[parki]

Dude, 1200? I highly doubt that...

Could you please test the numbers with equal level mobs?

You could post your level, str and weapons, along with the mob level, dots, kind and location.

[Spottycat]

Originally Posted by Therian

BTW Penth - can I put in a plea to not make Ten Ton Hammer the bug list home? I can't read that site due to horrific design. [Or is it no longer so lurid and hard to read?]

I second this request, Penth
Please, do `not` make TenTonHammer the bug list home. The site while useful in some aspects, is horrific to view compared to sites like this one.

If we can keep it here, that would be awesome... even if there are a sizable number of irrational complaints and requests being made for the disciple class in these forums.

[Roamer]

I parsed my damage on Xenn 3dots before the patch and after, my damage is EXACTLY the same. Noticed no difference at all either in auto attack damage, nor in ability damage.

Two things I noticed:
- Ra'Jin Flare now actually seems to be using the evocation skill. This makes it resist A LOT now (as my skill is nearly non-existant), but the skill is going up.
- Endowment of Balance is either broken or the logging information about it has to be activated in some way (I didn't check that). Anyway, I see the info in the log "You cast EoB on yourself" but never the message when it fires.

[Dakirn]

Sigh doesn't look promising so far. I can't check for myself for another 7 hours yet

On a unrelated note, has anyone turned in a Gavel in the Pantheon to get the new legendary ulak yet? If so could you post a screenshots or the stats?

[Therian]

Originally Posted by Roamer

Two things I noticed:
- Ra'Jin Flare now actually seems to be using the evocation skill. This makes it resist A LOT now (as my skill is nearly non-existant), but the skill is going up.

Oh! That explains it. I was wondering whether it was the mobs I was fighting.

Damage on some skills seems to be ever-so-slightly higher, but I didn't get an impression of any significant increase.

[Spottycat]

It's really nice to finally see a Disciple class lead. Welcome Penth and if anyone tries to give you flak... just use Dodge, as it never fails.

Personal List of Desired Changes/Fixes:

• Petal/Lotus: Changed to group buffs... even if it means duration reduction.
• Feign Death: Progress Cooldown Reduction through leveling.
• Multiple Disciple Bond Stacking: Allow multiple disciples to stack identical bonds on a given target, including the same bond as one another... With 2 Disciples in the party, both could chose to use a debuff on a target rather than trying to be faster than one another.
• New Endowments: Increase Mastery, Change Balance to something useful... Add more Endowments for level 26+ players...
• Retool on seemingly useless skills:
  • Lao'Jin Flare: Unaffected by global cooldown (Similar to wands and bonds) while still retaining it's individual 15s cooldown... right now the global cooldown makes this skill nearly useless to use as an instant heal and frequently does not add to the survivability of our target.
  • Ra'Jin Flare (reduce jin cost and/or improve damage, regardless the 15s cooldown makes this skill nearly useless)...
  • Kiss of Torment: Pull this out from behind dodge and make it a 200% ranged weapon damage skill on the existing 15s cooldown)... we already have Sun Fist for counter-attacking, which is more useful anyway. Having a skill that is only useful when we are rooted and happen to dodge... which we can only reuse ever 15s... it's futile and useless... It needs changed and would be a nice reward to people who bothered to level up their ranged weapon for 40 levels.
  • Baiting Strike: (increase the hate boost granted to our defensive target and lose the cooldown, turn it into an endurance+energy cost skill so it's actually worth using at the beginning of a fight to generate tank agro)

We still have a couple skills that aren't functioning, but they're already known about and it's basically like kicking a dead horse... for two months.

Hopefully these two cents can be spent on class improvements.

[Hokonoso]

yup another huge dmg decrease, well tooltip dmg is up by 5% but no abilites were changed and actual dmg is less.. sure none of this makes sense but im doing noticiably way less dmg than before, also my 2hers are not doing double crit white dmg.

[Spottycat]

Damage Changes:

Auto Attack:
My test subjects are the level 45-46 2-dot Undead Exiles outside of Nusibe Necropolis. I was just fighting them before the patch and remember the damage numbers.

Auto-attack damage:
Before the patch: 450-480 per hit.
After the patch: 480-520 per hit.

The improvement seems to be roughly 10-12% on base damage.

Special Skills:
As for my special skills, I remember paying attention to Soul Cutter V right before I logged out before this patch with my buffs cast on myself.

Before Patch: Agro reduction was roughly 700-770.
After Patch: Agro reduction is now 779-825.

Based on the change to the agro reduction, it would seem to me that there was roughly a 7-10% change on this skill, but obviously my numbers are far from perfectly accurate since this is based on an assumption that they simply changed the percentage scale value of Soul Cutter V in order to improve the damage... which is probably what they did across the board.

