[Hopfrog]

Three letters; EOA.

I stopped playing Everquest Online Adventures 2 years ago. It is a playstation 2 MMO that I really didn't see people playing all that much during its heyday.

I STILL get newsletters about all the content that keeps getting added to it. If that SOE game didn't "die", I doubt SOE will ever let VG "die".

So please lets not panic. I think all of us who enjoy the game know its gonna be a long term thing. The game is setup to be enjoyed over the long haul and unfortunately it appears so does its development.

[vancrapola]

Originally Posted by Hopfrog

Three letters; EOA.

I stopped playing Everquest Online Adventures 2 years ago. It is a playstation 2 MMO that I really didn't see people playing all that much during its heyday.

I STILL get newsletters about all the content that keeps getting added to it. If that SOE game didn't "die", I doubt SOE will ever let VG "die".

So please lets not panic. I think all of us who enjoy the game know its gonna be a long term thing. The game is setup to be enjoyed over the long haul and unfortunately it appears so does its development.

Damn bro is eoa still kickin? I thought that was dead and buried for sure.

[Loampounder]

MxO is still going. Only game I know to have closes is AC2.

[kcxiv]

I am starting to get discouraged now. I was always trying to think positive, but its just hard to when you look at the server populations and they are horrible. I dont think any server even breaks high. I been looking, I have seen a few mediums but thats about it.

I dont know how the hell people are going to raid in this game. I can barely handle 6 people in a dungeon. lol

now i have some friends telling me that they can field a full raid and no lag on the beta game. It kind of breaks your spirits. I hope they can turn this game around, but its going to be damn hard.

Anyways, thats my only negative post. Its just getting frustrating, i dont even log in much becuase there isnt shit to do.

[taurus999s]

VG won't die. It will just be a bland also-ran game. If that's the kind of game that people likes, more power to them.

After 30M and 5 years, you would think the result should be a cool game with some slickness to it. Instead you get the 'it has potential' as the best general comments.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by taurus999s

VG won't die. It will just be a bland also-ran game. If that's the kind of game that people likes, more power to them.

After 30M and 5 years, you would think the result should be a cool game with some slickness to it. Instead you get the 'it has potential' as the best general comments.

because it does, but they completely F'ed up the launch. I havent had as many problems as other people, actually i dont have problems with the game itself, but i know alot of people do. That and hardly any 40plus content is killing them.

[Baseline]

The reason the game is so screwed is because by time the hardware becomes "mainstream" to run this game well on the average persons computer, and by mainstream I mean the majority of people interested in computer games have computers to run this game well, there will already be warhammer and AOC coming out, and that's just going to totally obliterate any shot this game had of becoming a top game.

It's like not only did this game have bad timing on relase getting tag-teamed by TBC and LOTRO, but also by time most people can run it, they'll be playing AOC and warhammer. Then you pile all the other problems with this game for content, pvp, bugs on top of that and it's just too clear that any rational person shouldn't expect this game to do better than 200K consistently, ever.

[Luren]

Originally Posted by Baseline

it's just too clear that any rational person shouldn't expect this game to do better than 200K consistently, ever.

Obviously, not many rational people around here at all.

So what if the game only has around 200k subscribers?

200k box sales, at £40 a time - £8,000,000
200k subs at £14.99 - £2,998,000 (per month)

Those figures do not look bad at all (ok, not everyone pays £, some pay $/whatever, exchange rates differ and such, still not bad figures)

Discounting box sales, the game only has to run with 200k subs for around 10 months to cover the 30mil (not counting running costs, as only Sigil/SOE know what they are, and I doubt they will publish those)

In my view, any rational person playing this game would be happy with those figures, as they show the game is a viable entity, hell, even if they only have 150k subs, as some people have suggested, just over a year (around 13 months) covers the 30mil costs (not counting any box sales)

[Atoyota]

Originally Posted by Luren

Obviously, not many rational people around here at all.

So what if the game only has around 200k subscribers?

