[ammie]

Firstly I must say this has nothing to do with performance, bugs or any other issues of that nature. I accept those but also see them being dealt with in an encouraging way.

It is to do with a social hub. I really appreciate the world of Telon in many different ways, I love the feeling of freedom to go where I want and the choice to do what I want, the hugeness of the world, the quests, the diversity of challenge.

But this is my point, I also need somewhere to relax and meet up with others, that likewise just want to hang-out and want a break from all the hack and slash. Somewhere that because Telon is so huge, makes the world feel less lonely.

In games such as Anarchy Online people would congregate in town often out of necessity to help each other with buffs and implants. In doing so you could make new friends without the hectic rush of questing, giving you time to chat and get to know each other. It was not uncommon to see groups of people just sitting around chatting each night about their in game adventures. The same also occurred in SWG, it didn't matter if you spent all day fighting beasties out in the wilds on your own, there was always a place and a community to come back to. To a much lesser degree that also applied to WoW and Ryzom.

But where is this in Telon, I know the player towns are not yet built but it worries me that many of them are so remote and also I get the feeling they will be very much guild based. Once built I can see them being used for the occasional meeting or storage, I really hope I'm wrong on this one. Will the main npc towns such as Khal ever become social centers? It's still rather early to tell yet but again I think not, there is nothing that actually forces people to meet up there. The busiest places I've seen have been the crafter's halls but everyone is so occupied it is hard to be social.

I hear a lot of people complaining there is something missing in Vanguard, for me it's simple, I miss the social whirl! Of course you could give me a tent and a campfire and I could create my own mini hub. Anyone for a hot-dog?
Ah! and one of those beautiful Qalian lions for a companion would be great too!(sorry a bit off-track, but just had to throw it in )

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic and impatient, maybe once we have flying mounts and suchlike, when places get easier to visit, social gatherings will happen naturally, would be nice to think so. Meanwhile I would hate to lose people because they felt Telon was an introverted world Even pioneers had campfires!!

[Mac]

SWG Classic did a great job of that. You can to go to the cantinas to find entertainers to get rid of fatigue. And you had to go to a starport to find a doc to get there great buffs

It was forced interdependcies. Which might be the only way to get what your looking for.

[Vesperia06]

I miss the social community from SWG too. Vanguard just isn't going to be that kind of MMO.

I'm going to give the LOTRO open beta a shot and see what the community there is like. Gameplay is one thing, but a good community is reason enough to stick with an MMO.

[Herege]

I agree and would also sugest some save points outside some dungeons with a general good vendor, auction and mail to encourage people hanging around.
People could trade items directly without paying auction commissions, talk in say mode, organize groups and start adventuring inside the dungeon right away. After adventuring people could even log out safely and next day would be ready again to start another dungeon crawling without wasting much time.

But before all that the performance issue must be solved because the average player PC cant handle more then 2 groups on screen without the FPS going down to the point of unplayability.

[jonyak]

Originally Posted by Herege

I agree and would also sugest some save points outside some dungeons with a general good vendor, auction and mail to encourage people hanging around.
People could trade items directly without paying auction commissions, talk in say mode, organize groups and start adventuring inside the dungeon right away. After adventuring people could even log out safely and next day would be ready again to start another dungeon crawling without wasting much time.

But before all that the performance issue must be solved because the average player PC cant handle more then 2 groups on screen without the FPS going down to the point of unplayability.

I think chat bubbles would help this. most often I only pay attention to tell, group or guild channels and ignore everything else.

This is one of my least favorite aspects of this game.

[Nj0rdur]

I have played Anarchy Online too and I see your point. The guild I am in is very active so I get some of my social need covered. But I too miss the "life" that Anarchy Online has. I stopped playing AO in december. VG has great potential, and maybe there are not too many people yet on the server I am playing on.

Anarchy Online have only 3 realms and I guess thats why there are more "life" there.

We should be patient though, many VG-players are busy exploring, crafting and doing diplomacy. Maybe when many has reached 50 and started 1 or 2 more chars they have better time for chatting and and helping others out just for the fun of it. AO will be 6 years this summer so they have a head start. I think that once they improve lag in the larger cities maybe more people will go there and stay there in between questing and exploring. I myself avoid the larger cities because of lag and only go there when I have to. Special events and centralised services could help draw people there and maybe create abit more "life". In AO if you played clan, Old Athens was the normal place to go. Neutrals and Omni-Tek has their own capitol where people meet.

When the devs get control over the major city lag then they should maybe rebuild Ahgram (I am mostly in Qalia) so that all the main facilities was concentrated on 2 or 3 areas of town so that people can meet easier. Like it is now it seems like everyone is too busy finding a building there that they dont take notice when people try to talk to them. But I do like Vanguard and I think the social bit will improve once people need something else to do in addition to exploring and questing and crafting. This is all so new, I think people just need to satisfy their curiosity for a while longer

[pablo0713]

I see the point the OP is trying to make, but I do believe that there are many social hubs in VG. At least on my server, there are plenty of places where people gather about. The big difference with VG is that these social hubs tend to be level based unless it is a city.

Khal always has people hanging around the bank/broker. The crafting area is always packed.

Tanvu always has people hanging around crafting/broker area.

Southwatch is packed with people since this is a major missive quest hub.

Donovan's Roost - all those people trying to do the Infineum quests.

This is the way its been for me from lvl 1 to 36, I tend to see people gather about based on their leveling.

This world is big and this is what I love about it. But, because it is big, people aren't going to travel to one or two places because they are designated social hubs. They are going to gather at the nearest place associated with their adventuring.