[parmenion747]

Originally Posted by Spottycat

I second this request, Penth
Please, do `not` make TenTonHammer the bug list home. The site while useful in some aspects, is horrific to view compared to sites like this one.

If we can keep it here, that would be awesome... even if there are a sizable number of irrational complaints and requests being made for the disciple class in these forums.

Just to show it's not universal I prefer the design at TTH, far less maudlin and easier to read without pulling the blinds, but anyway con-ordinating between all the different sites is always going to be something of a headache.

[shermhead]

haha silly kung-fu healers.. give it up and max out vit/wis and be a backup healer

[Kaori Delight]

Originally Posted by Dashel

What level stuff were you autoattacking for 1200? I'll check when I get home, I'm parked near some level 24-25 stuff.

1200 autoattack on exp mobs.. lvl 50 4 dots, im specced all str/dex, my gear is all str/dex.. i've seen 2000 damage autoattack crits

i'll see if i have screenshots, but i'm not lying

they nerfed us, and they nerfed us hard

Originally Posted by parki

Dude, 1200? I highly doubt that...

Could you please test the numbers with equal level mobs?

You could post your level, str and weapons, along with the mob level, dots, kind and location.

level 49, 410 str self buffed dont remember what im at with other buffers in the group, graystone bladestaff.. level 50 mobs, 4 dots, undead/zombie? nusibe necropolis

i was hitting for 600 autoattack on level 45, 2 dots, in tahatamani harbour after the patch.. that's a huge damage difference, considering the level/dot difference

[Desu]

Originally Posted by Kaori Delight

1200 autoattack on exp mobs.. lvl 50 4 dots, im specced all str/dex, my gear is all str/dex.. i've seen 2000 damage autoattack crits

i'll see if i have screenshots, but i'm not lying

they nerfed us, and they nerfed us hard



level 49, 410 str self buffed dont remember what im at with other buffers in the group, graystone bladestaff.. level 50 mobs, 4 dots, undead/zombie? nusibe necropolis

i was hitting for 600 autoattack on level 45, 2 dots, in tahatamani harbour after the patch.. that's a huge damage difference, considering the level/dot difference

No offense, but you CANNOT compare group dmg, to solo dmg.

1. More buffs, Especially if you had a cleric, your dmg would be much higher with their increased str and their 20% dmg increase and + dmg.

2. Mitigation reduction from other classes = you do more dmg.

3. Bard song

Solo, at lvl 50, i hit with graystone staff around 550ish if i remember correctly, when i was soloing. This is Auto Attack.

I dont doubt you were hitting 1200 auto attack because you are specced that way + group benefits add ALOT.

This is another issue that needs to be looked into. In a group my auto attack damage goes way up, but my specials dont get touched it seems. So i do more damage just turning on auto-attack and letting it pound away then i do if i hit Soul cutter repeatedly, and thats our highest non finisher.

[Dashel]

Originally Posted by Kaori Delight

1200 autoattack on exp mobs.. lvl 50 4 dots, im specced all str/dex, my gear is all str/dex.. i've seen 2000 damage autoattack crits

i'll see if i have screenshots, but i'm not lying

they nerfed us, and they nerfed us hard



level 49, 410 str self buffed dont remember what im at with other buffers in the group, graystone bladestaff.. level 50 mobs, 4 dots, undead/zombie? nusibe necropolis

i was hitting for 600 autoattack on level 45, 2 dots, in tahatamani harbour after the patch.. that's a huge damage difference, considering the level/dot difference

I dont think you're lying, but I think you're maybe comparing something very different. Not sure how you were doing 1200 auto, perhaps the mobs were being debuffed, maybe it's the mobs in the necropolis, I know I used to hit those skeletons for a ton when xping there. The little 2 dots outside though 600's sounds about right, maybe a little low.

Anyway, I save my logs, I'll check when I get home but I'm suspecting not much has changed either way.

[Kaori Delight]

fine, i'm going to go kill them, in a group, and i will show you that we were nerfed

[Spottycat]

Originally Posted by shermhead

haha silly kung-fu healers.. give it up and max out vit/wis and be a backup healer

Ha! Isn't that your job? Cast your buffs and get out of the way for real healers. Lengthy fights just isn't your thing, cleric.

[Spottycat]

Originally Posted by Kaori Delight

fine, i'm going to go kill them, in a group, and i will show you that we were nerfed

I look forward to seeing your controlled experiment in action.

I did the numbers specifically... solo... same place as the place you're referencing and I see evidence of a damage increase of 7-12%.

