange' option to my setup macro for now, but ultimately I would like to see a bit of attention put on the reaction bar for warriors at some point, as they really do need to function a bit differently from other classes as I see it, due to the different nature of our stances. (Possibly the same goes for paladins or dread knights or other classes, but I admit to being an "ignoramoose" about those knowing little to nothing about what they can or cannot do at this time.)

Apologies for the rambling and spread out ranty character of my posts - It's something that does nag at me though while playing.

/Dinenir, Gelenia (EU)

[Rulan]

It may be a nice feature that decimate will trigger over stinging cut, if stinging cut is on a cooldown - in which case the chain reaction bar needs a bit of fixing so that the actual triggered finisher will light up instead of one currently on a cooldown.

Agreed.

[lostforever]

Originally Posted by Rulan

Yeah I have noticed sometimes if I click the button I hotkeyed to 'chainreaction' or whatever it's called, if my SC is lit up, it will pop me into offensive and use Decimate instead. Perhaps my SC was not 100% cooled down though (maybe it was like 99%). Cause if SC isn't ready, but you get a crit, you will Decimate when you hit the hotkey. Which I like.

Are you sure you switched to offensive before trying to use? If you don't have '/toggleautochange' on you won't be able to click a reaction that uses the other stance. Check your chat text when you're trying to pop it. Would be nice if that setting saved and I didn't have to type it every time I logged in.

When i see Decimate light up (what i mean is its grey but u can see the green timer bar up) i manually switch to offensive and tehn i click Decimate but it does not seem to work.

I will try using "'/toggleautochange" tonight and see what happens

[Rulan]

Keep in mind guys, you won't see a response like "toggle set ON" or anything when you do it. But it works.

[merpa]

The reactions bar is broken in many ways and this is one of them.

Using the Chain reaction keybind or the /chainreaction command should not change stances.