[Felucca]

People complain about the pet but the fact is 95% of the time I fight a Sorc or see a sorc on someone, they kill the person in 1-3 shots. Necro has NO burst damage with the exception of the pet. It's totally irresponsible to nerf a pet class with no burst damage except for the pet and let sorcerers run around doing the same thing the pet does. However this is Sigil so I'm sure we can expect continued errors, the pet will do like 100 damage since the coders are deplorable and Sorc/Druid will continue to run around canning everyone they see in record time. Fights in this game are defined by burst damage, period.

The class Sigil has quoted they want to be a "massive damage dealer" will soon have NOTHING like what the other arcane casters have.

[Smedy]

Originally Posted by Felucca

People complain about the pet but the fact is 95% of the time I fight a Sorc or see a sorc on someone, they kill the person in 1-3 shots. Necro has NO burst damage with the exception of the pet. It's totally irresponsible to nerf a pet class with no burst damage except for the pet and let sorcerers run around doing the same thing the pet does. However this is Sigil so I'm sure we can expect continued errors, the pet will do like 100 damage since the coders are deplorable and Sorc/Druid will continue to run around canning everyone they see in record time. Fights in this game are defined by burst damage, period.

The class Sigil has quoted they want to be a "massive damage dealer" will soon have NOTHING like what the other arcane casters have.

As much as i would agree the necro pet still was way more imbalanced then the sorcs nukes has ever been, sure its irritating when a sorc lvl 50 can AE a whole group of lvl 50 in 2 shots, yea... but i hope with gear and resistance at high end it will change, but who knows.

Necros were just beyond imbalanced with their pet hitting for 4,5k, it wasnt even fun. The thing necros need is better survivability, their lifetaps sucks, so they cant stay alive long enough for their dots/pets to deal enough damage.

They have tons of stuff to fix, im sure sooner or later it will get there.

[Brok_The_Fanatic]

The necro pet with the bugged necro invis was just outrageous. A necro could hide and just let their pet roam and slaughter. At least recently you could target the pet. Before it was just hopeless. The pets still cause alot of lag but not as much as before. Some necros still use some kind of exploit as well. And like the above poster said, a level 50 necro pet would hit you for 3000+.

This was a needed fix.

Sorcs might be up next, there is still alot of balancing to do.

[Necaris]

Originally Posted by Brok_The_Fanatic

The necro pet with the bugged necro invis was just outrageous. A necro could hide and just let their pet roam and slaughter. At least recently you could target the pet. Before it was just hopeless. The pets still cause alot of lag but not as much as before. Some necros still use some kind of exploit as well. And like the above poster said, a level 50 necro pet would hit you for 3000+.

This was a needed fix.

Sorcs might be up next, there is still alot of balancing to do.

Yeah bugged invis... Use cinvis and there you go. If you dont have cinvis and a invis sorc comes along.. you ar dead too. Actually i can do the same without invis. I run in send pet and run off. Same effect.

I never noticed any pet lag, so did my friends but i belive you if you have that problem. However, thats a coding problem and not the necros fault and for sure no exploit where you use certain spells in the right order to bring up a special exploit or somthing. I would like to know what exploit you ar talking about if it isent the pet lag.

I agree with the OP that sorc and druids can do the same a necro could do just without a pet. A lvl 50 sorc i dealing 3k dmg in how many seconds ? Maybe at some point resists come into play but it will prolly end up like in the past. First every casters rocks, after that no spells land anymore due to resists, then they add low restist spells like lure to compensate and we start again.

Overall i can accept a dmg nerf but alot of other classes need ballancing as well. And not just a lame general reduce like all caster dmg by xx%. Do it for each class as it is needed.

[Zastapth]

I love the way that people reinforce their moans by bringing other classes into it.

Necromancers are not burst dps classes, you knew that when you rolled one. If your pet is hitting for more than almost any other classes main dd spell then it's gonna get changed.

Call for more counter measures if you feel aggrieved, or the ability to last longer but comparing your burst damage to a sorcerer whilst moaning about your pet 'nerf' surely aint right?

Are you not supposed to be a DOT based class with unrivalled pve lastability? Cake and eat it?

[Gecon]

I think the ideal would be to have all classes operate well in both PvP and PvE.

