[Xarnthal]

Originally Posted by Kaori Delight

same group, same mobs, same buffs, i'm hitting average 10-15% less damage.. this is definately not an increase, although not as big as a nerf as i said before

and i have no logs before the patch, i'm not obsessive like that (unless of course you want the one log i took at level 12?) so if you don't think it's "proof" i don't give a shit, we got nerfed plain and simple

hell, the 2 disciples in my guild already thought something was up with the damage before i even mentioned it

lols
Yep. Avair is working hard for the Disciple class! Clearly they spent much time and thought into their newest damage increase. L.O.L.

I believe it was posted by Cylus that the dev's are supposed to post on their free time and not while at work. Just proves to me that Avair and the other class leads don't care about the game or our specific class because you never see them post.

[Desu]

Originally Posted by Hokonoso

the new mobs are beefed up, so even though we got a tiny increase in dmg, the mobs in tahatamani are rediculous, we fought the 50 4 dots in the center temple and they were hitting our tank for 2600 at lvl 50... needless to say we wiped super fast as they were swinging every 1.5 seconds or less.

also only skeletons get a bonus from our bladestaff (even though they shouldnt since it isnt a blunt anymore, but then again the double crit white dmg doesnt work either anymore...) zombies do not get this bonus so the 2k white dmg was on the skeletons in nusibe which was normal for me, i got nearly 600 str selfbuffed (every piece of armor has str on it) and was hitting those skeles for 2200 but today fighting non skeletons my largest hit was 600-750 white dmg, nothing i could do to increase it eventhough my tooltip dmg is higher.

This is rediculous, im super close to quitting, i already dont play this toon until patch day....

Okay.... so your comparing 2200 to a skele, to 600-750 to non skele. No offense to alot of the people here. If your going to say we were nerfed, do some testing. Do the same exact shit, same mob. Dont compare different mobs, different buffs and grouping and soloing and then complain about ANOTHER nerf. Now i have not been able to get on to test this, but so far i havn't seen shit in terms of good enough #'s to call a true test.

Edit:
Also, if we somehow did lose damage, then this needs to be brought up. Its not a nerf because this patch was supposed to increase our damage. A bug is not a nerf. It does hinder us, but it will get fixed, and if it never does, well then we then we know every day at sigil is opposite day.

Edit 2: Just thought i would clear up that in no way i am saying we do good enough damage. Theres many things about a disciple that need to be fixed, damage being one of them. Just whenever there is "Damage increased" or "Damage Decreased" posts on the patches, people seem to over-exagerate the situation of their damage.

[Audio]

Just ask the devs to put the disc back to the "double crits" that we had at launch. Thats what I want. Matter of fact you can take all my energy healing away if that was possible. I dont need to play second fiddle to snobby clerics. Let them have the heal title. Who cares. We have crap buffs that are weakened versions of other classes anyways.

We would be better as a group class if we were endurance based healers only. Reduce the end costs and increase the heal power from end healing. Put our bare hand damage back to what it was at launch. Bring back our counterspell and give us a spell insta-nuke. Monks will be pissed? Yeah they should be. They should be the top damage of all med armor classes period. Why would anyone roll a monk when any joker can roll a ranger and have a bow crafted and crit for ungodly amounts of damage? Oh and heal themselves too. Nice balance there. Removing evasion from the game ruined monks and discs. Finishers were converted to become crit based for ALL classes. Another change that screwed the disc.

Theres so many problems with the disc and the monk that maybe just combining the 2 classes into one would give the devs room to find a balance that would work for whatever their "vision" of balance is moving to.

This is all without even mentioning that the Disc and the Monk are almost non-existant on PVP servers. There is no balance in PVP to be seen, but that is another issue.

So in conclusion I move for combining the Disc and Monk into one class thats worth the time to level up beyond 30. A class that lets us choose the fighting styles of the monk and has the endurance healing of a disc. Energy healing is as old as the internet itself. Lets move to the "3rd generation MMO" design and not just mean bumped textures and HDR.

A lot of good ideas between the 2 classes that would make one class that is fun to play and wanted for groups and raiding.

[Earlchaos]

I have to confirm - had buffs from yesterday, was full buffed and again less damage. Fought against Xenn north to Strandan which were 2-3 Levels below my level and i make less damage than with level 38...

[Earlchaos]

Originally Posted by shermhead

haha silly kung-fu healers.. give it up and max out vit/wis and be a backup healer

Get lost

[Desu]

Originally Posted by Earlchaos

Get lost

Just ignore him. If any char maxes out vit/wis they shouldnt be a backup healer period.

[Kaori Delight]

i will confirm something, my dps NUMBER is alot higher than it ever was before.. im hitting almost 500, but it isn't translating into real numbers

[Desu]

Originally Posted by Kaori Delight

i will confirm something, my dps NUMBER is alot higher than it ever was before.. im hitting almost 500, but it isn't translating into real numbers

Lol thats funny. Sorta like how someone mentioned in another forum that their Mitigation % didnt drop much with the healer nerf patch, yet they were getting hit a shitload now. Seems to me Sigil has major coding problems.