Now, if Sigil gave us all a bind point on each continent, then I could see one or two areas becoming social hubs. But, as it is now, social hubs in this game are fluid. The world is too big and people aren't going to take the time to gather together in one spot if it simply takes too long to get there.

[Sithero]

Originally Posted by pablo0713

Now, if Sigil gave us all a bind point on each continent, then I could see one or two areas becoming social hubs. But, as it is now, social hubs in this game are fluid. The world is too big and people aren't going to take the time to gather together in one spot if it simply takes too long to get there.

/concur

Or implement a travel system that supports social hubs.

I always liked the UO rune system You could mark any location, but you had to travel there first. Make runes notrade and limited to towns or hubs.

Ppl could get back to towns, make a group, craft, bs, whatever... then head out.

[Sacrificial]

Originally Posted by Mac

SWG Classic did a great job of that. You can to go to the cantinas to find entertainers to get rid of fatigue. And you had to go to a starport to find a doc to get there great buffs

It was forced interdependcies. Which might be the only way to get what your looking for.

The Taverns, If you enter and spend say 5 Minutes, should give a nice Benneficial 4 Hour Buff to adventurers

[Sacrificial]

Originally Posted by jonyak

I think chat bubbles would help this. most often I only pay attention to tell, group or guild channels and ignore everything else.

This is one of my least favorite aspects of this game.

Christ I can't beleive this game dosen't have something as simple as Chat bubbles..

[subnaut]

Totally agree with the OP.

I had great times hanging out on OA hill or by Newland Grid. (And from the times I popped into Omni-1 for pvping or *cough* falling from Pande it looked socialable too). I remember the old spots too like Tir Grid near release where you never find anyone anymore.

Well, in part, AO's just a more social game and has one of the best communities out there. Aside from social hubs, it has frequent events at Reets etc with live DJs and GMs who show up with laser lights. And so much social clothing it's great.

On the other hand, one of the things that makes AO different and (a cause of a lot of its intitial trouble) was trying to put 10000+ on a server simultaneously. I love the giant servers, but no one has really wanted to attempt that since all the problems with the AO release. And any game's going to have problems with those numbers in the early bottlenecking stages.

Another thing is the time-cycle of the game. AO's been out a long time now (
~6 years?). Most games have a much different population after a couple years. There's definitely a crowd of people that like to jump to every new game and race through all the content, quit, and wait for the next game; and there also seem to be a crowd of people that won't join a game until it's been out 1+ years. That said, any game's going to get more social with time, as people either finish the grind race or stop caring about it. In time I'm sure we'll stop checking our vgplayers profiles every 5 minutes to see what rank we are and if our most recent server first was a world first too ;p

That said, SWG did manage to have a good social community almost immediately after release. I guess partly because the grind was really quick? Before people knew the Jedi-reqs you could make your crafting and adventuring in a week or two. Also having the entertainment classes and healing/energy recoup made taverns into a social area. The way harvesting and crafting was designed made player cities good social areas too. It was just really clever design from a social standpoint IMO. A lot of games could/should learn from it.

As for what you can do now, probably being patient is the best advice. Otherwise look for areas already getting crowded and give them a little nudge. A lot of people will come and hang out/idle if they know where other people are. Admittedly if there were a few less brokers/banks, this would make for more congregating. I know Southwatch seems to be fairly crowded because lots of crafters are there and adventurers congregate there too because of the missive board. Probably other places too.

I guess, where do people see the most people congregating on various servers?

[Fingis]

Originally Posted by ammie

It is to do with a social hub.

In WoW, people hang out around the auction house, Gold Shire, Cross Roads, and a few other places. Stormwinds is very popular these days.

Girl toons dress up pretty and hang out. People joke around, it's nice even if you don't want to take part.

I'm currently playing EQ2 now and am very much alone. It sucks. I've been thinking lately, I might as well play Oblivion. Why play a MMOG when there are no other people? But they tell me that I'll meet people when I get above 60.

My guess is that lack of a social scene can be game breaking for many.

[ammie]

Sacrificial posted,
Christ I can't beleive this game dosen't have something as simple as Chat bubbles..

I can remember in SWG sometimes, there were so many chat bubbles floating about you couldn't see a thing!

[Mac]

Originally Posted by ammie

Sacrificial posted,
Christ I can't beleive this game dosen't have something as simple as Chat bubbles..

I can remember in SWG sometimes, there were so many chat bubbles floating about you couldn't see a thing!

Yea, we gave that city a nick mane "spamanette"

[Ankriston]

i agree wholeheartedly! as an ex swger, i miss the social aspects of that game which i thought they did very well. no game has even come close to that for me since leaving swg. its too bad too, because forced grouping for quests does not a community make, and really , whats the point of having a town if t here is really no reason for it, in swg, people went to specific towns known to have doctors or dancers for buffs. or went to the cantinas. they were extremely successful, and i made many a friend there, and groups formed naturally. i think these modern mmo's could take that lesson from swg, and perhaps less lessons from wow.

[ammie]

Arkriston posted,
whats the point of having a town if t here is really no reason for it, in swg, people went to specific towns known to have doctors or dancers for buffs. or went to the cantinas. they were extremely successful, and i made many a friend there, and groups formed naturally. i think these modern mmo's could take that lesson from swg, and perhaps less lessons from wow.

I agree Arkriston, but hopefully the towns in Vanguard will give an added dimension to the game. Already I have seen guilds working towards building them and pulling people together. Will be interesting to see what happens in the long term as far as community spirit is concerned.