[Aidon]

Originally Posted by Isobel

It is making it easier. When you get your tombstone back (they can call it whatever they want. It's a tombstone. The lost tombstone bug still applies) you get all of your XP back. Just a minute ago, testing it on a character in the low thirties i before i died i had 51% into my level. When i got my tombstone back i was again 51% into my level. It's trivial. When i died, had i not gotten my tombstone back i would still only have lost 5%. That's what, three of four mobs?

Heh, maybe on test.

On a live server it can take 3 or 4 mobs to get 1% depending on dots levels group status, etc.

Soloing 2 dot red cons takes about 3-4 per percent for me at 34. 3 dot white cons seem to be about the same. Do you know how long it takes me to solo a red con 2 dot or white con 3 dot mob? =P T0 make up that 5% could take me 45 mins-hour, which is a significant chunk of most folks nightly playtime.

A death should never undo all of the xp work you've gained in an average night. That simply builds frustration and plain isn't fun.

[Isobel]

Originally Posted by Aidon

Heh, maybe on test.

On a live server it can take 3 or 4 mobs to get 1% depending on dots levels group status, etc.

Soloing 2 dot red cons takes about 3-4 per percent for me at 34. 3 dot white cons seem to be about the same. Do you know how long it takes me to solo a red con 2 dot or white con 3 dot mob? =P T0 make up that 5% could take me 45 mins-hour, which is a significant chunk of most folks nightly playtime.

A death should never undo all of the xp work you've gained in an average night. That simply builds frustration and plain isn't fun.

Yes, three or four mobs on test.

The fact is, the time invested in re-gaining your XP is waht gives death its sting. As i've said previously, time is the only thing of real value in an MMO. Time spent in recovering for character death gives value and incentive to keeping your character alive.

[creppingdeath]

Originally Posted by Isobel

Yes, three or four mobs on test.

The fact is, the time invested in re-gaining your XP is waht gives death its sting. As i've said previously, time is the only thing of real value in an MMO. Time spent in recovering for character death gives value and incentive to keeping your character alive.

This mentality is one of the things killing this game, this grand idea that it's all about time and a grand sense of accomplishment because you either didn’t die or did X corpse runs. For the vast majority of people it's about fun, entertainment, and relaxing after they have put their time in at their job not time invested. Frankly VG right now is missing that factor for alot of people.

If you want to go out and experience a time/corpse runs or lack of equal challenge or success, join the Army they even will give you medals and a pension for time served while avoiding "the sting of death"

[Isobel]

Originally Posted by creppingdeath

This mentality is one of the things killing this game, this grand idea that it's all about time and a grand sense of accomplishment because you either didn’t die or did X corpse runs. For the vast majority of people it's about fun, entertainment, and relaxing after they have put their time in at their job not time invested. Frankly VG right now is missing that factor for alot of people.

If you want to go out and experience a time/corpse runs or lack of equal challenge or success, join the Army they even will give you medals and a pension for time served while avoiding "the sting of death"

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?

You don't think CRs are fun, that's great. Don't do them. It's your choice. You get to decide which is more valuable to you; the chance to summon and get back to hunting or the chance to regain your lost XP and then some by fighting back to your stone.

[Nostalgix]

Originally Posted by creppingdeath

This mentality is one of the things killing this game, this grand idea that it's all about time and a grand sense of accomplishment because you either didn’t die or did X corpse runs. For the vast majority of people it's about fun, entertainment, and relaxing after they have put their time in at their job not time invested. Frankly VG right now is missing that factor for alot of people.

If you want to go out and experience a time/corpse runs or lack of equal challenge or success, join the Army they even will give you medals and a pension for time served while avoiding "the sting of death"

Imagine ...
You die. A window pops up asking "Do you want to continue ? Yes/No".
You click on "Yes" and rezz with full health/mana and equipment and resume the fight vs the big evil mob that just kicked your ass.
Wouldn't that be fantastic ?! Wouldn't that be awesome gameplay ?!?
That would be like ... Tetris ... err or ... Super Mario .. errr hmmm .. wait ...

