[Shandor]

Hi all.

Well like many others (i think) i did quit VG a Wile ago because of the way VG Turned since some time. You know, Challenging and Hard to Simple and Easy.

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

In my personal opinion its very intresting what you all thinking and i hope we can get a Discussion running here without that much Trolling

Shandor

PS: English is not my Native language so i hope you could understand what im talking about at all *g*.

[Molpadia]

I duobt this thread will realy survive the trolls and flames, but I'll give it a try.

I cancelled on Saturday. The reason was the proposed changes to the death mechanics. Long story short, to me, even considering such a change in the core mechanics was the last straw in what IMO, is a plan to make the game easier and more like every other MMO out there.

Despite Brad's protests that he does not thing people were 'lied to' or 'mislead' into what to expect in VG. I feel what was promoted is not what the game is becomeing. Being kind I will say it is a problem of communication. If I were the only one saying this is not the game I expected, then you could say I misunderstood. If 2 people say the same thing, perhaps it is a coincidense. If a bunch of people say the same thing, then perhaps the fault lies with the 'communicator' and not the 'communicatee'.

I posted for a couple days after cancelling, then followed the discussions to see any DEV responces ( or more accuratly, lack therof). I broswed the forums today, as a last look before I change my home page. What chance Sigil had to win me back has more or less expired. Even if tommorow they announced a complete change to everything I wanted, there would be no way for me to know. When I move on, I move on and don't look back.

[Mr_bloodworth]

Originally Posted by Shandor

Hi all.

Well like many others (i think) i did quit VG a Wile ago because of the way VG Turned since some time. You know, Challenging and Hard to Simple and Easy.

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

In my personal opinion its very intresting what you all thinking and i hope we can get a Discussion running here without that much Trolling

Shandor

PS: English is not my Native language so i hope you could understand what im talking about at all *g*.

Unnecessary time sinks and 1999 thinking do not make a game hard, they make it inaccessible.

[kcxiv]

First off, i think the death change isnt really nessecary, but even if changed, it doesnt change my gaming experience 1 bit. All it does is make me pop up at the altar with my gear. If i want to go back into a dungeon, guess what? i still have to fight my way back in. ITs not making it easier, its just making it less stupid. People play the game to have fun, not be punished for dying. Dying should just be ok, i gotta start over, not ok take your experience away.

Anyways, some people to get over it. It hasnt even made it to live servers.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Mr_bloodworth

Unnecessary time sinks and 1999 thinking do not make a game hard, they make it inaccessible.

how about we camp the Vex Thal shards all over again? haha. I never EVER wanna do ANYTHING like that ever again.

[Aegorian]

Originally Posted by Molpadia

I duobt this thread will realy survive the trolls and flames, but I'll give it a try.

I cancelled on Saturday. The reason was the proposed changes to the death mechanics. Long story short, to me, even considering such a change in the core mechanics was the last straw in what IMO, is a plan to make the game easier and more like every other MMO out there.

so you quit over a change that may not even be made live?

cya EMO.

[Isobel]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

First off, i think the death change isnt really nessecary, but even if changed, it doesnt change my gaming experience 1 bit. All it does is make me pop up at the altar with my gear. If i want to go back into a dungeon, guess what? i still have to fight my way back in. ITs not making it easier, its just making it less stupid. People play the game to have fun, not be punished for dying. Dying should just be ok, i gotta start over, not ok take your experience away.

Anyways, some people to get over it. It hasnt even made it to live servers.

It is making it easier. When you get your tombstone back (they can call it whatever they want. It's a tombstone. The lost tombstone bug still applies) you get all of your XP back. Just a minute ago, testing it on a character in the low thirties i before i died i had 51% into my level. When i got my tombstone back i was again 51% into my level. It's trivial. When i died, had i not gotten my tombstone back i would still only have lost 5%. That's what, three of four mobs?

[Denidil Taureran]

what change from challenging to easy.. i've expirienced no difficulty change in the game and i've been playing since beta 4

[Kopuz]

how about we camp the Vex Thal shards all over again? haha. I never EVER wanna do ANYTHING like that ever again.

That is exactly what I want to do again. Those quests are what separates the 8 year old from the hard cores. Being the first guild to complete it and start raiding a zone is what these games are all about. RAID RAID RAID RAID. RAID till my mother f***** eyes bleed.

[sweetdigs]

I'm planning on quitting soon.. The way Sigil can get me back? Launch the game they promised us 3-4 years ago.. Not this watered down, ez-mode, MMO-lite version of VG.

Make grouping the primary focus of the game again. Get rid of trivial soloing content and phat lewtz that can be earned from soloing.

[Aegorian]

Originally Posted by Kopuz

That is exactly what I want to do again. Those quests are what separates the 8 year old from the hard cores. Being the first guild to complete it and start raiding a zone is what these games are all about. RAID RAID RAID RAID. RAID till my mother f***** eyes bleed.

anyone have the phone # for a good masochism hotline?

[Mardy]

This could be an interesting thread and a thread for devs to look at, if people can stop bickering back and forth and let people post what would bring them back. I'm still playing the game by the way, but am interested to see what people want from this game.

[Tanaril]

Originally Posted by Mr_bloodworth

Unnecessary time sinks and 1999 thinking do not make a game hard, they make it inaccessible.

Why exactly is is a time sink to be punished for death? If u die u deserve a deterant not to do it again. If u want God mode go and play a fps or a console game.

In response to the op i have my doubts if i will pick up VG again, the mythical peformance patch wont be coming and i feel all the aspects that attracted me to the game just wont be appearing or have been watered down to fit the 'gimme epix' generation of gamers that have spawned lately.

