[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Kendrick

The world size at launch WAS cut down dramatically.

Plan A was to ship with Thestra, Qalia, Kojan (a much larger Kojan) as "starter" islands, 3 "intermediate" islands about 75% of the size of the starters, and one huge "advanced" continent 4x as big as a starter, and quite a few small theme islands, with a level cap of 100 on release. The starter continents would have contained 1-30 content, intermediates 30-70, the advanced 70-100, and the theme islands would vary. In addition, 5 more post-expansion continents were spec'd out that expanded on the "menace" storylines found on the starter continents (undead, djinn, ulvari, and more).

Plan B was to ship with Thestra, Qalia, a full-sized Kojan, and hopefully one or more of the intermediate islands, reserving the advanced and beyond for expansion, and cutting the level cap on release to 75. We started moving towards that in late 2003.

Plan C was same as above, but with a full sized Kojan, and the current level 50 cap. That was the 2004 plan.

Plan D is what you see now, with a downsized Kojan, and that started around 2005.

Assets (including the entire landmass) for one of the intermediate islands were built at the same time Thestra and Qalia were being constructed in 2003/2004, and I fully expect at least that island to make it into the next expansion since there was a lot of work done on it already.

For the entire time I was with Sigil, the Art department was the largest department by far. It was only at later stages, after a goodly bit of the world had been constructed, that they ramped up designer staffing.

And almost the entire time I was there, the Art department was in crunch mode, furiously trying to build as much of the world as they could, at the same time having to go back and rework things as engine tech and building methodology evolved. It was still easier to tweak geometry and apply new shaders than it was to just throw out already built work, btw.

The oft-cited "redesign(s) of the game" last year were almost entirely gameplay and code, both much easier to do than reworking art assets that had taken nearly 5 years to construct.

In defense of that "redesign", it was always the plan to adjust gameplay if some of our ideas didn't pan out, like the semi round-based combat, or travel mechanics, etc, and we knew we'd be likely to change many things we'd planned in 2002.

We also knew some things would likely be deferred until after release. Things like player cities and all the mechanics that come with that, the full list of planned classes and races (hello insect-men and Kojani barbarians), and so on.

The world is still huge now and has a good amount of mechanical depth, but it's only a fraction of what we WANTED to build, and if the game continues at its current pace and keeps subs, I'm betting you'll see more of those original plans come to life over the months and years.

Were we stupidly ambitious? Of course we were, and we knew it. But with a decent portion of the team involved in EQ2's early stages, and the rest of us watching it as it evolved, we didn't want to do what they did, which was (in many of our opinions at the tiime) a huge compromise. EQ2 was supposed to be mostly seamless, was supposed to be much larger, no or limited instancing, etc. And the simple fact is that many mechanics in EQ2 were done they way they were done just to be DIFFERENT from EQ, which galled some of us to no end.

We weren't watching Blizzard, couldn't watch Blizzard like we watched EQ2, so EQ2 (and SWG, and EQ1 expansions) were our benchmarks. Do it better than they did, and do it bigger, while still retaining what we liked about EQ1. By the time WoW was really on the radar, simple inertia prevented many sweeping changes, and faith in our basic concepts took care of the rest.

But the fact remains that the Sigil team managed to incorporate much of the original specs with hooks for quite a few more, and actually ship a product that many (myself included) are enjoying, albiet a rough product.

And that's not my ego talking, very little of what I worked on there is in the game today, other than names and a little backstory. Diplomacy is an entirely different animal than I'd concepted, for instance, and Kojan only bears a passing resemblance to what I spec'd. The only thing beyond names that I can point a finger to in the current game and say "I did that" is the Attribute system.

Were I a vindictive person, I'd be rooting for the game to tank, but I'm truly pleased at how well it turned out for the most part. I have one character in the 40's, another in the 30's, both unguilded, so I've got quite a bit of playtime under my belt, and it's not masochism or itoldyousoism that keeps me playing, I'm genuinely enjoying the game.

Do I think it could have been better if I'd stayed? Sure, in some cases, and there's a desire at times to have a week or so with the dev tools and free reign in some area just to prove that, but that's a passing impulse and wishful thinking for the most part. I left, and that's that.

Polish does need help, partly because the content designers there need more experience under their belts (and they're getting it...the hard way), and partly because things were rushed. Bugs happen, especially in a rushed environment, but they're doing a fair job of squashing those.

I don't think you're going to see dramatic gains in performance via code tweaking in the future, there's a limit to what can be done (and they've done a hell of a lot already), but I think the hardware is catching up, and even with older hardware it's still playable for many. However, I realize that many many potential players are held back from enjoying the game for performance reasons as well.

From my point of view, that's Vanguard's biggest shortcoming. Poor performance is real for many. Gameplay decisions, art style, etc, are subjective, some like it, some don't. But it's hard to decide if you like it or not if you simply can't run the game.

I thought this post was a very very good read. I am posting it here, becuase its good stuff.

[rhagz]

Cue up 'omgz vg pplz posting on foh and not fansites' in 5..

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by rhagz

Cue up 'omgz vg pplz posting on foh and not fansites' in 5..

He's not a dev anymore, he can post wherever the hell he pleases. lol

[jonyak]

Originally Posted by rhagz

Cue up 'omgz vg pplz posting on foh and not fansites' in 5..

4..

[vancrapola]

Originally Posted by rhagz

Cue up 'omgz vg pplz posting on foh and not fansites' in 5..

3...

[Candystore]

*waits patiently to post it*

[vancrapola]

Originally Posted by Candystore

*waits patiently to post it*

2..1..