[Cavaras]

I wont quit even if they make this game super easy, its not about the game being easy to me, its about the friendships you make and the FUN that you have. there does need to be stuff added, and they know it and are doing the best they can to bring it to us. We have to be patient and just enjoy the art and people we meet to socialize with. Would be nice if in the short term they added some fun things though, such as drinking contests, fishing, and some gm events, heck even add some gambleing to the mix, stuff to keep people interested in MMOS has alot to do with player and GM driven events, there needs to be more of them. I played EQ1, EQ2, WOW for many years, EQ1 being my favorite due to the decent amount of GM events, it made the world more alive and took away the feel that u wait for mob a to spawn and kill him then loot his item then goto mob b, kill it, then go turn in item for reward. It makes the world a bit more unexpected..

[Yurin]

Originally Posted by Soluss

Yes Elrar that is totally needed. I think 1 big problem is there is no benefit to grouping. It needs to stand out. For instance. Gear...you can get gear that is equal to anything you can group for. XP you can get just as good xp solo as you can in grouping. Give reasons for people to go into dungeons (better quest rewards then you can get by soloing or buying/ better loot drops off namers/ big xp bonus both for group and for dungeons themselves). There is no enticement to group when the risk far outweighs the reward. There is no enticement to group when it is much more efficient to solo.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying they should not have solo content. I think it should be possible to solo all the way.... I just think it should be harder xp to solo (like was advertised) and I think the rewards should nowhere near be as good...or atleast not come anywhere near as easy. There is a difference between forced grouping and enticed grouping. As long as you have a path to do both for everyone but the rewards are better for a group it is fine imo.

And what a farce....another of the core aspects this game was supposedly based on was that it was to be group centric. In their blind panic to keep/gain subscriptions they tried to make the game more like WoW, they've turned it into such a solo orientated game that people just don't need to group much and therefore its very difficult for people to find groups. So what do they need to do now, re-look at making grouping viable again, somthing that was in the original design. What an absolute mess of indecision.

As to the OP's question I cancelled over the proposed changes. The fact that they were even on test and the reasoning behind them was the final straw for me. This game is going no where near the direction it was portrayed during development. Every change is aimed at the WoW type player. Sigil can resent that as much as they like but every change indicates it to be the case.

here is an example of why I cant play this game anymore, an example of Sigil's direction....

Elrar mentions earlier in this thread, (as a reason for reducing xp loss on death even more), that 10% xp penalty is a lot to some people as thats all they make in a night. My question is why are changes to the death penalty being considered in order to cater to those who only make 10% level a night? Why do all the people, who bought this game on its design intention of having a meaningful death penalty, have to put up with a reduced death penalty for this group that make 10% a night.

Here's the situation, player A, the 10% a night man, takes 10 nights to make 1 level if he never dies! If he were to die a couple of times during his progression through a level, whereby he couldnt get back to his corpse and had to take the full xp hit, he would take 12 nights to gain that level. So again my question is why is the death penalty being made easier to cater for this type of player, why does this typr of player dictate the death penalty and everyone else just has to go with it, just so he can level in 10 days instead of 12!!!!

This, Sigils total U-turn on their intended target player is what sent me to the unsubscribe button. I am not saying I will never come back, but it is very unlikely if they continue in this direction. Historically, over time, all MMOG's seem to get easier (apart from WoW of course as that couldnt get any easier) that being the case, based on the changes continually being made now to make things easier, how much like WoW will this game be in a year, the only diffference will be the graphics at this rate.

[Aulfauf]

I consider myself a casual player and I think that death should hurt.
Death penalty is too soft right now imo, but I can live with that.

Why should death hurt ?
If I am in a dungeon, there must be the fear of death, to make it exciting (to me). I want myself to take care and look behind me from time to time to see if there are wanderers around. I want that adrenalin kick, when my group pulls a mob and suddenly there is a respawn behind the healer and things get out of control and everyone tries its best to handle the situation, because nobody wants to die. I want my group to discuss how to take out that named before us....and so on.
If death does not hurt, there is no real thrill in those situations. And makes the world feel less like a world.

I believe that a lot of people that dislike "the sting of death" simply cant deal with the frustration. It has (imo!) NOTHING to do with time or something else. They want to accomplish everything(=reward), but if they fail, they dont want the consequences (=penalty). (Imo!) this seems to be more true for younger and imature people.

[rhagz]

Originally Posted by Isobel

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?