[Dakirn]

Originally Posted by Kaori Delight

i will confirm something, my dps NUMBER is alot higher than it ever was before.. im hitting almost 500, but it isn't translating into real numbers

Is it possible that those mobs were beefed up but DPS was increased?

[Spottycat]

Originally Posted by Kaori Delight

same group, same mobs, same buffs, i'm hitting average 10-15% less damage.. this is definately not an increase, although not as big as a nerf as i said before

and i have no logs before the patch, i'm not obsessive like that (unless of course you want the one log i took at level 12?) so if you don't think it's "proof" i don't give a shit, we got nerfed plain and simple

hell, the 2 disciples in my guild already thought something was up with the damage before i even mentioned it

No, you're of course right, you don't need proof.

All I'm saying is that by calculating your numbers with variable enemy types and varying group buffs/debuffs against your targets, you're opening your quick calculations to a huge number of different modifiers which could be skewing the overall results you receive.

How is it that Hokonoso is seeing improved damage with Max STR while Kaori sees a damage reduction somehow?... It would seem to me that it's in the variables being provided by extensive buffing/debuffing provided by groups and variable mob mitigation through fighting varying enemy types. I don't know how else this could be happening...

I simply find it hard to believe that they adjust the numbers to a higher damage rate and somehow people are claiming numbers are lower than before. The only math anybody should be looking at here is Weapon Dmg + STR bonus - Fixed Enemy Mitigation = Result for Before and Result for After.

It would be really nice if Sigil could just start giving us more precise numbers in an extended version of the patch notes, which could resolve conversations like these on the forums.

[DuckOfDeath]

- Disciple - attack damage has been increased for all special attacks.
- Disciple - base attack damage has been slightly increased.
- Disciple – Ra’Jin Flare now raises the Evocation skill instead of just claiming to

I wonder if there will ever be some patch notes that combine some of what is in todays patch notes. You know something like "Disciple - Attack damage was actually increased instead of just claiming it was".

[Therian]

My impression (no hard numbers, sorry) was an increase in damage, but not enough to feel particularly excited about. Hopefully, Avair will be able to review/finish reviewing disciple soon and give us some general feel for what, if any, changes we should expect. A 5-10% damage increase isn't really exciting when your damage is so low to start out with.

[Shawnsan]

The increase in damage was not by a noticeable margin.

Auto attack was hitting 178-185 before patch .. now it hits 179-190.

--Zippity do da.

Knife hand had ZERO increase in its damage. So it wasn't an across the board damage increase for all specials.

The damage on the finishers is up by ~10%, but since that damage was already neglible its now only +10% more of neglible.

[Jeters]

Welcome Penth =)

[Laiboch]

Confirmed – My attack stat has gone up, but my damage has not changed. After parsing the damage I have done over the last several days there was almost no visible difference between pre and post *damage increase* crits on finishers were almost exactly what they were before. Auto attack was almost exactly what it was before. Over all there was maybe a 5% total increase that could be reliably noted, but even then some of my numbers from the day before the patch were better...

Now there was almost no difference in damage, but Blessed wind was reduced by 5-6 points a tick. Blessed Wind was ticking for 101 on average a ticket before the patch today it’s ticking for 95. BRH also dropped by about 5 points.

I have done my best to be positive and give Sigil the benefit of the doubt. I worked through every Disciple focus group they had during beta. Submitted hundreds of bug reports and gave tons of feedback, but this is becoming incompetence.

Just roll the class back to where it was pre patch 1. Fix duration on bonds. Make FP and WLS group effects and then go away. I am not upset with any of the players or the class lead, but the utter and gross incompetence the dev team has demonstrated when it comes to the most unique class in their game astounds me.

I would say I am sorry, but I am not. Several players have written better systems for the class both during beta and after it than anything Sigil has come up with. These people wrote those systems because they love the class concept and what it was intended to be, but those people are the same ones that were treated like trash by the Dev’s that couldn’t even come up with a better system in how many months of trying? Sigil asked for patience from the community, but doesn’t listen to them. Sigil explained that they had budget issues, and again the community listened and said ok we can work with that, but there is a limit to that patience and many are reaching it.

The system should be:
Auto attack+(autoattack*%)= Damage.

Example: Soul Cutter: This attack deals an additional 150% damage to the target and lowers your agro by X.

310+(310*150%)= 775 damage.

Its simple and it works. No extra numbers are requited because the range of actual melee hits will do this for you. If someone hits for between 179 and 190 their results will change (447-475 damage) depending on the hit. You don’t have to change this per level or add extra numbers. It simply works better than the system Sigil is using right now.

