[Shade Maelstorm]

I am grateful that Sigil did see the light in making crafted items which are colored BOE, but it wont work unless adventurer drop gear which is colored is also BOE.

Atm, demand for crafted gear is dropping because crafted gear is BOE and cannot be resold once worn. However adventurer dropped loot (referred to for sanity sake as "dungeon loot") can be resold and so dungeon loot is the logical gear type to be bought.

This is a point I was trying to make before when I posted all colored gear needs to be BOE.

This is what wow does and its easily understood why.

Until adventurer colored gear ("dungeon loot") is BOE, crafters gear will continue to drop in terms of demand, (hey the gear on both sides is comparable except one is BOE and one isnt), until dungeon loot which is colored is BOE.

If we want the Vanguard MMO economy to continue, and whilst Sigil are fixing the dupes and removing plat from the economy, as one of the Sigil devs has stated its their top priority, then Sigil would do well for all colored gear, where it is crafted or dungeon loot, to make these items BOE, all of them (if they are colored, ie not white)!

If there was any disparity between the player perceived value of crafted gear and dungeon loot before crafted items were made BOE, then the best way to have fixed that is to simply extend the time required to make the item, not to make one side BOE and screw the other side over.

Please make dungeon loot, ie adventurer loot, if its colored, BOE. Vanguard crafters forum has a post on crafted gear BOE and its debilitating effects on the Vanguard crafter community (when dungeon loot is not BOE).

BOE on one side only wont work, and if, when both sides gear is compared, crafters gear comes out better, then for goodness sake, increase the time required to craft the item (like 2 hours on the last stage, or something. In wow, some crafted items have a 24 hour cooldown, why not an crafted VG item that takes 3 hours to craft on the last stage (then its comparable to an adventurer sitting in a dungeon for 3 hours to get his sword of uberness)). And make all colored gear BOE!

In Summary, make adventurer "dungeon" loot which is colored, BOE.

Help restore and improve the Vanguard MMO economy.

Cheers

Shade Maelstorm / Mael / Tharridon server
Vanboi for life!
http://www.vgoracle.com vg wiki, harvesting guide, newbie guide, tweaking guide, diplomacy guide, kos chart, resource chart, crafter recipe lists, Vanguard trading card game http://www.vgoracle.com/index.php?ti...ding_Card_Game, check it out!

Attached are cards from the Vanguard Trading Card Game (proposed)

[MoS]

Originally Posted by Shade Maelstorm

I am grateful that Sigil did see the light in making crafted items which are colored BOE, but it wont work unless adventurer drop gear which is colored is also BOE.

Atm, demand for crafted gear is dropping because crafted gear is BOE and cannot be resold once worn. However adventurer dropped loot (referred to for sanity sake as "dungeon loot") can be resold and so dungeon loot is the logical gear type to be bought.

This is a point I was trying to make before when I posted all colored gear needs to be BOE.

This is what wow does and its easily understood why.

Until adventurer colored gear ("dungeon loot") is BOE, crafters gear will continue to drop in terms of demand, (hey the gear on both sides is comparable except one is BOE and one isnt), until dungeon loot which is colored is BOE.

If we want the Vanguard MMO economy to continue, and whilst Sigil are fixing the dupes and removing plat from the economy, as one of the Sigil devs has stated its their top priority, then Sigil would do well for all colored gear, where it is crafted or dungeon loot, to make these items BOE, all of them (if they are colored, ie not white)!

If there was any disparity between the player perceived value of crafted gear and dungeon loot before crafted items were made BOE, then the best way to have fixed that is to simply extend the time required to make the item, not to make one side BOE and screw the other side over.

Please make dungeon loot, ie adventurer loot, if its colored, BOE. Vanguard crafters forum has a post on crafted gear BOE and its debilitating effects on the Vanguard crafter community (when dungeon loot is not BOE).