TBH, after being into pvp heavily for the past year and a half i expect i will go down that road next (most likely WAR or Darkfall if ever released), it just adds something missing from a AI controlled enviroment.

[Aegorian]

Originally Posted by Mardy

This could be an interesting thread and a thread for devs to look at, if people can stop bickering back and forth and let people post what would bring them back. I'm still playing the game by the way, but am interested to see what people want from this game.

i dont see how it's possible. We've already had 1 post that indicates that they're quitting because of a theorized change to the death penalty. If i were a dev and read this, i'd be LESS willing to communicate changes and/or gather user feedback. Next thing you know "Hey guys! We're thinking about giving you more money drops off mobs... what do you think?"... "OMG I QUIT!". His opinion is his own of course, but how do you expect them to take feedback like that seriously? They're damned if they do, damned if they dont, and apparently damned if they simply think about it.

[Molpadia]

Originally Posted by Aegorian

i dont see how it's possible. We've already had 1 post that indicates that they're quitting because of a theorized change to the death penalty. If i were a dev and read this, i'd be LESS willing to communicate changes and/or gather user feedback. Next thing you know "Hey guys! We're thinking about giving you more money drops off mobs... what do you think?"... "OMG I QUIT!". His opinion is his own of course, but how do you expect them to take feedback like that seriously? They're damned if they do, damned if they dont, and apparently damned if they simply think about it.

If you are refering to me, I also said the last straw. If you read the dev posts about the reason for the change in a core mechanic is a CS problem and in addition to changing the mechanics they are reducing the death penaly, added to the recent exp changes and many other things that make the game more easy mode.

Considering the proposed change in light of recent changes a person of average intelligence can determine a pattern emerging and get a handle on the mindset of those that will determine where this game will go. Every indication I have seen the game is moving in a direction I don't want to go.

I played as changes were made, waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I get the impression this creature is a centipede.

[Elrar]

Originally Posted by Aegorian

i dont see how it's possible. We've already had 1 post that indicates that they're quitting because of a theorized change to the death penalty. If i were a dev and read this, i'd be LESS willing to communicate changes and/or gather user feedback. Next thing you know "Hey guys! We're thinking about giving you more money drops off mobs... what do you think?"... "OMG I QUIT!". His opinion is his own of course, but how do you expect them to take feedback like that seriously? They're damned if they do, damned if they dont, and apparently damned if they simply think about it.

We always try to be as open and honest as possible about upcoming changes. Unfortunately many have jumped the gun on assuming the death penalty changes were going live.

In fact in a few hours we'll be removing the new mechanics after getting some great feedback and bug reports. Does this mean that the death mechanics will never change? No, but we are serious when we say that the test environment is exactly that.

There will be many times when we push something to test that will never go live or at least won't be recognizable if it does show up, others will. Its the nature of game design to test new concepts and mechanics to improve the systems we currently have.

We're always open for constructive criticism and to hear how the players feel about the current state of the game and how it could be better. We know there are still bugs and performance issues that we're working to fix daily.

It's a blessing and a curse to be able to change these games rapidly, so open communication with the community is necessary to ensure that we're doing the right thing.

Thanks all

[elektra]

Originally Posted by Elrar

We always try to be as open and honest as possible about upcoming changes. Unfortunately many have jumped the gun on assuming the death penalty changes were going live.

In fact in a few hours we'll be removing the new mechanics after getting some great feedback and bug reports. Does this mean that the death mechanics will never change? No, but we are serious when we say that the test environment is exactly that.

There will be many times when we push something to test that will never go live or at least won't be recognizable if it does show up, others will. Its the nature of game design to test new concepts and mechanics to improve the systems we currently have.

We're always open for constructive criticism and to hear how the players feel about the current state of the game and how it could be better. We know there are still bugs and performance issues that we're working to fix daily.

It's a blessing and a curse to be able to change these games rapidly, so open communication with the community is necessary to ensure that we're doing the right thing.

Thanks all

Ok, so you backed down and gave in to the hardcore. Bad move, there are a lot of us who would have welcomed the death changes.
Now you will just have pissed them off instead of the hardcore. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

However, I do suggest you fix the bugs which currently account for 99% of my deaths, or remove death altogether until you fix them.

[Elrar]

Originally Posted by elektra

Ok, so you backed down and gave in to the hardcore. Bad move, there are a lot of us who would have welcomed the death changes.

Not at all, we simply wanted to test the mechanics that are on test currently. We still feel the system is not where we want it to be, however, further testing and assessment is required.

[Mardy]

Thank you Elrar, I know you guys try hard, it's always hard to please the playerbase. I mean everybody wanted a "test server" right? But when you guys start "testing" things on the test server, people started to treat it like a live server lol. I feel for you guys.

I do think the current system can use some tweaks such as perhaps lessen the exp penalty when people summon their corpse to the altar. Also code in 2 release choices when people die, one says release to altar, other says release to altar with corpse. That way people will really know there's an option to summon in case they don't heh.

Anyways, keep up the good work.

[Isobel]

Originally Posted by elektra

Ok, so you backed down and gave in to the hardcore. Bad move, there are a lot of us who would have welcomed the death changes.
Now you will just have pissed them off instead of the hardcore. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

However, I do suggest you fix the bugs which currently account for 99% of my deaths, or remove death altogether until you fix it.

The current death mechanic isn't anything even a little bit "hardcore". Lots of people who play casually don't want death trivialized either.

I do agree that fixing the bugs that cause some people's deaths is a far better plan than than changing a working mechanic.