The only thing I can think of is that you're comparing group damage output to solo damage output... just like the others are insinuating about this situation you're bringing up.

Bring us some numbers, otherwise I'm pretty sure I've already got reasonably solid numbers already from my tests seeing as the only change in my reference is the patch modification.

Unless you can provide pre-patch self-buffed soloing combat statistics against the enemies that you're going to do your post-patch test against... you can't really back up your claim... the best you could do is reassemble the group you had before and try to recreate the conditions as closely as possible.

[Azathul]

Originally Posted by Dashel

I dont think you're lying, but I think you're maybe comparing something very different. Not sure how you were doing 1200 auto, perhaps the mobs were being debuffed, maybe it's the mobs in the necropolis, I know I used to hit those skeletons for a ton when xping there. The little 2 dots outside though 600's sounds about right, maybe a little low.

Anyway, I save my logs, I'll check when I get home but I'm suspecting not much has changed either way.

I seem to recall someone pointing out that skeletons take more damage from blunt weapons. Though I can't say what damage type the bladestaff is categorized as, you'd think blade, but with Sigil it is difficult to tell.

[Hokonoso]

Originally Posted by Spottycat

I look forward to seeing your controlled experiment in action.

I did the numbers specifically... solo... same place as the place you're referencing and I see evidence of a damage increase of 7-12%.

The only thing I can think of is that you're comparing group damage output to solo damage output... just like the others are insinuating about this situation you're bringing up.

Bring us some numbers, otherwise I'm pretty sure I've already got reasonably solid numbers already from my tests seeing as the only change in my reference is the patch modification.

Unless you can provide pre-patch self-buffed soloing combat statistics against the enemies that you're going to do your post-patch test against... you can't really back up your claim... the best you could do is reassemble the group you had before and try to recreate the conditions as closely as possible.

Using graystone staff with max str my tooltip dmg before patch was 768, now it is 796, mobs appearing to hit harder and have more hp thus when not fighting undead skeletons our dmg is way lower than last patch even with the tiny boost in dmg, maybe if you have less str you noticed a bigger increase but with 600 str i didnt even get a 5% increase in dmg.

[Hokonoso]

Originally Posted by Spottycat

I look forward to seeing your controlled experiment in action.

I did the numbers specifically... solo... same place as the place you're referencing and I see evidence of a damage increase of 7-12%.

The only thing I can think of is that you're comparing group damage output to solo damage output... just like the others are insinuating about this situation you're bringing up.

Bring us some numbers, otherwise I'm pretty sure I've already got reasonably solid numbers already from my tests seeing as the only change in my reference is the patch modification.

Unless you can provide pre-patch self-buffed soloing combat statistics against the enemies that you're going to do your post-patch test against... you can't really back up your claim... the best you could do is reassemble the group you had before and try to recreate the conditions as closely as possible.

Originally Posted by Kaori Delight

1200 autoattack on exp mobs.. lvl 50 4 dots, im specced all str/dex, my gear is all str/dex.. i've seen 2000 damage autoattack crits

i'll see if i have screenshots, but i'm not lying

they nerfed us, and they nerfed us hard



level 49, 410 str self buffed dont remember what im at with other buffers in the group, graystone bladestaff.. level 50 mobs, 4 dots, undead/zombie? nusibe necropolis

i was hitting for 600 autoattack on level 45, 2 dots, in tahatamani harbour after the patch.. that's a huge damage difference, considering the level/dot difference

the new mobs are beefed up, so even though we got a tiny increase in dmg, the mobs in tahatamani are rediculous, we fought the 50 4 dots in the center temple and they were hitting our tank for 2600 at lvl 50... needless to say we wiped super fast as they were swinging every 1.5 seconds or less.

also only skeletons get a bonus from our bladestaff (even though they shouldnt since it isnt a blunt anymore, but then again the double crit white dmg doesnt work either anymore...) zombies do not get this bonus so the 2k white dmg was on the skeletons in nusibe which was normal for me, i got nearly 600 str selfbuffed (every piece of armor has str on it) and was hitting those skeles for 2200 but today fighting non skeletons my largest hit was 600-750 white dmg, nothing i could do to increase it eventhough my tooltip dmg is higher.

This is rediculous, im super close to quitting, i already dont play this toon until patch day....

[Kaori Delight]

same group, same mobs, same buffs, i'm hitting average 10-15% less damage.. this is definately not an increase, although not as big as a nerf as i said before

and i have no logs before the patch, i'm not obsessive like that (unless of course you want the one log i took at level 12?) so if you don't think it's "proof" i don't give a shit, we got nerfed plain and simple

hell, the 2 disciples in my guild already thought something was up with the damage before i even mentioned it