[Thisle1234]

Originally Posted by Necaris

Yeah bugged invis... Use cinvis and there you go. If you dont have cinvis and a invis sorc comes along.. you ar dead too. Actually i can do the same without invis. I run in send pet and run off. Same effect.

I never noticed any pet lag, so did my friends but i belive you if you have that problem. However, thats a coding problem and not the necros fault and for sure no exploit where you use certain spells in the right order to bring up a special exploit or somthing. I would like to know what exploit you ar talking about if it isent the pet lag.

I agree with the OP that sorc and druids can do the same a necro could do just without a pet. A lvl 50 sorc i dealing 3k dmg in how many seconds ? Maybe at some point resists come into play but it will prolly end up like in the past. First every casters rocks, after that no spells land anymore due to resists, then they add low restist spells like lure to compensate and we start again.

Overall i can accept a dmg nerf but alot of other classes need ballancing as well. And not just a lame general reduce like all caster dmg by xx%. Do it for each class as it is needed.

Clearly you have no idea what your talking about. Necromancer invis is different from Sorcerer invis. For one, its buged. Necromancer's are not susposed to have invis. Invis to undead...yes. Invis to everyone...no. Even with see invis you cannot see a necro in invis to undead. Thats the bug.

[GruntyThrst]

Also, Sorcs are MADE to kill large groups quickly. But if you survive, they're dead because their OOM. All other damage in the game, other than pet damage, is scaled for PvP.

Naturally, the pet damage must also be scaled for fairness.

[Kaltor]

Originally Posted by Thisle1234

Clearly you have no idea what your talking about. Even with see invis you cannot see a necro in invis to undead. Thats the bug.

I see invis necros all the time with my see invis, from druid forage items. so your statement is incorrect.

[Zastapth]

I can see cleric and necro's absolutely fine that are invisible using my basic see invisibility spell. The problem being that every other class bar the psionicist (with true sight) is losing out to this bug in an unfair way.

[Demonix]

Sorcs are subpar until high level. With the 50% damage nerf, they are unable to kill healers until they have all of their high damage spells, sleep, etc.

A typical huge burst dmg 1v1 sorc gank:

-Find somebody while invis
-Sleep them
-Acuity + Fire Spear + Finisher
-CV + mimic when possible
-Dead enemy

However, CV is a TERRIBLE PVP skill. Since it hurts the sorc, especially if the feedback crits (epic or legendary = dead sorc), CV actually helps any enemy that can outheal it or live through a few hits long enough to smack the sorc a couple times, which is any healer up until high levels, DRKs, and paladins. It's not until high level that the sorc gets a long recast skill to avoid CV feedback damage. Also, with the 50% dmg reduction but no healing reduction, healers have no problem outhealing CV at lower levels while the sorc makes himself low on health and OOM. Sorcs also die to classes that can root since they are unable to attack them. This adds druids and rangers to that list, and makes clerics even more impossible. The sorc also needs the first hit, which is easy enough against a melee class since even if they get jumped, they can reset the fight with Color Spray and Sleep. However, if a sorc is ever jumped by a class that can root, it's game over. Yes, most sorcs will live much of their lives invis, but that just means people need to make friends with other sorcs and psions for See Invis, and right away much of the sorc's power is taken away. Bard invis however refreshes every 6 seconds, and even with See Invis will reset a sorc's target and have a short delay while the bard is invis. Most often, a bard will mez and then invis + speed away. Psions can also avoid fights with sorcs because of their mez. What does this leave us with? Sorcs can kill necros, rogues, monks, and warriors consistently. But wait, even rogues can get away now because of ranged stun/mez/etc. Obviously 3/15 classes requires a nerf right? Also, don't forget that a necro's DoTs will continue to tick away on a sorc after death and usually both players will die since the sorc has no way to heal through the DoT dmg, especially if the necro got off a cast of Sealed Fate. While the classes that mez mostly rely on running away from the sorc to live to tell about it rather than being able to kill the sorc, it's still removing those classes from the list of easy kills for sorcs.

