[Vyvian Vycious]

The excuse that MMO's are just this way is unacceptable. Yes, all games previously launched had major bugs and/or issues. But why is this now the "normal" way of the MMO? People play these games because they enjoy playing games on a computer where they can interact with other people and create a character to advance in a fantasy world. They should not be told to "stop playing" or even "quit whinning" regarding these games.

Business is good in the MMO sector for those that make it to retail. What is mind boggling is the games that do hit retail and think it's ok to be buggy and lack the majority of content at launch. There are some games out, including Vanguard, that have great potental. Some that are out now had rocky starts but are balancing out now and doing pretty well. But why is it that we see Normal as Incomplete?

Games cost money to develop and release. But so does every other business out there in the world. Why is it that the gaming industry is allowed to be a subpar producer of quality?

On topic, since the above will probably be flamed for not being on topic... Give the players a chance to really help this game since it's obvious the time and resources are not there for Vanguard to test things themselves. Here's an example of what may help Vanguard:

Cylus, you have 5 players and email them about some changes or additions in the game that you worked on. Give them their characters on test and have them check it out for you. Get the feedback good or bad and then use that data to make tweaks or put it on the platform for the next patch.

If things are being tested on a test server by someone, is it that Test and Live servers have different codes in them that are effecting how changes are implemented? If so, have a dedicated Test server that exactly mirrors the Live servers so you can get an accurate test done.

The sooner patches stop causing severe issues, the sooner more players will stop posting retarded, whinny and obnoxious posts here on the forums.

[THC]

because games in general mean too much to a lot of people. Its like a drug.

They are willing to accept subpar quality product, because they need the crack.

Developers know they will get away with it.

Also, the competition on MMO market is quite weak.

People want to play, but there is not many "good" options really.

Originally Posted by Vyvian Vycious

Why is it that the gaming industry is allowed to be a subpar producer of quality?

[Vengeful]

I think it's more like fix one problem you care about and you read about 6 other problems that may or may not affect you.

They are obviously fixing more than they are breaking. Drama llama ftl.

[Aroua999]

You know, people really do have odd memories.

I played Eq2, Horizons, Shadowbane and SWG at launch. I played WoW about 2 months after launch (where we are now with VG) and I have to say...none of them, even Horizons and SB had this many issues/bugs or missing features in the same timeframes I played them, and HZ was missing like all content above lvl 40, lol. Huge tracts of empty nothing. And SB would sometimes take 10 attempts and 20 minutes to even log in, but once in, all those games were far more stable than this one, and actually had 90% or more of the features promised within the 2 months time frame! Now some of those games have failed or "nearly" failed (HZ is down to like 5k people), and I'm not saying VG will, I'm just pointing out that this tired old argument is WRONG! You exagerate everything.

2 months after EQ2 launched, it had bugs, but lord, you could play it and it had tons more content than this game. The bugs were maybe 1/2 where VG is now, let alone performance. I'm sorry but it's true.

Yikes, the last week playing this game is turning me into a hater :-( I guess I'm glad it's my last day today, I can try and finally get tehedissapointment out of my head

[Aroua999]

Originally Posted by Vengeful

I think it's more like fix one problem you care about and you read about 6 other problems that may or may not affect you.

They are obviously fixing more than they are breaking. Drama llama ftl.

Problems like where 1/2 the game population has machine guns for 4 hours? or where half the art dissapeared and you could walk through boulders and get stuck in walls?
Maybe the one where you fell out of the sky and died (teleporting or levetating).
O my favorite, the one where you get destroyed material for making grade A items, and later all class quest items resulted in destroyed material.
Oh, and the one where crafting Exp was reduced by 1/5th for a day on accident!

I had all those effect me, and those are teh big ones. Does not even count where recipes went missing, a quest I was half way through became uncompletable, or items in my inventory went poof. There are more. I'm sure some other people actually playing the game experienced these too. And I mostly craft! lol

Not everyone experiences every bug of course, but there are morethan enough to go around with each patch, trust me. If you miss all of them, maybe you are not playing most of the content as you claim to be?

[Vengeful]

Originally Posted by Aroua999

Problems like where 1/2 the game population has machine guns for 4 hours? or where half the art dissapeared and you could walk through boulders and get stuck in walls?
Maybe the one where you fell out of the sky and died (teleporting or levetating).
O my favorite, the one where you get destroyed material for making grade A items, and later all class quest items resulted in destroyed material.
Oh, and the one where crafting Exp was reduced by 1/5th for a day on accident!

I had all those effect me, and those are teh big ones. Does not even count where recipes went missing, a quest I was half way through became uncompletable, or items in my inventory went poof. There are more. I'm sure some other people actually playing the game experienced these too. And I mostly craft! lol

Not everyone experiences every bug of course, but there are morethan enough to go around with each patch, trust me. If you miss all of them, maybe you are not playing most of the content as you claim to be?

Yeah and it's totaly terrible how they let all those bugs you mention ride for weeks without a fix.

[Aroua999]

Originally Posted by Vengeful

Yeah and it's totaly terrible how they let all those bugs you mention ride for weeks without a fix.

Don't think the timeline was the issue, but the fact that they existed.

oh, and the Levetating one STILL exists to this day! yay?

and other went without fixes for longer. The big ones I listed got fixed pretty fast. Moerate to smaller ones take longer (I went more than a MONTH without my tier 3 grip recipe, as did all Kojan artificers, as well as being unable to learn it from Thestra, thereby making me unable to make any t3 weapons...period. For a month!)

