[Atoyota]

Originally Posted by darkarius

I read alot of your comments and they are usually very critical but I have to say this one you hit right on the head, I don't think it could be said any better.

For me it's elementary...

I'll give Brad some hindsight, what he should have done.

It's OK that 50 got work, in fact Brad may have had a hand in this, or that maybe SOE just felt it was wiser to have some of the Sigil peeps there to help with the transition.
It's OK that Brad retains an income as a consultant, after all he got the project started.

What is not OK is that Brad forgot or never understood that the most valuable asset of any company is it's people. That even though they hired on possibly knowing this job may not last, that success of Sigil and their employment rested with the game. Brad forgot his people... he just let some guy fire them all, and that the deed was very impromptu and impersonal.

Even if it hurt, Brad should have made the announcement, a little speech and thanks for the work done, and even better (even were it out of pocket) a farewell Sigil bar-b-que and meal to take some of the pain away, with parting gifts or favors (possibly overkill but you get the idea).

Just something other than... "you are all fired" delivered by Platter in a parking lot.

I just feel it was shameful the way it was handled, with complete disregard for the "people" who now must go their own way. Not much thanks in that...

[Rigournecro]

For all the "advice to Brad givers" and "My game isn't the way I want it" complainers...you will never experience / achieve anything close to what Brad has done. You will never be responsible for millions of dollars, hold the position of CEO, or create anything that someone else would pay for, let alone stock on the shelves of Best Buy. You will continue to work crappy jobs with little reward and your anger will continue to be vented in little game site forums where you mistakenly believe you matter. Because lets face it, if you guys did know everything then it would be you that the gaming sites were hailing as the next great developer....but they aren't now, are they?

For those of you that post on this, upset that they fit the bill, and desperately try to convince others that they are something they are not, please don't resort to spelling or grammar errors...its the last stand of a dead argument.

My work has long since allowed me the luxury to play a MMO for any amount of time, but I do enjoy on occasion logging in and playing one and I like most of this community had hoped for something a bit different. But that’s where it ends…hoped. I did my part in beta to send in a “few” bug reports and that’s all I can do. I am not Brad nor do I work for him. I have never sent a game to production, let alone several. Believing I can give “advice” on this thru a game forum is delusional and I am fairly alarmed that people think they can because you are probably preparing the food we eat.

[Sunderban]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

For all the "advice to Brad givers" and "My game isn't the way I want it" complainers...you will never experience / achieve anything close to what Brad has done. You will never be responsible for millions of dollars, hold the position of CEO, or create anything that someone else would pay for, let alone stock on the shelves of Best Buy. You will continue to work crappy jobs with little reward and your anger will continue to be vented in little game site forums where you mistakenly believe you matter. Because lets face it, if you guys did know everything then it would be you that the gaming sites were hailing as the next great developer....but they aren't now, are they?

For those of you that post on this, upset that they fit the bill, and desperately try to convince others that they are something they are not, please don't resort to spelling or grammar errors...its the last stand of a dead argument.


My work has long since allowed me the luxury to play a MMO for any amount of time, but I do enjoy on occasion logging in and playing one and I like most of this community had hoped for something a bit different. But that’s where it ends…hoped. I did my part in beta to send in a “few” bug reports and that’s all I can do. I am not Brad nor do I work for him. I have never sent a game to production, let alone several. Believing I can give “advice” on this thru a game forum is delusional and I am fairly alarmed that people think they can because you are probably preparing the food we eat.

Everyones opinion matters. Maybe in your elite world you hold your luxurious self so high in you have forgotten that us little people that cook your hamburgers are part of the same society. In complex societies we all share and express our thoughts as a whole. These ideas we all vocalize shape us usually for the better. We let each other know when we have ****ed up and that pressure makes us better people. If your gonna bitch and vent on us little hamburger cookers at least save your conceited, condescending attitude for someone that cares and say something intelligent.

[rhagz]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

For all the "advice to Brad givers" and "My game isn't the way I want it" complainers...you will never experience / achieve anything close to what Brad has done. You will never be responsible for millions of dollars, hold the position of CEO, or create anything that someone else would pay for, let alone stock on the shelves of Best Buy. You will continue to work crappy jobs with little reward and your anger will continue to be vented in little game site forums where you mistakenly believe you matter. Because lets face it, if you guys did know everything then it would be you that the gaming sites were hailing as the next great developer....but they aren't now, are they?

The industry is much like the movie industry or music.. it really isn't what you know or what you can do.. it's who you know and who you can do. Connections mean more than talent.

[ShamanKnight24]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

For all the "advice to Brad givers" and "My game isn't the way I want it" complainers...you will never experience / achieve anything close to what Brad has done. You will never be responsible for millions of dollars, hold the position of CEO, or create anything that someone else would pay for, let alone stock on the shelves of Best Buy. You will continue to work crappy jobs with little reward and your anger will continue to be vented in little game site forums where you mistakenly believe you matter. Because lets face it, if you guys did know everything then it would be you that the gaming sites were hailing as the next great developer....but they aren't now, are they?

