[Dulen]

From Test Build 1824

-Item Power Rescale - Items have undergone some power rescaling. This was to address problems related to item usefulness -- these adjustments will make all higher-level items (post level 20) in Vanguard more viable for use.

When comparing the “goodness” of items of different rarity the disparity between the rarity levels became much too large at higher levels. This problem had many far-reaching repercussions. As a resolution, we have increased the amount of points (“goodness”) on common, uncommon and rare items significantly. This power increase scales up from level 20 where there is no change to level 50 where there is the largest change. Commons will get the largest increase, followed by uncommons and then rares. Heroics will not receive an increase. Also, in order to support our new item scale high-level legendary items have had a very small reduction in power.

So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

[Shihan]

Originally Posted by Dulen

From Test Build 1824


So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

Actually, heroics aren't changing.

Only the legendaries are receiving a small decrease in power to stay on scale.

Can you honestly say you don't expect changes like these in the first 6 months of any MMO? Naive much?

[Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Dulen

From Test Build 1824


So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

I don't even know what to say.

Originally Posted by Shihan

Actually, heroics aren't changing.

Only the legendaries are receiving a small decrease in power to stay on scale.

Can you honestly say you don't expect changes like these in the first 6 months of any MMO? Naive much?

If your going to insult the guy at least comprehend what his opinion is, he never said heroics were being changed. Many people camped quested heroics/legendaries due to them..well being Heroic and Legendary stats. Now Yellows will be closer, possibly negating the need for many of them.

[Vauhs]

bleh~

[Eleyn]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

I don't even know what to say.

That legendary items are currently grossly overpowered?

This would be fine, if the "Legendary" tag was something reserved for the boss of the game, or at least some insanely powerful raid boss .. but it's not, most people I know have 1, 2, even 3 Legendary items - most of these are weapons (a melee character's weapon being, by far, the most important piece of gear they will ever own), putting Weaponsmiths completely out of business, for one, and being just generally not all that difficult to obtain for two. CIS weapons? Pantheon weapons? They aren't hard to obtain. Certainly not hard enough to warrant an item you get in your late 20s to early 30s to be a viable comparison versus a level 50 heroic drop, which they currently are.

Common & Uncommon have absolutely no real place in the current game post-level 30, and even Rare starts to look lackluster if you happen to have a heroic/legendary piece from 30 levels ago.. you think that's right? Without this change, they might as well just make Rare the new common, Heroic the new uncommon, and Legendary the new rare, because that is how the current game looks with regards to 'rarity'.

[Shihan]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

I don't even know what to say.



If your going to insult the guy at least comprehend what his opinion is, he never said heroics were being changed. Many people camped quested heroics/legendaries due to them..well being Heroic and Legendary stats. Now Yellows will be closer, possibly negating the need for many of them.

Well, maybe in your eyes. When I camp something that is heroic/legendary, I do it because they are better than the rest. The margin of how much better is relative, of course. So they lessened the gap a bit, balancing ( read: shit ) happens. Heroics are still better than rares. I guess the only people who will really feel slighted are the ones who like to stroke their e-peens over heroic gear versus everyone elses' pathetic rare gear.

I have quite a few pieces of heroic/legendary. I guess I also don't live my life for the game and I can see them tweaking major aspects of the game for the next few months so it's not that big of a deal to me.

To each his own.

[Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Eleyn

That legendary items are currently grossly overpowered?

This would be fine, if the "Legendary" tag was something reserved for the boss of the game, or at least some insanely powerful raid boss .. but it's not, most people I know have 1, 2, even 3 Legendary items - most of these are weapons (a melee character's weapon being, by far, the most important piece of gear they will ever own), putting Weaponsmiths completely out of business, for one, and being just generally not all that difficult to obtain for two. CIS weapons? Pantheon weapons? They aren't hard to obtain. Certainly not hard enough to warrant an item you get in your late 20s to early 30s to be a viable comparison versus a level 50 heroic drop, which they currently are.

Common & Uncommon have absolutely no real place in the game post-level 30, and even Rare starts to look lackluster if you happen to have a heroic/legendary piece from 30 levels ago.. you think that's right?

Oh, crafters...

Psst..there is another tier of items for Raid bosses.

Common and Uncommon fill places untill you can quest/adventure/buy an item to replace it.

If you think the infinium/pantheon items are comparable to level 50+ heroics you've got a lot more to see in VG, lots of neat drops and quest items. The only thing you'd use them for are the effects(healers or the new H2H weapon) to help keep a tank up.