Sorry, but I am calling bullshit right here. No person who was awarded the purple heart would act like the pompous ass you are on an internet message board for a video game.

[Aegorian]

Originally Posted by rhagz

Sorry, but I am calling bullshit right here. No person who was awarded the purple heart would act like the pompous ass you are on an internet message board for a video game.

Well you win the "I Make Zero Sense" award for the day.

[GiggsBeckham11]

Originally Posted by Shandor

Hi all.

Well like many others (i think) i did quit VG a Wile ago because of the way VG Turned since some time. You know, Challenging and Hard to Simple and Easy.

I would like to know what Sigil should do to make you come back if you have already Quit or planing to Quit VG soon.

In my personal opinion its very intresting what you all thinking and i hope we can get a Discussion running here without that much Trolling

Shandor

PS: English is not my Native language so i hope you could understand what im talking about at all *g*.

I have no intention of leaving Vanguard anytime soon. I have played through Beta and live for over 7 months now and have enjoyed my time within Telon immensely. I have seen it grow mmeasurably from my first forays in Beta and continue to watch it develop.

[Baseline]

I'll come back when there's an actual incentive to PvP in this game, and when they iron out all the pets 1-shotting damage BS and paladins DOV damage in PvP.

[owmart]

One posible solution to the grouping problem is a extemely simple answer in my mind:
1) Give Characters with the summon ability, the ability to summon any player within a chunk (like COH\COV) and not just near dungeouns
2) Give certain classes like druids and Sorcerors the ability to port to different locations all over the continents (Like EQ1)

I think it would be a quick win for the game. I would imagine that the devs are probably just scared to implement such a fix because its ideas from other games. However, in my mind if i was creating a game i would use the best ideas from successful MMO's to build upon.

This is just my opinion....

[Aegorian]

Originally Posted by owmart

One posible solution to the grouping problem is a extemely simple answer in my mind:
1) Give Characters with the summon ability, the ability to summon any player within a chunk (like COH\COV) and not just near dungeouns
2) Give certain classes like druids and Sorcerors the ability to port to different locations all over the continents (Like EQ1)

I think it would be a quick win for the game. I would imagine that the devs are probably just scared to implement such a fix because its ideas from other games. However, in my mind if i was creating a game i would use the best ideas from successful MMO's to build upon.

This is just my opinion....

1st point, sure.
2nd point, hell no. Putting money making abilities in the hands of a few classes FTL. I'd rather not see people make careers off of abilities they learned by clicking on a trainer or did some overly easy quest for. Ports should be controlled via NPC and be readily available to all... not just when your local Wizard happens to be online.

[Loreley27]

I did not yet quit, but am in the way of doing so - means I log in a lot less frequently, and overall have lost most interest in playing.

Sigil could keep me as customer if they
- would keep a line for their game (I wouldn't necessarily quit if it keeps getting easier, but watering down every effort I made in the next or second-next patch really gets boring and takes out any incentives to do anything)
- would make bans or, if not possible, at least give an apology for letting exploits like the "clicky-effects" happen, NOT just patch it away 12! hours after getting live and leave all honest players like "you didn't exploit? well, we love exploiters and want them to get what you do not because you like honest competition"
- make a concept that works for equipment - at the moment most high-levels have equipment out of their 30s because it's just better than the high-level gear (the little there is)
- get at least SOME interesting encounters into game ... I like the dungeons in Vanguard generally, but it gets very boring when every named I see has 50% more hp than the average mob, and that's it ... no special skills, no different/more advanced AI, nothing ... just loot in a bag (loot which is generally not worth anything).

[Swayde]

I haven't quit, but there's really not much keeping me atm. Basically what is keeping me is that I have a great guild and I paid for 6 months to get a better deal on the monthly fee.

I've been frustrated since before launch basically and very seriously came close to buying LoTRO instead of Vanguard, I was in beta for both of them (my friends are split between the two games with a couple stragglers in WoW still). The reason for pre-launch frustrations is that I wanted to be a Kurasasha Rogue Alchemist, well Alchemy didn't make it for lunch, and Rogues were really boring for me (I played one in beta). Soooo I decided to stick with what I know and love, healing, but the only healer for Kuras is Disciple and I didn't care for it nearly as much as a Shaman, Cleric or Blood Mage....btw, why on earth can Kuras be Disciples and not Shaman or Blood Mages???? I mean, really a Blood Mage would fit into the lore so well, they can create symbiotes, your newbie experience revolves around symbiotes!