BOE on one side only wont work, and if, when both sides gear is compared, crafters gear comes out better, then for goodness sake, increase the time required to craft the item (like 2 hours on the last stage, or something. In wow, some crafted items have a 24 hour cooldown, why not an crafted VG item that takes 3 hours to craft on the last stage (then its comparable to an adventurer sitting in a dungeon for 3 hours to get his sword of uberness)). And make all colored gear BOE!

In Summary, make adventurer "dungeon" loot which is colored, BOE.

Help restore and improve the Vanguard MMO economy.

Cheers

Shade Maelstorm / Mael / Tharridon server
Vanboi for life!
http://www.vgoracle.com vg wiki, harvesting guide, newbie guide, tweaking guide, diplomacy guide, kos chart, resource chart, crafter recipe lists, Vanguard trading card game http://www.vgoracle.com/index.php?ti...ding_Card_Game, check it out!

Attached are cards from the Vanguard Trading Card Game (proposed)

No, i dont want every equip to be BoE, this is not WoW....

I am a crafter and i cant even find lvl 31-40 rare items at the broker to deconstruct (heavy armor for embersteel ores). And if they would even make rare drop equip BoE then i wouldnt be able to find anything at the broker -.-

And there is still a very high demand on crafted gear, i sell T4 rare equip easily, no problem with that, even on Frengrot... the "dead" server ~.~

[Shade Maelstorm]

Originally Posted by MoS

No, i dont want every equip to be BoE, this is not WoW....

I am a crafter and i cant even find lvl 31-40 rare items at the broker to deconstruct (heavy armor for embersteel ores). And if they would even make rare drop equip BoE then i wouldnt be able to find anything at the broker -.-

And there is still a very high demand on crafted gear, i sell T4 rare equip easily, no problem with that, even on Frengrot... the "dead" server ~.~

I forgot to mention the BOE status would need to be altered, such that they can still be traded and deconn'd but just not worn again, thanks for pointing that out.

Cheers

Shade Maelstorm / Mael / Tharridon server
http://www.vgoracle.com vg wiki

[Gecon]

Originally Posted by Shade Maelstorm

This is what wow does and its easily understood why.

I dont care what WoW does, I play Vanguard. If you want to play WoW, THEN GO PLAY THAT and dont infiltrate MY game with that stuff just because you're used to it !

I vote for getting rid of the stupid "Bind on Equip". If the only way you think you can fix the economy is by making it impossible to trade the wares, then you are really clueless.

BoE fixes the economy by destroying it.

[Vaernimus]

Originally Posted by Gecon

I dont care what WoW does, I play Vanguard. If you want to play WoW, THEN GO PLAY THAT and dont infiltrate MY game with that stuff just because you're used to it !

I vote for getting rid of the stupid "Bind on Equip". If the only way you think you can fix the economy is by making it impossible to trade the wares, then you are really clueless.

BoE fixes the economy by destroying it.

I hate to break it to you, but you'll remain angry all your MMO life if you expect there to be zero comparisons between the current 600lb gorilla WoW, and any competing MMOs.

Back to the OP - i agree, it makes sense to level the playing field. The trick is to find a way to make the high tier items accessible for decon post-usage. Personally I propose a priced system that means you must pay 50% of the items original cost on top of the base cost to a ccrafter NPC in order to release the bound soul. Just an idea.

[Andok]

Originally Posted by Vaernimus

I hate to break it to you, but you'll remain angry all your MMO life if you expect there to be zero comparisons between the current 600lb gorilla WoW, and any competing MMOs.

Back to the OP - i agree, it makes sense to level the playing field. The trick is to find a way to make the high tier items accessible for decon post-usage. Personally I propose a priced system that means you must pay 50% of the items original cost on top of the base cost to a ccrafter NPC in order to release the bound soul. Just an idea.

Well therein lies the problem, while this may help the crafter, it definitely hurts the adventurer that does not craft. We would no longer be able to sell the gear we upgraded, except to crafters, which limits our economy. And adventurers do not make much money fighting as it is.

Having everything BOE, forces people to do parts of the game they may not enjoy in order to make any money at all. So, IMO, this is not a viable solution. The best way of handling this would be by making rare and ultra rare recipes drop solely from mobs, thereby giving the adventurer a marketable item that could fetch decent profits and by making crafting gear the best gear in game.