For those of you that post on this, upset that they fit the bill, and desperately try to convince others that they are something they are not, please don't resort to spelling or grammar errors...its the last stand of a dead argument.

My work has long since allowed me the luxury to play a MMO for any amount of time, but I do enjoy on occasion logging in and playing one and I like most of this community had hoped for something a bit different. But that’s where it ends…hoped. I did my part in beta to send in a “few” bug reports and that’s all I can do. I am not Brad nor do I work for him. I have never sent a game to production, let alone several. Believing I can give “advice” on this thru a game forum is delusional and I am fairly alarmed that people think they can because you are probably preparing the food we eat.

Nice job yourself there sir. Seems you probably have the same job you accuse others of having and therefore allowing them no opinions whatsoever. Its always good to see elitist pricks like yourself pop their heads into forums once in a while. I always get a good laugh off of posts like this. I really don't care how much Brad is in charge of, or what luxury car he drives. Vanguard was a total failure and us "normal" people are trying to help out the people involved. Brad went about everything horribly if you ask me, but let me stop here. I'm not allowed to have an opinion. I forgot Rigournecro. I apologize. /bow /kiss feet

[Rigournecro]

Just as I predicted and then some. Wow, really touched a nerve...lol.
The only opinions you guys can give is with your wallet.

Originally Posted by ShamanKnight24

I apologize. /bow /kiss feet

Apology accepted, now give me a cheeseburger hold the mayo...

[Rigournecro]

Random Employee: "Hey Brad, there is a little hamburger cooker on a vanboi site named Sunderban that thinks you need to make some changes. He also thinks that everyone’s opinion matters and in complex societies we all share and express our thoughts as a whole. These ideas we all vocalize shape us usually for the better.

Brad: "I think he has been watching too much of the documentary channel? What we need to do is take his advice right now and throw out everything he doesn’t like and start over"

RE: "But ShamanKnight24 thinks it should be done this way and he doesn’t care what kind of luxury car you drive."

B: "Well do it his way then"

RE: "Uhmm...Rhagz thinks we should do it this way…and he belives the industry is much like the movie industry or music... it really isn't what you know or what you can do.. It’s who you know and who you can do. Connections mean more than talent…"

B: "What the heck does that mean? Do I know Rhagz? Let’s hire my cousin Vic. How many opinions are there, is everyone an armchair QB?"

RE: "Well you know the joke about opinions right?"

Your fantasy life is starting to overlap fellas. It’s time to realize that the people at the top are not interested in your opinions, just your money. Until you take that away you will be ignored and marginalized. Free yourself of the “but I wants…” and sleep easy. Until you do you will live an angry life and want to wear lots of black…

[Atoyota]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

Just as I predicted and then some. Wow, really touched a nerve...lol.
The only opinions you guys can give is with your wallet.

Which is exactly what happened...

The game sold itself

[rhagz]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

RE: "Uhmm...Rhagz thinks we should do it this way…and he belives the industry is much like the movie industry or music... it really isn't what you know or what you can do.. It’s who you know and who you can do. Connections mean more than talent…"

B: "What the heck does that mean? Do I know Rhagz? Let’s hire my cousin Vic. How many opinions are there, is everyone an armchair QB?"

What's funny is this is EXACTLY what happened. Nepotism was rampant and it helped doom the game.

Your fantasy life is starting to overlap fellas. It’s time to realize that the people at the top are not interested in your opinions, just your money. Until you take that away you will be ignored and marginalized.

Fancy that. Half of Sigil was fired in a parking lot, the remainder bought out by SOE, the existing playerbase is shrinking and the servers are being merged. What were you saying again? Looks like people have done exactly what you suggest. You think people post here because they expect Brad to listen to it and act upon it? Please.

[Sunderban]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

Random Employee: "Hey Brad, there is a little hamburger cooker on a vanboi site named Sunderban that thinks you need to make some changes. He also thinks that everyone’s opinion matters and in complex societies we all share and express our thoughts as a whole. These ideas we all vocalize shape us usually for the better.

Brad: "I think he has been watching too much of the documentary channel? What we need to do is take his advice right now and throw out everything he doesn’t like and start over"

RE: "But ShamanKnight24 thinks it should be done this way and he doesn’t care what kind of luxury car you drive."

B: "Well do it his way then"

RE: "Uhmm...Rhagz thinks we should do it this way…and he belives the industry is much like the movie industry or music... it really isn't what you know or what you can do.. It’s who you know and who you can do. Connections mean more than talent…"

B: "What the heck does that mean? Do I know Rhagz? Let’s hire my cousin Vic. How many opinions are there, is everyone an armchair QB?"

RE: "Well you know the joke about opinions right?"

Your fantasy life is starting to overlap fellas. It’s time to realize that the people at the top are not interested in your opinions, just your money

Until you take that away you will be ignored and marginalized. Free yourself of the “but I wants…” and sleep easy. Until you do you will live an angry life and want to wear lots of black…

lol....DUH! did you really need to clarify that? I appoligize if my post was too ambiguous for you...i thought it would have been fairly easy for you to connect the dots?! seems speaking with our wallets is exactlly what we have been doing as players and if you havn't noticed....games not doing very well financially

and in case you missed it brad made many changes because players weren't happy with his product. unfortunatelly to little to late but maybe if he had taken the time to listen from the beggining to our meaningless opinions he wouldn't be in the trouble he's in now. But that wasn't my gripe in this thread. Beleive it or not i actually like the game.