200k box sales, at £40 a time - £8,000,000
200k subs at £14.99 - £2,998,000 (per month)

Those figures do not look bad at all (ok, not everyone pays £, some pay $/whatever, exchange rates differ and such, still not bad figures)

Discounting box sales, the game only has to run with 200k subs for around 10 months to cover the 30mil (not counting running costs, as only Sigil/SOE know what they are, and I doubt they will publish those)

In my view, any rational person playing this game would be happy with those figures, as they show the game is a viable entity, hell, even if they only have 150k subs, as some people have suggested, just over a year (around 13 months) covers the 30mil costs (not counting any box sales)

I don't think it will do that well over 1 year, not with what I see coming.
Even then that's 1 year just paying debt, as you said, not operating costs nor interest on the debt, because borrowed money is not "free".

Still I don't predict it coming to an end soon, just a lingering persistance with an eventual end if changes are'nt made, and quickly. They already know this, so nuff said.

[AsheMan]

If DDO is still alive and kicking then VG has no worries at all!

[Kelenvor]

Yea but EOA has already paid itself off. We have to worry about VG recouping all it's development costs. Once that happens, it can sail without requiring a ton of players. So, yes I am worried. I really love the game but would be sad to see the bank start to repo the equipment.

[Melios]

Originally Posted by Baseline

The reason the game is so screwed is because by time the hardware becomes "mainstream" to run this game well on the average persons computer, and by mainstream I mean the majority of people interested in computer games have computers to run this game well, there will already be warhammer and AOC coming out, and that's just going to totally obliterate any shot this game had of becoming a top game.

It's like not only did this game have bad timing on relase getting tag-teamed by TBC and LOTRO, but also by time most people can run it, they'll be playing AOC and warhammer. Then you pile all the other problems with this game for content, pvp, bugs on top of that and it's just too clear that any rational person shouldn't expect this game to do better than 200K consistently, ever.

And how do you know AOC & Warhammer won't be riddled with issues at launch like VG/EQ2/WOW/etc.?

[takaris7]

Originally Posted by Atoyota

I don't think it will do that well over 1 year, not with what I see coming.
Even then that's 1 year just paying debt, as you said, not operating costs nor interest on the debt, because borrowed money is not "free".

Still I don't predict it coming to an end soon, just a lingering persistance with an eventual end if changes are'nt made, and quickly. They already know this, so nuff said.

doom and gloom. Im sure the developers want their money, their jobs, their comfort. Im sure they will work hard to get this game to the level that they/and sony are satisfied.

No one is entirely sure what money they make..what part of it is Station Pass...how much they are getting of that...salaries...extra do dads. whatever.

People like the game cause people like the game. People still like Matrix online and i dont hound them about how much money its making. I dont like LOTRO all that much so far...its silly and looks funny...people are angry on their boards already about this or that.

They run the bizz, they can handle it. If not..then we will see the game go the way of Dark & Light. (which for some reason is still online)

[MagicNumbers]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

I am starting to get discouraged now. I was always trying to think positive, but its just hard to when you look at the server populations and they are horrible. I dont think any server even breaks high. I been looking, I have seen a few mediums but thats about it.

I dont know how the hell people are going to raid in this game. I can barely handle 6 people in a dungeon. lol

now i have some friends telling me that they can field a full raid and no lag on the beta game. It kind of breaks your spirits. I hope they can turn this game around, but its going to be damn hard.

Anyways, thats my only negative post. Its just getting frustrating, i dont even log in much becuase there isnt shit to do.

On Shidreth yesterday there was the most people I ahve ever seen in the game. Everywhere I went there were group upon group of people, which also unfortunately meant lag for me heheh. I did a whole tour from Thestra to Qalia and nothing was empty for some reason.

[gervaise]

Sigh.

1. Last I checked SoE does not own Vanguard. They are simply providing a service. In many ways Vanguard is a competitor to EQ2 etc. so they are probably not that bothered tbh. All Vanguard is to SoE is another game for the station pass and the ability to provide some server/billing type stuff.

Now if Vanguard had proved to be the mega-million draw that SoE no doubt hoped then it would have been very useful in potentially drawing folks to EQ. As it is ....