[Candystore]

**** YOU DEV's for AGAIN posting on a GD, no good, ****ing FoH Guild website instead of the forums people actually read!!



edited- Labyrrinth
~

[bitter_bloodmage_01]

Awesome post, It was refreshing to see someone telling the truth about Vanguard with no spin or bullshit. The REAL vanguard.

I find it hilarious these game engines keep evolving but the textures and color schemes just get worse and worse. EQ1 to this day still remains top dog in the graphics department.


I don't have hate for it nor anyone associated with it but certainly love the drama.

I have been playing these games since 2000 when I started playing EQ and I have never played such a pitiful excuse for a game as Vanguard. It is flawed to the core in every way. Every aspect of the game is the wrong way to be successful. I find it very interesting.

I also find it interesting that fine Players such as yourself are a major part of the it's downfall. Soon none of the people who quit will be around and you will find Telon a very lonely place. A very lonely place indeed. Because once all the so called "Whiners" are gone, you will actually have to play the game. That my friend is the ultimate revenge of the "Whiners". To have the Vanbois actually have to play the game instead of chat on the forums and tell people to "Go Back to WoW". We may not go back to WoW but we are getting the Hell out of Telon. Good Luck.

[Poke]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

I thought this post was a very very good read. I am posting it here, becuase its good stuff.

That Kendrick seems to be a really classy guy. Why did he leave?

Also, I would like to know why a LFG tool was not the topmost priority. They should have built the game around the LFG tool. At least launch with the one from EQ1 to start.

[Poke]

Originally Posted by bitter_bloodmage_01

Awesome post, It was refreshing to see someone telling the truth about Vanguard with no spin or bullshit. The REAL vanguard.

I find it hilarious these game engines keep evolving but the textures and color schemes just get worse and worse. EQ1 to this day still remains top dog in the graphics department.


I don't have hate for it nor anyone associated with it but certainly love the drama.

I have been playing these games since 2000 when I started playing EQ and I have never played such a pitiful excuse for a game as Vanguard. It is flawed to the core in every way. Every aspect of the game is the wrong way to be successful. I find it very interesting.

I also find it interesting that fine Players such as yourself are a major part of the it's downfall. Soon none of the people who quit will be around and you will find Telon a very lonely place. A very lonely place indeed. Because once all the so called "Whiners" are gone, you will actually have to play the game. That my friend is the ultimate revenge of the "Whiners". To have the Vanbois actually have to play the game instead of chat on the forums and tell people to "Go Back to WoW". We may not go back to WoW but we are getting the Hell out of Telon. Good Luck.

Why the **** are you coping my posts.

edited - Labyrrinth

[Moosehead]

Great read, i agree with everything he has to say about the current game, actually its nice to read something about vanguard from someone who isnt disgruntled. This game is worth my 15 bucks a month.

[Candystore]

Originally Posted by Kendrick

We weren't watching Blizzard, couldn't watch Blizzard like we watched EQ2, so EQ2 (and SWG, and EQ1 expansions) were our benchmarks. Do it better than they did, and do it bigger.

Ok, isn't that just copying, almost plagarism?

Vision my ***.

[Melios]

I had no idea they originally planned for a 100 level cap, or that there were so many other islands planned. Now, I know of Lothenland and Avra, and I think the former is being planned for an expansion.

Interesting that there was going to be an insect-man race and Kojani barbarian race. I wonder, are they still in the design documents?

Originally Posted by Candystore

Ok, isn't that just copying, almost plagarism?

Vision my ***.

This is what they mean by third generation. Did you expect them to completely start from scratch and ignore all other MMO's being made?

[Candystore]

Originally Posted by Melios

This is what they mean by third generation. Did you expect them to completely start from scratch and ignore all other MMO's being made?

No, but they took the gameplay from EQ1, the UI interface from WoW, the animations from DoAC iirc, the engine from EPIC (unreal engine), the tree and terain generator from another company.

And now the guy says they watched WoW and EQ2 and took all the elements they could from it, only made it bigger.

Really, Vision?

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Great read, i agree with everything he has to say about the current game, actually its nice to read something about vanguard from someone who isnt disgruntled. This game is worth my 15 bucks a month.

I agree, i like the game, and i think its going to be a damn good game when they finally complete it. Its good right now, but i am in no rush to hit 50 right now. We all know there isnt anything to really raid yet. So i am just taking it easy.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Candystore

No, but they took the gameplay from EQ1, the UI interface from WoW, the animations from DoAC iirc, the engine from EPIC (unreal engine), the terrain and terain generator from another company.

And now the guy says they watched WoW and EQ2 and took all the elements they could from it, only made it bigger.

Really, Vision?

He said they did NOT watch WoW. They watched EQ1 and EQ2.

[rhagz]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

He said they did NOT watch WoW, EQ1 and EQ2.

Actually he said they didn't watch WoW like they watched EQ, EQ2 and SWG. Those they did watch.

EQ2 (and SWG, and EQ1 expansions) were our benchmarks. Do it better than they did, and do it bigger.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Candystore

No, but they took the gameplay from EQ1, the UI interface from WoW, the animations from DoAC iirc, the engine from EPIC (unreal engine), the tree and terain generator from another company.

And now the guy says they watched WoW and EQ2 and took all the elements they could from it, only made it bigger.

Really, Vision?

Originally Posted by Candystore

Ok, isn't that just copying, almost plagarism?

Vision my ***.

YOu dont think EQ watched UO? you dont think WoW watched EQ and EQ2 ? you dont think they stole idea's from the game and tried to make them better? get over yourself sport.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by rhagz

Actually he said they didn't watch WoW like they watched EQ, EQ2 and SWG. Those they did watch.

Well, they knew the game was comming out, and they didnt pay much focus to it, but its really hard to totally ignore a MMO when your making one.