See the part you didn't seem to grasp because you seem a bit over anxious to attack us poor hamburgler cookers...(im sorry for your issues...it takes time to grow out of adolescence Rigo...someday you will get there) is that in capitalist based culture you sell your ideas to others. You have to have something us common folk want and if you dont listen to our wants you don't make any money (unless your one of the lucky bastards who owns part of the gas/oil industry). So generally speaking you either sell us what we want or need or eventually we will tell you with our pocketbooks and wallets that you didn't listen.

[Rigournecro]

Let me get this straight.
1. You guys believe your opinion matters.
2. You have stopped paying to play a game you don’t like.
3. You still post on a vanboi site.
4. You get upset when someone points out how ridiculous it
is to fit the above profile. Don't be angry at me, you only
have yourself to blame.
I guess hamburgler cookers can’t read Sunderban because
I said the only thing they want from you is your money
which you went on to restate. The only influence you will
ever have with something this large is you standing in a
check-out line. Period dot.
The VISION did not include you!
When they wanted feedback they asked for it.
If someone got fired they had it coming. If the game had
6 million subscribers they would still be employed.
Nobody owes you a thing.
Whining about it on a game forum just affirms our
suspicions that your are insecure about yourself and need
recognition.

If you have stopped paying then leave and spare us the
“they should have done this” line because there aren’t many
things more pathetic than a complainer that isn’t even playing.

If you are still paying, go do some crafting and hold your breath
until they get in touch with you to get your opinion.

Now get all upset, call me names (like you always do) and tell
me how YOUR opinion matters…how YOUR complaining makes
a difference…how YOUR voice brings change.

F.Y.I. I linked the Vanguard site in ’04, played in beta and still
a paying member. I like the game, wish a few things were different
but you can read my posts and see I don’t whine about it.
Time to grow up, it might have worked with mommy but the rest of
the world could really care less.

[Atoyota]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

F.Y.I. I linked the Vanguard site in ’04, played in beta and still
a paying member. I like the game, wish a few things were different
but you can read my posts and see I don’t whine about it.
Time to grow up, it might have worked with mommy but the rest of
the world could really care less.

F.Y.I.
1. Your opinion does'nt matter to me
2. I don't consider SV a Vanguard site anymore
3. People profile or think what they wish, goes along with opinions and A-holes, we all got em. What you have done is exactly what we have done but in reverse. It makes you no better and no worse. I just hope you feel better now, because I sure do

[Spirit]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

stuff

The irony is that the people you're preaching to don't care what you think either. But fight the good fight, you're really moving mountains with your pretend dev chats
and
badly
formatted
posts.

[Sunderban]

Oh Rigo...don't get so upset...we still wuv you.....

/bigsmooch
/pinchbutt

[Grimore Valentine]

Originally Posted by Rigournecro

Let me get this straight.
1. You guys believe your opinion matters.
2. You have stopped paying to play a game you don’t like.
3. You still post on a vanboi site.
4. You get upset when someone points out how ridiculous it
is to fit the above profile. Don't be angry at me, you only
have yourself to blame.
I guess hamburgler cookers can’t read Sunderban because
I said the only thing they want from you is your money
which you went on to restate. The only influence you will
ever have with something this large is you standing in a
check-out line. Period dot.
The VISION did not include you!
When they wanted feedback they asked for it.
If someone got fired they had it coming. If the game had
6 million subscribers they would still be employed.
Nobody owes you a thing.
Whining about it on a game forum just affirms our
suspicions that your are insecure about yourself and need
recognition.

If you have stopped paying then leave and spare us the
“they should have done this” line because there aren’t many
things more pathetic than a complainer that isn’t even playing.

If you are still paying, go do some crafting and hold your breath
until they get in touch with you to get your opinion.

Now get all upset, call me names (like you always do) and tell
me how YOUR opinion matters…how YOUR complaining makes
a difference…how YOUR voice brings change.

F.Y.I. I linked the Vanguard site in ’04, played in beta and still
a paying member. I like the game, wish a few things were different
but you can read my posts and see I don’t whine about it.
Time to grow up, it might have worked with mommy but the rest of
the world could really care less.

Looks like another E-Preacher looking for some attention

Move along, no one cares what you think.

[kjjjjjjk]

Originally Posted by Grimore Valentine

Looks like another E-Preacher looking for some attention

Move along, no one cares what you think.

I, for one, do

Originally Posted by Spirit

The irony is that the people you're preaching to don't care what you think either.

I think what Rigournecro is trying to point out is that fact that you people who are trolling the forums are not being logical.. and he/she is... and trying to make you see that... because he/she expects logic from human beings, but, oubviously, it will never come... so you guys will just keep on bashing a game that you "quit" such a long time ago

[Atoyota]

we just don't take pretentious BS too well i guess