Boss mobs drops rare and ultra recipes, crafters buy recipes, crafters craft rare and ultra rare equipment, adventurers buy equipment, nice flowing economy.

Harvesters already have their cash cow, crafters have theirs, adventurers need something to give them a viable income solution as well, and not being able to resell your old gear to other adventurers is not the solution.

[Vaernimus]

Originally Posted by Andok

Well therein lies the problem, while this may help the crafter, it definitely hurts the adventurer that does not craft. We would no longer be able to sell the gear we upgraded, except to crafters, which limits our economy. And adventurers do not make much money fighting as it is.

Having everything BOE, forces people to do parts of the game they may not enjoy in order to make any money at all. So, IMO, this is not a viable solution. The best way of handling this would be by making rare and ultra rare recipes drop solely from mobs, thereby giving the adventurer a marketable item that could fetch decent profits and by making crafting gear the best gear in game.

Boss mobs drops rare and ultra recipes, crafters buy recipes, crafters craft rare and ultra rare equipment, adventurers buy equipment, nice flowing economy.

Harvesters already have their cash cow, crafters have theirs, adventurers need something to give them a viable income solution as well, and not being able to resell your old gear to other adventurers is not the solution.

Aye I understand where you're coming from. I certainly don't have the answer. Personally however, I see BoP items as being far more game-breaking than BoE items. After all, it is the players' choice whether to effectively 'remove' the item from the player market simply by wearing it. Nothing is stopping them selling it on if they so choose. Which is where making cash as an adventurer should stem from.

Unless in VG BoE means BoP as well, in which case ignore the above

edit: when I refer to adventurer loot stemming from item drops, i'm referring more about the grind which more often than not offers the adventurer what they really need. For me personally, i'd have no idea what recipe was worth what, but i'd know exactly how much a piece of armour would be worth. Hope that clarified it

[ekre]

no way, boe is bs, what we need is a working decay system (ala pre-cu swg, it had the best economy, just FYI its broke when the new bind system and the anti decay kits got in game)

[Vaernimus]

Originally Posted by ekre

no way, boe is bs, what we need is a working decay system (ala pre-cu swg, it had the best economy, just FYI its broke when the new bind system and the anti decay kits got in game)

What about a combination? Where BoE items have decay once soulbound. non-BoE items suffer no decay as they remain in trade indefinitely.

[Zaraj]

Bind on equip is a HACK, a game artifact that SUBSTRACT from fun.

Please dont ask for more BOE.

[Multiplex]

We need the DAOC system...

1. Items have both Durability and Quality which start at 100 each.

2. As items are used the Durability slowly drops from 100 all the way down to 0.

3. As an item is repaired the Durability goes back up to 100 but as you go in for repairs each time your Quality begins to drop from 100 to 0.

4. As an item decreases in Quality the stats begin to lose some effect until the item eventually becomes useless.

[ekre]

Originally Posted by Multiplex

We need the DAOC system...

1. Items have both Durability and Quality which start at 100 each.

2. As items are used the Durability slowly drops from 100 all the way down to 0.

3. As an item is repaired the Durability goes back up to 100 but as you go in for repairs each time your Quality begins to drop from 100 to 0.

4. As an item decreases in Quality the stats begin to lose some effect until the item eventually becomes useless.

yep, dnl has the same system. boe is not so good, its not a solution.
for example, at lvl50 who the hell will buy new items? no one. so crafters will lose their customers. and who the hell will buy items just for a few lvl? just a few, but most of us will not. what will happen when most players will have their huge ship? no one will buy a new one.
an equipment for lifetime is bs, it couldnt be a good economy system.

[au+]

We don't need any decay system.

We need to have the crafting and harvesting spheres removed, as well as the ability to trade items. With the economy gone, it can no longer cause problems.

(it's fun to post ideas that ruin other people's fun, I thought I'd join in)

[MoS]

Originally Posted by Multiplex

We need the DAOC system...

