[Safire]

If there were no "community" forums - then I propose that changes would be drawn purely from in game feedback and logs of people exploiting, reports of quests being bugged etc. The game vision would not be on the chopping block for the community to constantly be thrashing and threshing with their opinions.

Imagine if the artist who designed the box made a forum where people could make threads and discuss what he should or shouldnt paint into the picture, which clases, what monsters. What should the system requirements say? How big should the text be? As you can plainly see - there is no one right answer, but when someone designs something artistically or otherwise - they make a decision and at some point people need to nod and either keep playing the game or leave cause it aint their style.

Imagine a restaurant that allowed the patrons to come in and design the menu every day for them, or just argue in the dining room abotu what should be on the menu, how big the servings should be and whether or not the soup is too salty... hahaha you get the picture

I designed web sites for a while and there is a point where the designer often has to TELL the client - to their face (as gently as possible of course) that they have hired YOU the designer for a reason, and it is because YOU are a designer, not them. If they were designers then they wouldnt have called you. Which is to say - too many cooks spoil the brew - especially when many of them (the ones with the check book?) know the least about designing.


I think these forums do not HELP VG move forward.

[Neiuo]

Originally Posted by Safire

If there were no "community" forums - then I propose that changes would be drawn purely from in game feedback and logs of people exploiting, reports of quests being bugged etc. The game vision would not be on the chopping block for the community to constantly be thrashing and threshing with their opinions.

Imagine if the artist who designed the box made a forum where people could make threads and discuss what he should or shouldnt paint into the picture, which clases, what monsters. What should the system requirements say? How big should the text be? As you can plainly see - there is no one right answer, but when someone designs something artistically or otherwise - they make a decision and at some point people need to nod and either keep playing the game or leave cause it aint their style.

Imagine a restaurant that allowed the patrons to come in and design the menu every day for them, or just argue in the dining room abotu what should be on the menu, how big the servings should be and whether or not the soup is too salty... hahaha you get the picture

I designed web sites for a while and there is a point where the designer often has to TELL the client - to their face (as gently as possible of course) that they have hired YOU the designer for a reason, and it is because YOU are a designer, not them. If they were designers then they wouldnt have called you. Which is to say - too many cooks spoil the brew - especially when many of them (the ones with the check book?) know the least about designing.


I think these forums do not HELP VG move forward.

Forums like these stopped being about the game long long ago,

It's all about the "look at me" now. and more about non-game entertainment reading them as well...

[Vryce]

OMG the best MMOG message boards ever were the original Sigil Games Online boards. They only lasted for a few months before the Vanguard boards were made (even those were good for the first year or so), but the discussions were money.

Why?

Because they were all theoretical. Everyone speaking spoke with hope and optimism. There was no disappointment to speak about. Disappointment breeds discontentment which infects message boards.

[The_Dark_Knight]

Originally Posted by Safire

If there were no "community" forums - then I propose that changes would be drawn purely from in game feedback and logs of people exploiting, reports of quests being bugged etc. The game vision would not be on the chopping block for the community to constantly be thrashing and threshing with their opinions.

Imagine if the artist who designed the box made a forum where people could make threads and discuss what he should or shouldnt paint into the picture, which clases, what monsters. What should the system requirements say? How big should the text be? As you can plainly see - there is no one right answer, but when someone designs something artistically or otherwise - they make a decision and at some point people need to nod and either keep playing the game or leave cause it aint their style.

Imagine a restaurant that allowed the patrons to come in and design the menu every day for them, or just argue in the dining room abotu what should be on the menu, how big the servings should be and whether or not the soup is too salty... hahaha you get the picture

I designed web sites for a while and there is a point where the designer often has to TELL the client - to their face (as gently as possible of course) that they have hired YOU the designer for a reason, and it is because YOU are a designer, not them. If they were designers then they wouldnt have called you. Which is to say - too many cooks spoil the brew - especially when many of them (the ones with the check book?) know the least about designing.


I think these forums do not HELP VG move forward.

Thank you for stating what I am thinking very eloquently. My lack of tact got my post moved to the volcano, but the message is the same.

I certainly hope the devs don't read many posts here, or on any of the forums. It's like with the EQLive boards, the devs finally stopped reading them in general and made people "community correspondents" whose job was to read through all the junk and forward posts that might have some relevance to the devs, so they could avoid all the "spew" posts.

With all the angst and hate out there, I am sure the VG devs will get to that point too. The sooner the better.