Nope, didn't effect my gameplay at all for weeks and weeks

Edit: Oh, and the destroyed material bugs still exits. Been over a month for a lot of those as well.

[Vengeful]

Originally Posted by Aroua999

Don't think the timeline was the issue, but the fact that they existed.

oh, and the Levetating one STILL exists to this day! yay?

and other went without fixes for longer. The big ones I listed got fixed pretty fast. Moerate to smaller ones take longer (I went more than a MONTH without my tier 3 grip recipe, as did all Kojan artificers, as well as being unable to learn it from Thestra, thereby making me unable to make any t3 weapons...period. For a month!)

Nope, didn't effect my gameplay at all for weeks and weeks

Edit: Oh, and the destroyed material bugs still exits. Been over a month for a lot of those as well.

Are you new to MMOs? Cause it seems like you aren't faimiliar with this drill.

[ZakzimusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Vengeful

Are you new to MMOs? Cause it seems like you aren't faimiliar with this drill.

Even old mmos dont break this much fixing code for something else. And FYI in the VG beta the patches were like a month a part and they released without causing major exploits to like 5 other areas.

So this isnt just an "OH the game is new it has bugs" this is a "hey were doing this fast and half assed and were just throwing crap out the door to try and please ppl we will fix stuff on the fly after everyone has exploited it"

Most of these bugs just smack of the developers not even playing there own game. An HOUR of play time would have found the machine gun clicky, and the teleportation bug. I dont care how busy you are almost anyone can log an hour of game time.

[rhagz]

Lack of in-house testers and relying on the paying customers to beta test is the sole reason for it.

[Aroua999]

Originally Posted by Vengeful

Are you new to MMOs? Cause it seems like you aren't faimiliar with this drill.

See my other posts. No, I've been playing since 2000 and EQ1.

No other game I have played even at launch (including Horizons and SB) were this buggy, or broken. I'm sorry, they weren't. I stuck with horizons for 4 months too.

It's a tired mantra, it's the way of MMO's. No it's not. You just delude yourself into remembering the 4-5 annoying bugs in the first 2-4 weeks of a game. Some were bad to be sure. None went on this long or were this bad. 2 months in, those games were in much better shape than this one

Thanks for helping MAKE me a hater, when I used to be neutral...man I need to put you on /ignore, you just WANt people to hate this game, don't you? I DO want VG to succeed, you just want to paint everyone as a hater.

Edit: And i love how you dodge, the issue. Oh, you were not affected - yes we were. Oh, those got fixed fast - No they didn't. Oh, you must be new to MMo's then - No I'm not. What's next? Good debating technique though, they taught me that way back ijn high school too!

[ZakzimusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Aroua999

See my other posts. No, I've been playing since 200o and EQ1.

no..other...game I have played even at launch (including Horizons and SB) were this buggy, or broken. I'm sorry, they weren't. I stuck with horizons for 4 months too.

It's a tired mantra, it's the way of MMO's. no it's not. You just delude yourself into remembering the 4-5 annoying bugs in the first 2-4 weeks of a game. Some were bad to be sure. none went on this long or were this bad. 2 months in, those games were in much better shape than this one

Thats exactly my point. I hope the devs read this and go "You know we dont have to shove out content so fast we break every other system in the game. The general public will be much more satisfied if the game stays stable and we release larger patches that are 90% bug free and dont wreck other systems we already have in game."

We know you cant catch every exploit but damnit I want the exploits to be to be at least difficult to figure out so that only about 4 ppl per server are exploiting them or even know they exist.

You cant even ban anyone in vanguard for exploiting because the exploits are so in your face its known to everyone on every server within about 3 hrs and so far everyone has been abusing the hell out of them.

I mean jebus the exp exploits you could practically sit there and do /who all 40 50 and see all the cheaters lvling every like 30 minutes to an hour.

[Aroua999]

Originally Posted by ZakzimusMaximus

Thats exactly my point. I hope the devs read this and go "You know we dont have to shove out content so fast we break every other system in the game. The general public will be much more satisfied if the game stays stable and we release larger patches that are 90% bug free and dont wreck other systems we already have in game."

We know you cant catch every exploit but damnit I want the exploits to be to be at least difficult to figure out so that only about 4 ppl per server are exploiting them or even know they exist.

You cant even ban anyone in vanguard for exploiting because the exploits are so in your face its known to everyone on every server within about 3 hrs and so far everyone has been abusing the hell out of them.

I mean jebus the exp exploits you could practically sit there and do /who all 40 50 and see all the cheaters lvling every like 30 minutes to an hour.

Heh, agreed totally. I remember how difficult just logging into Shadowbane was some days, the login servers wre a huge issue with that game, but once in, you didn't lag, crash, die for no reason, etc. And they did fix isues about once a month, and that was fine. We stayed there for almost a year despite gankers (sigh).

Slow down the patches and get them RIGHT! This is one of the biggest issues this game has. I might have paid for another month if I knew the next patch would bring in lot's of fixes, or even just a couple big ones.
But I know it'll just bring in more bugs and changes and "balancing".

[Melios]

Originally Posted by Aroua999

2 months after EQ2 launched, it had bugs, but lord, you could play it and it had tons more content than this game.

Tons more content? I think you have them reversed.