[Labyrrinth]

Gamasutra spoke with SoE Producer Scott Hartsman on the future of EQII. In the article, EQII’s rocky start, including its flawed vision regarding its target audience, are examined. In addition to the initial failures, the games fantastic turnaround and resultant successes are also looked at.

Why the sluggish start? Up against the firestorm that is World of Warcraft, and by Hartsman's own admission laboring under a flawed vision of who would be playing the game, EverQuest II struggled in its first year of live service following its November 2004 launch. Since then, under the direction of Hartsman and people like now-departed lead designer Jason Roberts, the game has fundamentally changed in an effort to recapture the enthusiasm of past and current EverQuest players.

Check out the full article here.

[Delirin]

The recent press/reviews of EQ2 really tempts me to go back. The only problem is that I'm 2 xpacs (almost 3 now..) behind. So I'd have to buy the adventure packs/xpacs and pay a subscription fee to play.

This is where I think sony goes wrong in MMO lifespan, coming back just isn't easy as it's quite an investment.

[shemyaza]

Originally Posted by Delirin

The recent press/reviews of EQ2 really tempts me to go back. The only problem is that I'm 2 xpacs (almost 3 now..) behind. So I'd have to buy the adventure packs/xpacs and pay a subscription fee to play.

This is where I think sony goes wrong in MMO lifespan, coming back just isn't easy as it's quite an investment.

the EOF release includes the original game + each exspansion in one package. you don't get the smaller adventure packs , tho.

edit: this seems to be the new standard for SOE. the upcoming kunark expansion will be release eq2+kos+dof+eof+rok all in one go.

[Dillgaar]

SoE needs to go the way of other games and start offering free downloads of their older x-packs after 6 months-1year so that folks can jump on and pick up easily enough where everyone else is

They did somethign similar by grouping the old eq expansions into a bundle and selling it cheap but you were always 1 or two expansions short of being able to play the full game if you went that route

[Ganter]

Originally Posted by Dillgaar

SoE needs to go the way of other games and start offering free downloads of their older x-packs after 6 months-1year so that folks can jump on and pick up easily enough where everyone else is

They did somethign similar by grouping the old eq expansions into a bundle and selling it cheap but you were always 1 or two expansions short of being able to play the full game if you went that route

I think I read somewhere that SOE wouldnt be charing for adventure packs anymore. That they would just offer new content for free (that aren't expansions).

[Dillgaar]

Originally Posted by Ganter

I think I read somewhere that SOE wouldnt be charing for adventure packs anymore. That they would just offer new content for free (that aren't expansions).

They currently have 3 expansion packs out though...

Desert of Flame
Kingdom of Sky
Echoes of Faydwer

Having to go back and buy all of those as well as the base game is pretty spendy... if they want to increase their numbers and welcome people back, they should look into either bundling the base with these expansions or releasing these expansions for free since the Kunark expansion is due out...

having to buy the base game and 4 expansions is a lot to ask of people who want to try it but are timid due to the previous history the game has had.

[Ganter]

yea you are right. That would be a nice thing for them to do. Can you get away with just buying EoF expansion which includes the expansions and NOT get the adventure packs?

[shemyaza]

Originally Posted by Dillgaar

They currently have 3 expansion packs out though...

Desert of Flame
Kingdom of Sky
Echoes of Faydwer

Having to go back and buy all of those as well as the base game is pretty spendy... if they want to increase their numbers and welcome people back, they should look into either bundling the base with these expansions or releasing these expansions for free since the Kunark expansion is due out...

having to buy the base game and 4 expansions is a lot to ask of people who want to try it but are timid due to the previous history the game has had.

as i stated above, if you buy the latest retail version of eq2 (echoes of faydwer, atm)
you will get all previous expansion packs free of charge.

new players can get upto speed and have all content excluding the adv. packs for the price of a single game.

when ruins of kunark comes around you will then get the 3 previous expansions along with it plus the original game for free, if you buy the retail box. for new subscribers that's a good deal.