2. It has not yet been stated that Vanguard has 200k sales. The phrase used was 'would have preferred it to have been approaching 300k or 400k rather than 200k'. NOTE: use of the word approaching. It has subsequently been clarified that this number is sales and not subscriptions.

3. Brad has said that the game need 200k-300k subscriptions to be profitable - I assume the range is because the amount they get from a Station Access pass person depends on what other games thay play. Now if SoE buy the game then it will operate under a different economic framework - those PS2 EQ players may have decided to play the PC version etc. - as of today however its success or failure is in its own hands.

[Mreynolds]

Originally Posted by Luren

Obviously, not many rational people around here at all.

So what if the game only has around 200k subscribers?

200k box sales, at £40 a time - £8,000,000
200k subs at £14.99 - £2,998,000 (per month)

Those figures do not look bad at all (ok, not everyone pays £, some pay $/whatever, exchange rates differ and such, still not bad figures)

Discounting box sales, the game only has to run with 200k subs for around 10 months to cover the 30mil (not counting running costs, as only Sigil/SOE know what they are, and I doubt they will publish those)

In my view, any rational person playing this game would be happy with those figures, as they show the game is a viable entity, hell, even if they only have 150k subs, as some people have suggested, just over a year (around 13 months) covers the 30mil costs (not counting any box sales)

People use this logic all the time when talking about WOW but that logic is flawed just like it is here. You are taking many things into account. Yes it has 30M in backing to pay back. But you forget that some of the subs are station access which only sees a percentage. Some of the subs will always be in that free month due to people trying the game out. Some of the money automatically goes to Sony to pay for their part in all this. And then you cant forget the current expenses. Something tells me they arent working for free and the landlord and utilities arent being very charitable.

Also saying that games like DDO and EOA are still around is also flawed in that they had small production costs by already established companies who could most likely take a hit. Granted Turbine has taken a could of those hits they have what appears to be a monster coming out in a couple weeks. If VG lives it will because of sustained customers with the hopes of drawing in all those that said they would wait 6 months. Or they will as someone has suggested in another post sell to SOE which has the money to back the project and get it in working order.

[Bhron]

In all seriousness, I hope the game tanks like i predict, and makes other game companies think twice about releasing games in such horrible states. Wishfull thinking I know, but I hope it happens. At this point, in my op, thats the only thing this "3rd gen" game can bring to the genre. A warning for other companies.

[Muggi]

Originally Posted by Mreynolds

Granted Turbine has taken a could of those hits they have what appears to be a monster coming out in a couple weeks.

Eh..take it from someone that has seen LOTRO throughout Beta, it's visually nice and a change of pace, but the game itself sucks. Turbine has floated another lead zeppelin.

You're probably right in that LOTRO will see a bigger initial subscription than VG did, and the game plays smoother and with fewer bugs, but I really do not see it being the monster so many believe it will be.

[Mreynolds]

Originally Posted by Muggi

Eh..take it from someone that has seen LOTRO throughout Beta, it's visually nice and a change of pace, but the game itself sucks. Turbine has floated another lead zeppelin.

You're probably right in that LOTRO will see a bigger initial subscription than VG did, and the game plays smoother and with fewer bugs, but I really do not see it being the monster so many believe it will be.

When I say monster just to clarify I mean in the sense of compared to their other offerings. Thats the context I was using. But 750k initial isnt out of the question as I do think the WoWers will gravitate to it if they look for something new at all. I am in beta to and although not my cup of tea it is quite nice initially from a polish standpoint.

[Oogg]

Originally Posted by gervaise

3. Brad has said that the game need 200k-300k subscriptions to be profitable - I assume the range is because the amount they get from a Station Access pass person depends on what other games thay play. Now if SoE buy the game then it will operate under a different economic framework - those PS2 EQ players may have decided to play the PC version etc. - as of today however its success or failure is in its own hands.

Quote from Brad:
"I believe I said it needed 200k-300k to be successful, and that I hoped to see 500k after the game was out 1 year, which would make it very profitable. So far we are in the mid 150s which is less than I would have hoped, but still good and still growing."
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/retar...tml#post689707