1. Items have both Durability and Quality which start at 100 each.

2. As items are used the Durability slowly drops from 100 all the way down to 0.

3. As an item is repaired the Durability goes back up to 100 but as you go in for repairs each time your Quality begins to drop from 100 to 0.

4. As an item decreases in Quality the stats begin to lose some effect until the item eventually becomes useless.

Thats really a nice system.

[Hatto]

Originally Posted by MoS

Thats really a nice system.

Indeed it is, but to make it work you need a game that not focuses only on gaining items. DAOC got PvP, I think SWG was similar, but what you got in VG? One chief reason is to gain items to well, efficiently gain more items. It would not work.

The other idea about the complete removal of crafting and harvesting is actually alot more apropriate to address the issues that arise in a pure PvE MMO. I don't really like BoE and BoP, but applied to ALL items its a way that is known to work.

[pablo0713]

Shade,

While I appreciate your enthusiasm towards Vanguard, I'd have to say that BoE is the wrong way to go. This is not WoW. I do not want my gear to become meaningless after I equip it. It is my gear and I should have the right to do what I please with it. If this means give it away or sell it, it should be my choice.

The two biggest things I hated about WoW was BoE and Instancing. Apart from making crafted gear BoE, if Sigil moves the game further into BoE territory, well, I just might seriously quit.

[Roland]

I'd prefer a BoE or BoP system 100% more than a decay system. I want to use the items I decide to use and not be worrying about my gear decaying.

As in all things (especially in VG heh) opinions vary on this topic.

This is mine

And my vote is to spread it across Crafted & Adventure drops, make it even. You'll have the turn over in items without dealing with "decay".

I hate decay...can you tell? lol

Regards,

[tdewey10]

Only quest gear should be BoE (and it really shouldn't be BoE should be BoP). Dropped/Crafted loot should not be BoE (except if you choose to soulbind it).

[lomiller]

Originally Posted by Andok

Well therein lies the problem, while this may help the crafter, it definitely hurts the adventurer that does not craft. We would no longer be able to sell the gear we upgraded, except to crafters, which limits our economy. And adventurers do not make much money fighting as it is.

Without an item sink like BOE or permanent item damage adventures are screwed as well. What point will there be to ever go out and kill stuff if everything that drops can be purchased for almost nothing? Without an effective and mandatory item sink this is what will eventually happen.

Originally Posted by Andok

Boss mobs drops rare and ultra recipes, crafters buy recipes, crafters craft rare and ultra rare equipment, adventurers buy equipment, nice flowing economy.

Harvesters already have their cash cow, crafters have theirs, adventurers need something to give them a viable income solution as well, and not being able to resell your old gear to other adventurers is not the solution.

There is no such thing as an ultra rare item unless there is a mechanism to remove them from the game. Sure they start off and rare, but every drop makes them less so and eventually there are so many in the game they are considered worthless trash.

You can slow down this process but you can’t stop it without removing the items from the game somehow. If they do go the route of slowing down this natural devolution of al dropped loot into worthless trash don’t expect to get a drop that is actually worth anything very often, as the only items that retain some semblance of work will only be seen with weeks or months of regular play.

[Dibit]

Originally Posted by Shade Maelstorm

Atm, demand for crafted gear is dropping because crafted gear is BOE and cannot be resold once worn. However adventurer dropped loot (referred to for sanity sake as "dungeon loot") can be resold and so dungeon loot is the logical gear type to be bought.(proposed)

I think you are missing the big picture. BoE by itself is not causing the crafted gear demand to drop - AND - making one mass general change to all adventuring gear in the economy is not going to fix the demand issue. Its the fact that crafted gear is priced to high to be worth it...there are many reasons for this: harvesting rares and decon rares are too rare so gouging and shortages are widespread; the average wealth of players who only adventure is really low; etc etc etc.

The economy needs to be balanced not "fixed". Just like class balancing, this issue will involve a combination of a few bigger changes (BoE on crafted items, stop the item and gold dupes) and some smaller tweaks (increased drop rates on all rares/ultra rares, item quality rescale) as a solution.

-Dib