Originally Posted by Shihan

Well, maybe in your eyes. When I camp something that is heroic/legendary, I do it because they are better than the rest. The margin of how much better is relative, of course. So they lessened the gap a bit, balancing ( read: shit ) happens. Heroics are still better than rares. I guess the only people who will really feel slighted are the ones who like to stroke their e-peens over heroic gear versus everyone elses' pathetic rare gear.

I have quite a few pieces of heroic/legendary. I guess I also don't live my life for the game and I can see them tweaking major aspects of the game for the next few months so it's not that big of a deal to me.

To each his own.

Are you able to post without an insult if someone disagrees with you?

[Shihan]

Originally Posted by Eleyn

That legendary items are currently grossly overpowered?

This would be fine, if the "Legendary" tag was something reserved for the boss of the game, or at least some insanely powerful raid boss .. but it's not, most people I know have 1, 2, even 3 Legendary items - most of these are weapons (a melee character's weapon being, by far, the most important piece of gear they will ever own), putting Weaponsmiths completely out of business, for one, and being just generally not all that difficult to obtain for two. CIS weapons? Pantheon weapons? They aren't hard to obtain. Certainly not hard enough to warrant an item you get in your late 20s to early 30s to be a viable comparison versus a level 50 heroic drop, which they currently are.

Common & Uncommon have absolutely no real place in the current game post-level 30, and even Rare starts to look lackluster if you happen to have a heroic/legendary piece from 30 levels ago.. you think that's right? Without this change, they might as well just make Rare the new common, Heroic the new uncommon, and Legendary the new rare, because that is how the current game looks with regards to 'rarity'.

Ah yes, logic!! Well said.

[grape]

Time to address more meaningless item nerfs, and not really address the core issues that keep the core gaming crowd away.

LOL,

[Vauhs]

Originally Posted by grape

Time to address more meaningless item nerfs, and not really address the core issues that keep the core gaming crowd away.

LOL,

agree

[Ganter]

Originally Posted by grape

Time to address more meaningless item nerfs, and not really address the core issues that keep the core gaming crowd away.

LOL,

Do you like this game?

[Eleyn]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

Common and Uncommon fill places untill you can quest/adventure/buy an item to replace it.

They did. Until about level 30, like I said - by then, most players have managed to find a yellow drop that suits them for most slots, at which point, under the current system (which they are changing because of this very problem!), a green or blue drop will never be an upgrade for them again. A yellow level 25 drop is superior to a green level 50 drop, so anyone with a yellow piece of armor of any tier in a given slot will never have use for a green or blue again. Why even have greens or blues in the game? For me to decon? If so, okay..

Originally Posted by Bulldog

If you think the infinium/pantheon items are comparable to level 50+ heroics you've got a lot more to see in VG, lots of neat drops and quest items. The only thing you'd use them for are the effects(healers or the new H2H weapon) to help keep a tank up.

Please note I did say Heroic, not Legendary. Legendaries do, yes, have neat effects that do all sorts of things, but heroics are pretty straightforward from what I've seen. Rare, of course, doesn't even begin to compare.. show me a yellow drop from a level 50+ 6 dot named that compares with, I dunno, the CIS weapons? That you can get at level 25ish? I don't think you can. That's horribly broken.

Go look at curse-gaming.. The lowest level weapon available which beats, let's say, Insirion, is that level 53 maul from Rhaz. Huh? Yeah, you need 20 levels on a legendary item to even begin to compare. That's a heroic. No rare weapon in the game beats a legendary weapon of any level, even the lowbie CIS weapons, ever, period.

[Renfail]

Originally Posted by Shihan

Heroics are still better than rares. I guess the only people who will really feel slighted are the ones who like to stroke their e-peens over heroic gear versus everyone elses' pathetic rare gear.

So true!

We were discussing this in Ventrilo yesterday morning...how the disparity between levels of goodness = a bad thing for the game overall, and we were suggesting ways they could make it better, and then we see the patch notes, and it was glorious

Heroic gear is still going to be better, and legendary will still be better than that. But stuff is DEFINETELY overpowered, and I'm glad to see things changing.

Let's face it. Legendaries are supposed to be just that. LEGENDARY! Yet EVERY character I see past level 35 has 2-3 Legendary items. What's so legendary when EVERYONE has them? So, fine...legendaries just mean that you had to spend a little more time to get than heroics, and heroics take just a little more time than rares....and for that little bit of extra time and effort you get some better stats....but not OVERLYPOWERING better, as they have been in the past. Now, things are moving closer to balanced and I, for one, am insanely happy to see this change moving forward.