Anyhow the issues I've had...I made the mistake of creating on Kojan, and then to make it even worse, I chose to be a Carpenter because I wanted to make furniture for my house and a boat for my husband and I to get around on. WOW could I have been any more stupid? Finding things to do as an adventurer on Kojan was so hard, then I finally learn the continent is not finished and that it's designed for me to have to go to Qalia or Thestra. What a shame, Kojan is so beautiful...Then I hit 21 in Carpentry and cannot complete my boat quest!!! I had to wait until a patch was put in to fix the bugs so I could complete it. At least some furniture did finally make it into the game, but I haven't had a chance to experiement with it and I don't have a house yet.

So since then I've dealt with my tools not working, faction requirements being changed on me a few times and many other annoying little bugs. And that's not counting general CTD's and lock ups, getting stuck in geography, getting booted from my group, losing loot due to bugs with the loot options...etc.

Okay, now on a more personal level... I've recently had several things IRL keeping me from playing nearly as much as I would like to. Totally not Sigil's fault, I am completely aware of that. BUT, when I do get a chance to log in, almost every single time, I have no guildchat/groupchat...wtf??? That has been going on since beta and I've not seen any mention of them even working on the problem (Maybe I missed it /shrug). So when I am already stressed out IRL and then I go to log in for 20-30 minutes to catch up on what my guildmates have been up to, I can't! And even zoning doesn't always fix it reliably so I have to log out to desktop and come back, sometimes as much as 3-4 times! Well my computer isn't the most powerful (it does however exceed the minimum and is either at, or near the recommended), logging in and out takes time, by the time I can actually communicate all I get to say is, hi guys, well my time is up, see ya later and log out =/

It hurts, it really does. I was the one who told all of my friends about this game. I have been following it for years, literally. And I am just so frustrated and disappointed. I certainly hope that things improve enough over the next 5 months of my subscription so that my husband and I don't end up moving on and leaving behind our great guild that we both really like. Being able to communicate reliably with my guild and group would REALLY be a HUGE improvement that might make it easier to overlook some of the other annoying bugs.

[sweetdigs]

Originally Posted by Pherillion

I

False information? The "casuals" in general weren't threatening to quit - they were saying they didn't like the change. It was the "hardcores" that were throwing around threats to quit over a proposed change that they disliked. See the difference?

.

Umm.. Yeah, of course the casuals weren't threatening to quit because it wasn't one of the things that really mattered to them. It did matter to those of us who want a game with risk versus reward. If the devs decided to remove soloing from the game, how many of those "casuals" do you think would then be threatening to quit? Probably all of them. Yet although a lot of us "hardcores" would say we don't really like the change (not all, but most), we wouldn't threaten to quit about it.

Capiche?

[HarmonyShidreth]

The only change I want to this game is to have more people in it, problem is that I think the changes they are making now could have meant for more people playing the game in the beginning, but at this point i think that ship has sailed. The "casual" crowd has long since been turned off of this game and the "hard core" crowd is getting turned off by the changes made recently.

I think these recent death mechanic changes are just plain foolish, but it isn't exactly the end of the world.

[ikaoma420]

Originally Posted by rhagz

Sorry, but I am calling bullshit right here. No person who was awarded the purple heart would act like the pompous ass you are on an internet message board for a video game.

Well not to argue but its not like its the Bronze star Medal or Legion of Merit. It is awarded to soldiers wounded or killed in action. They were actually given out on the spot in Vietnam. I have a few friends who received them during the first Desert Storm. Some of them might I add are just like me argumentative pricks HAHA.

I'm not taking anything away from you Isobel. I totally respect what you have done for this country.

[Juk]

Originally Posted by Isobel

I've actually served in the military, thank you. I got all kinds of shiny medals. One of them is purple and shaped like a heart. How about you try real hard throttle back on the idiocy when posting about the military k, creeping?

You don't think CRs are fun, that's great. Don't do them. It's your choice. You get to decide which is more valuable to you; the chance to summon and get back to hunting or the chance to regain your lost XP and then some by fighting back to your stone.

*salute*
Thankyou for making the point so clear.

And, thankyou for serving our country!