[Dakirn]

Originally Posted by Laiboch

Now there was almost no difference in damage, but Blessed wind was reduced by 5-6 points a tick. Blessed Wind was ticking for 101 on average a ticket before the patch today it’s ticking for 95. BRH also dropped by about 5 points.

Check your vitality/HF and see if you changed out a piece of equipment recently. My BW was healing for the exact same that it did before (125) and so was BRH (103).

[Earlchaos]

I have to agree with Laiboch. Totally and in every special point. When will Sigil listen?

My skills are 300str, 180 dex, 200 vit, ~150 wis/int unbuffed.

I respecced few weeks ago and put nearly any bloody point to str and vit. So i'm in fact damage-specced. I don't see an increase in damage. Maybe a bit auto attack but i loose a bit dmg in concordant finishing chain. I use the other two seldom because of their low damage altough i'm fighting with blade staff. The result is the same, solo fights take the same time than before.

[parmenion747]

5% increase to F.A. wow, be still my heart, their finger really is on the pulse. Still the worst dmg in game, worst healer buffage, worst utility, worst mitigation (bearing in mind proximity), worst CC options, least class flavour, worst de-agro options, highest micromanagement with hundreds (yes hundreds, for real, hundreds, say it again hundreds) of buffs to track and maintain per hour as well as overall OCD operating necessities. Loads of our abilities are still broken.

I really feel like all my effort to date on my disciple has been a tragic waste of time, why will they move right away to nerf the class hard but we have to be patient for months on end to get nothing done about fundamental design flaws to the class.

I was going to write something really really angry, but does anyone listen or care about DSC's at Sigil, I just don't feel they do, nevertheless, here's what I need to happen to make me consider staying with the DSC - it's still going to come out as angry but hey no1 will read it so what does it matter.


/rant on

White Lotus and Falling Petal changed to group buffs, right now, not next month, or the one after, or with the next expansion, or after all the disciples have given up and rerolled, now, this week.
All bonds changed to 60minute not 60second duration, no focus groups, or meetings or vacilating or putting it off for another year - just ****ing do it, point blank do something about it, maintaining hundreds of buffs per hour isn't fun, it's never going to be fun, no excuses, fix it, now.
Feign Death extra ranks with 45sec and 30sec reuse upgrades (corpse camping dealt with soon too).
Remove global cooldown trigger from Lao'JIN flare.

Mid term - carry on fixing the broken stuff, a workable CC system for grouping (feint requirements taken out behind the barn and shot) mez sweep and touch useful/functional, ra'jin made more useful than a shuriken throw (snare!), astral gale returning meaningful endurance to a group, cyclone kick with dmg equivalent to it's JIN cost (monk finishers), endurance and sage bonds with proper buff status no negatives, KoT changed to something useful, sunfist made useful without agro, endowment of balance changed to something useful.

Longer term - screw around with the 5% to DPS stuff, have a proper evaluation of where our DPS should be bearing in mind our limitations in other areas compared to other healers. Examine our buffs lack of desirability, examine our lack of utility spells, examine the constraints of enforced close proximity melee, examine our CC, examine how many things we can realistically do in each 60seconds, rather than theoretical paper balancing that never seems to take global cooldown or JIN generation properly into account - address those issues or give us DPS to compensate. More endowments added. Look at a few tweaks to healing to add flavour and address agro issues (I suggested concordant palm and EoL changed to dmg absorber runes for example). Look at the problem of starting alot of fights with half our abilities unavailable, maybe JIN should regen out of combat not decay. Look at stances.

/rant off


We've been screwed for a long time, we've been patient for a long time, it's gone on long enough, time for real changes, not more here's 5% of F.A. go away till next month whle we fix ranger pets (sorry rangers, nothing personal but I mean really).

[parki]

vit/dex/wis specced here. I haven't noticed a change.

My DPS rating went up, yes, but my damage has stayed about the same maybe less, maybe more, I can't tell for sure :\

I'm starting to get clueless on what to respec to see actual changes... STR seems pointless, DEX seems pointless, CON seems pointles atm, INT is pointless, only VIT and WIS remains for when you overfight things. *sad*

[Earlchaos]

I substitute parmenion!


Con is the most useless skill - 1 HP per point is just a bloody joke and most mobs debuff their damage type to zero

Dex is the second most useless skill of all after they've changed the way we get evade+crit out of it. Mate had about 120 dex more - and 3% crit and 3%evasion or so. 120 str brings lot more - even 120 vit or wis. - well, dex helps a bit with accuracy but have a ranger in group is helping 10times better.

Wisdom is a bit useful but if you try to energy heal with disciple you've to put all your points to wis/vit and you can't solo anymore without being bored to death. That's why i respecced once to str/vit

i see some advantage from vitality, str is ok for doing some kind of damage after crit chance and endu costs were nerfed to zero.

Without my guildmates i would've rerolled another char 2 weeks after release - maybe i woud've quit that piece of crap software...

cheers