Personally, I don't want to see raid drops even come close to being better than what you get from single-man dungeons. I would love to see raids dropping patterns, components, maybe the base armor pieces, but all combinable things that you will then funnel through your diplomats and crafters to obtain your final piece....which will be something uber enough to blow everything else out of the water. But regardless, the change in disparity levels was NEEDED to bring things closer to balance. People can still stroke their e-peen that they have their precious heroic/legendary items...they just won't be so overpoweringly more powerful than someone else's rare. And that is a good thing.

[Eleyn]

Originally Posted by Renfail

So true!

We were discussing this in Ventrilo yesterday morning...how the disparity between levels of goodness = a bad thing for the game overall, and we were suggesting ways they could make it better, and then we see the patch notes, and it was glorious

Aye, my guild had the same discussion a month or so ago.. looking at the Legendary items out there, and the progression of "itemization points" per level and rarity tier, we saw that there was a huge multiplier attached to an item's tier, and a relatively small scale attached to an item's level. It was pretty obvious that it really didn't matter what level gear you had (within reason) as long as it was the correct tier - so a level 35 heroic was always going to beat a level 50 rare.

We knew it would be changed, I mean, it had to be. What were raid items going to look like? A raid-equipped warrior doing as much damage on autoattack with his raid weapon as a 6-man group of rogues with heroics?

[Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Eleyn

show me a yellow drop from a level 50+ 6 dot named that compares with, I dunno, the CIS weapons? That you can get at level 25ish? I don't think you can. That's horribly broken.

.

Hold on, let me medicate my injured E-peen(i know you didn't say that, but I thought it was funny. Tells me a lot about the people in this thread).

Off the top of my head answering your question specifically. The Yellow 1 handed swords from Majordomo and the Divided dude were both Much superior to the infinium 1 handed sword...though they are both now heroics and the gap is even bigger.

Let me think...Well there are many items better than the infinium gear that are only rares at 50. I just did a search by level 50-50, Rare. Every item on there beats an infinium weapon(cept staves..but that's a different story and discussion)

I understand what you mean though. I guess it would depend. I think a legendary at say 40, should be better than any level 50 rare.

And actually, I did upgrade 37 heroic legs to 53 rare legs.

[Eleyn]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

I understand what you mean though. I guess it would depend. I think a legendary at say 40, should be better than any level 50 rare.

Aye, I mean Vanguard doesn't have many levels - only 50. 10 more levels is alot in this game, and 20 is almost half of the entire leveling spectrum! To be able to pick up something near the very beginning of your career (mid 20s), that will last you to the end-game just "feels" wrong to me.

[akuthia]

hey, this oughta give crafted gear no one buys a boost too

[Shihan]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

Are you able to post without an insult if someone disagrees with you?

Of course I am. Though, if the post contains "My e-peen is hurting now because my uber gear is now not quite as good as everyone elses." then I sometimes feel the need to post that balance is good for a game.

Sure, I'll admit that I sometimes lack tact. That's why I don't work in a PR role. You surely get the point I'm conveying though.

This change NEEDED to happen. To those who didn't see the HUGE disparity in gear tiers prior to this change were simply naive. BTW, as someone earlier pointed out, it would be one thing if the heroics / legendaries were actually hard to get. They are a joke to get. Some of them require a lot of faction work, sure That only covers a few slots. I know personally that a LOT of the best gear is dropped or rewarded from quests that can be done in less than a day. How does that make it heroic or legendary? They're doing a good thing here bringing the tiers closer together.

[Renfail]

Originally Posted by Eleyn

We knew it would be changed, I mean, it had to be. What were raid items going to look like? A raid-equipped warrior doing as much damage on autoattack with his raid weapon as a 6-man group of rogues with heroics?

That was a point I was trying to make to people in the Rahz thread over in Defensive fighter forums yesterday. If they would have kept it at its current progression, raid drops would have been FORCED into being SO much better than the overpowered heroics that they literally would have turned people into god-like avatars, and that's BAD for the game. When your raid gear trivializes the normal game content, ESPECIALLY in a game where the PRIMARY content of the game is single-group content, that is a BAD thing! God-like raid weapons lead down a road that NO smart gamer wants to see again.

[sweetdigs]

Originally Posted by Dulen

From Test Build 1824


So basically what this change does is make our hard earned, long quested, insane time sink heroics and legendarys less worth the effort...

Yup, this game is getting better and better every day.

I personally think it's a good move. Although I think that legendary and heroic gear is FAR too common in the game. They need about 3 more tiers of gear above legendary and need to make those as rare as legendary and heroic SHOULD HAVE BEEN.