So, yes, sorcs can do crazy burst dmg. However, just because YOUR class dies to it, doesn't mean that there aren't virtual impossibilities with other classes. The craziness of the sorc lies in high-level AoE PVP, as others have mentioned that a 50 sorc can take out a full group with ease. This also relies on the sorc sneaking up on the group and getting the first hit. After all, sorcs were the main reason the 50% dmg reduction in PVP was implemented...the devs feared what sorcs would be able to do with Meteor at 50.

Also, most druids rely on Starfall in PVP. Don't forget that this is a calamity and costs phenomenon points. It SHOULD be overpowered...which I guess, means it isn't really overpowered. Yes, a druid can pop 1-2 Starfalls against a group, but that druid has to resort to kiting the rest of a group or running away and that no longer falls into your crazy burst dmg scenario. Druids are also susceptible to the same rules as the sorc, except they don't have invis and without phenom points for Starfall take much longer to kill in PVP when compared to a sorc. If the druid does go all out, he will be OOM long before a sorc since they have very low mana efficiency as the Arcane Caster forums have been flooded recently with angry druids over the Taproot change. And no, I'm not saying a druid would use Taproot in PVP, I'm just pointing out the reason Taproot was needed at all, which is druid's low efficiency and low mana pool, which is accentuated by the 50% dmg reduction. Don't even get me started on cleric vs. druid, which is a joke. The druid will be OOM while the cleric has 90% HP/mana.

Necro pets were bugged. Necro pets are STILL bugged. All aspects of PVP should share the same 50% dmg reduction, which means no more necro pets dealing 3k+ instant dmg while the necro hides. Two lvl 30 necros on Varking were ganking lvl 50s over...and over...again because of the dmg bug on grafts being mixed with the slowdown problems that still occur when being attacked by a necro pet that made the 50s unable to move, much less track down the necros to take them down. Not to mention, necros could do this with no mana usage, while twiddling their thumbs and eating a twinkie after hitting Pet Attack.

[Echonaz]

Originally Posted by GruntyThrst

Also, Sorcs are MADE to kill large groups quickly. But if you survive, they're dead because their OOM. All other damage in the game, other than pet damage, is scaled for PvP.

Naturally, the pet damage must also be scaled for fairness.

lol

This sounds like the crap sorcs used to say in DAoC, when they were given just about everything good in the game other than the ability to tank like a warrior.

Sorry, if anything is balanced around the ability of one class to kill a GROUP of people, I'll jump ship.

Had enough of that s--t from DAoC.

In 1v1 I have yet to even be able to target a sorc before s/he killed me. Thats stark raving dumb tyvm. This is, of course, due to the fact that this game isnt built around, or balanaced around PvP. You sorcs need to come up with something better than "we are supposed to be able to nuke down groups", or your nerf will be game ending.

[Demonix]

Originally Posted by Echonaz

lol

This sounds like the crap sorcs used to say in DAoC, when they were given just about everything good in the game other than the ability to tank like a warrior.

Sorry, if anything is balanced around the ability of one class to kill a GROUP of people, I'll jump ship.

Had enough of that s--t from DAoC.

In 1v1 I have yet to even be able to target a sorc before s/he killed me. Thats stark raving dumb tyvm. This is, of course, due to the fact that this game isnt built around, or balanaced around PvP. You sorcs need to come up with something better than "we are supposed to be able to nuke down groups", or your nerf will be game ending.

Hmm, funny how in the other thread ranking people in PVP sorcs aren't even that high on the list. (EDIT: Okay okay, they're third, but still.) Perhaps that's because it's from people that have actually fought most of the classes at high lvls and realized that sorcs aren't as overpowered as you whiners would like to believe. Sorcs can die. There's other classes that can 2-shot you that won't die so easily. The only advantage sorcs have over those is that they can AoE. Their AoEs have already been nerfed a ton...you used to be able to spam their PBAoE 5 times or so AND it did more dmg (or maybe that was just before the 50% nerf, I don't remember), which was more than enough to kill a group by itself, especially if it crit and let them use Mimic for a free, more powerful AoE.

Here's a simple solution to group-based PVP against a group with a sorc in it (and I don't mean a sorc ganking you...they currently have the upper hand when it comes to taking out a group that's busy fighting mobs, except when they kill you, all of your mobs will aggro on them from when their AoEs hit them too, or sometimes even earlier and he'll die before you do if you haven't damaged your adds yet)...you sure you're ready for this? DON'T STAND IN A GROUP. Wow. You just made them use an incredibly mana-inefficient spell on one person. Learn the other classes weaknesses. A full group attacking a sorc will make mincemeat out of them as long as you don't let them AoE you. Even if it was a group full of warriors shooting bows from range, they would take down the sorc before he could finish off the entire group one at a time.

[Echonaz]

Originally Posted by Demonix

Hmm, funny how in the other thread ranking people in PVP sorcs aren't even that high on the list. (EDIT: Okay okay, they're third, but still.) Perhaps that's because it's from people that have actually fought most of the classes at high lvls and realized that sorcs aren't as overpowered as you whiners would like to believe. Sorcs can die. There's other classes that can 2-shot you that won't die so easily. The only advantage sorcs have over those is that they can AoE. Their AoEs have already been nerfed a ton...you used to be able to spam their PBAoE 5 times or so AND it did more dmg (or maybe that was just before the 50% nerf, I don't remember), which was more than enough to kill a group by itself, especially if it crit and let them use Mimic for a free, more powerful AoE.

Here's a simple solution to group-based PVP against a group with a sorc in it (and I don't mean a sorc ganking you...they currently have the upper hand when it comes to taking out a group that's busy fighting mobs, except when they kill you, all of your mobs will aggro on them from when their AoEs hit them too, or sometimes even earlier and he'll die before you do if you haven't damaged your adds yet)...you sure you're ready for this? DON'T STAND IN A GROUP. Wow. You just made them use an incredibly mana-inefficient spell on one person. Learn the other classes weaknesses. A full group attacking a sorc will make mincemeat out of them as long as you don't let them AoE you. Even if it was a group full of warriors shooting bows from range, they would take down the sorc before he could finish off the entire group one at a time.

Flapping our wings a bit are we. Slow your roll kid.

If you read my post you will see I want changes that benefit pvp in general, not sorc nerfs specifically.

Thank you for getting all ruffled in public. Clearly you realize the imbalance, and will fervently defend your right to being overpowered. Thanks too for the lesson in PvP, 5 years of ganking in DAoC couldnt teach me what you did with one rant.

rofl

[Demonix]

Originally Posted by Echonaz

Flapping our wings a bit are we. Slow your roll kid.

If you read my post you will see I want changes that benefit pvp in general, not sorc nerfs specifically.

Thank you for getting all ruffled in public. Clearly you realize the imbalance, and will fervently defend your right to being overpowered. Thanks too for the lesson in PvP, 5 years of ganking in DAoC couldnt teach me what you did with one rant.

rofl

Duly noted on the fact that it was about PVP in general not being based around one class being able to AoE a group, but that is indirectly calling for a nerf to AoEs which basically means sorcs in this game. And, I'm barely playing my sorc anymore and am just too lazy to change my sig. My point was that group PVP is fairly balanced assuming a group getting attacked by a sorc is smart enough to disperse.

[Aristotle]

Sorcs can one shot tanks - well its Meteor Shower plus some other instant dd that hits simultaneously, I have witnessed this first hand. Other casters are almost as good at the burst damage but its just nuts that any can do so.


We know at inception that the game would be frought with imbalances but I do not think that anyone knew it would be this crazy.

On the pvp servers people will hit 50 and then realise that holy fook, we rolled the wrong classes - except for a few lucky enough to roll the overpowered ones.

It's like a counterstrike match where, tanks are given knives with good armor against casters with autoshotguns - not only that but sorcs get to sneak up invis with their shotguns AND mez, chain mez and snare you , but they seldom need to use the other forms of cc because they kill their targets without them.


Sigil, please look into balancing before this game goes the way of many failed pvp games and all roll the range damage class with invis etc., while the rest simply leave.(I am sure what I have said has been said before however this is the first time on this forum and I thought I would throw in my 2cents worth).

[Demonix]

Originally Posted by Aristotle

Sorcs can one shot tanks - well its Meteor Shower plus some other instant dd that hits simultaneously, I have witnessed this first hand. Other casters are almost as good at the burst damage but its just nuts that any can do so.


We know at inception that the game would be frought with imbalances but I do not think that anyone knew it would be this crazy.

On the pvp servers people will hit 50 and then realise that holy fook, we rolled the wrong classes - except for a few lucky enough to roll the overpowered ones.

It's like a counterstrike match where, tanks are given knives with good armor against casters with autoshotguns - not only that but sorcs get to sneak up invis with their shotguns AND mez, chain mez and snare you , but they seldom need to use the other forms of cc because they kill their targets without them.


Sigil, please look into balancing before this game goes the way of many failed pvp games and all roll the range damage class with invis etc., while the rest simply leave.(I am sure what I have said has been said before however this is the first time on this forum and I thought I would throw in my 2cents worth).

Good thing most sorcs suck. I had one attack my DRK as he was buying somethin to send to another alt tonight (he was 16, I was 11) and he was so used to ganking people with flame spear + char (no incinerate yet) that he didn't know what to do when I turned around and ported behind him. He never snared me as I ran circles around him and finally just gave up trying to hit him with the lvl difference and used WoD and it crit him for 70% of his health and killed him Sorcs get so spoiled with 1-shots that they don't know what to do if you don't die

[Zastapth]

Originally Posted by Aristotle

Sorcs can one shot tanks - well its Meteor Shower plus some other instant dd that hits simultaneously, I have witnessed this first hand. Other casters are almost as good at the burst damage but its just nuts that any can do so.


We know at inception that the game would be frought with imbalances but I do not think that anyone knew it would be this crazy.

On the pvp servers people will hit 50 and then realise that holy fook, we rolled the wrong classes - except for a few lucky enough to roll the overpowered ones.

Paid for by being piss weak, with no healing, no pets, a self damaging spell as the only real pvp choice and a flawed counterspelling system all on the way to 50 to make up for it.

I can't wait for 50 if this is the case because right now sorcerers suck balls. Tha imbalances are with druids, necros and bloodmages in pvp right now, my pay back time will soon be coming then by what you seem to say above?

[Womgoose]

Sorcerers do more damage than you and it's unfair?

Do Sorcerers have pets that can tank 6 dot mobs?
Can Sorcerers farm Drillzillax for legendary focus items solo?
Can Sorcerers DOT and run away while a pet hits the other player for you?
Can Sorcerers heal with drains?
Can Sorcerers regenerate mana indefinately?
Can Sorcerers sens ANY mob running for it's life with fear?

The simple answer is no to all the above. They are basically Rogues in cloth. They cannot mez pets like Psi's, they do not have personal tanks and infinite fear like Necro's. It's called balance. If you don't like it roll a sorcerer and see how you enjoy trying to kill a 4+ dot then.

If you want more dmg, you have to sacrifice your pet, fear and heals. Sound fair now?

The simple fact of the matter is every class has strengths and weaknesses.
Personally I believe Necro's are the most spolit and unbalanced class in the game so it angers me to hear them complain.
I have a lowly level 22 Necro and it is just stupidly overpowered already. I can chain pull mobs and keep 3 on the go at all times.
My pet off-tanks while I keep two fear/Dotted. No other class in the game can pull off anything close to this speed of grinding.
If I come across a low level mob/boss that would otherwise require 3+ players, I just use my pet to tank, keep him healed and slowly DOT the mob to death. If the pet takes too much damage a simple fear send the boss running around like a headless chicken while my DOT's rip him to pieces.

I cannot comment on Druids but in terms of PvP I now for a fact that Sorcerers are not the class that I fear the most. Heck a Rogue can take anybody out before you even know you are in combat. 100% crit + double attacks and weapons procs and dots = almost insta-death. In the 2 seconds you have to live, you won't be able to move. You might... MIGHT just get enough time to type "/g ROGUE!!wwwwwwwwwwssssssssss" in group chat.
A ranger is a caster killer with a ridiculous silence spell and a Psio/Necro can set a pet on you, DOT you and run away giving you ooh... 6 seconds to live?

PvP is unbalanced for Warriors and Disciples. I don't believe anybody else has the right to complain (Perhaps Cleric but an increase in DPS would make them gods again).

[Gecon]

Originally Posted by Womgoose

The simple fact of the matter is every class has strengths and weaknesses.

Thats right. But no class should be able to oneshot another class of the same level. Even a nuker should require, say, 10 spells to kill any other class. So the other class has actually a chance to fight back, even if the nuker still is the king of PvP.