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by shemyaza

for new subscribers that's a good deal.

Or those of us who tried it at launch and have yet to go back again.

I don't know. I think I'd still be more likely to hold out for something like Tabula Rasa and see if it holds to changing the 'whack a mole style' than going back to something that's previously released. Sure, EQ2 and Vanguard could change, but they also may not change a whole lot from what they were before. I think, for me, I'll have a 'wait and see' attitude towards the older game updates and also see what new games are trying out, like Tabula Rasa.

[shemyaza]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

Or those of us who tried it at launch and have yet to go back again.

I don't know. I think I'd still be more likely to hold out for something like Tabula Rasa and see if it holds to changing the 'whack a mole style' than going back to something that's previously released. Sure, EQ2 and Vanguard could change, but they also may not change a whole lot from what they were before. I think, for me, I'll have a 'wait and see' attitude towards the older game updates and also see what new games are trying out, like Tabula Rasa.

i can only speak for myself, but i tried the eof expansion (started completely fresh on a new server) while waiting for tbc to come out. the difference from eq2 at launch to post-eof eq2 was night and day. all the things that made me finally quite eq2 (and my friends do the same) do not exist anymore. if i hadn't invested so much time in wow i'd have probably went back.

now that i'm floating around with no firm attachment to any game, i'll be buying the rok expansion when it hits and maybe stick around this time.

oh, yes, you're right about it being good value for returning players also.

[rabb1t]

I peeped the free fey trial, and yeah, it seems pretty different from what it was at launch. Enough to convince me to spend $ on the expansion and a monthly fee... I don't know. As above, (even if I had the $ right now) I think I'd be more likely to simply wait till Tabula Rasa comes out and see what it has to offer compared to the Kunark reviews.

[RedRider]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

I peeped the free fey trial, and yeah, it seems pretty different from what it was at launch. Enough to convince me to spend $ on the expansion and a monthly fee... I don't know. As above, (even if I had the $ right now) I think I'd be more likely to simply wait till Tabula Rasa comes out and see what it has to offer compared to the Kunark reviews.

The big thing is that EQ2 is here right now and Tabula Rasa may or may not be released this year. After my Vanguard stint, I returned to EQ2 and besides my constant complaint of not enough character slots (even though we will be gaining a extra one this month.), I think I will be there for a while.

If you haven't played since release, I advise you to go with a brand new account and take advantage of the 30 days free you will get. But of course, if you don't have the cash, you don't have it and that pretty much decides it for you.

I am a bit scared of TR, I guess its because its from a big name of a past MMORPG, who is promising a super new experience, reminds me too much of the current Vanguard disaster...

[GnomerBreltik]

TB looks interesting but I dont know how it will balance the fps style with the persistance of an mmo. TB could go either way, really good or fantastically awful, and I would want to make sure before I purchased it.

There are a lot of interesting games over the horizon, but it will be a 'wait and see' for more than one person. MMOs are still large time commitments even for the more casual crowd, so folks are starting to get a bit more picky.

I started playing LoTRo lately and am having fun, but it is another whack a mole style game. It is fun for the present time so I will stick with it till something completely different like Star Trek Online, TB, Age of Conan or a game I'm watching called infinity. http://www.fl-tw.com/Infinity/infinity_faq.php#a3.1

Right now a lot of folks are making the same chocolate cake with different frosting or sprinkles, will be neat if someone makes pudding.

[Delirin]

Originally Posted by Ganter

I think I read somewhere that SOE wouldnt be charing for adventure packs anymore. That they would just offer new content for free (that aren't expansions).

exactly what they should be doing, I don't see how they can compete otherwise. I've gone back to eq2 once before (DoF xpac) and had to buy 3 adventure packs along with the DoF retail box to catch up. If they stick to one xpac a year (as opposed to every 6 mos) and free adventure packs I would be much more likley to return.

With all of the free content released with WoW and EQ2's other competition, it's about time for these changes. Hell, there are even a good deal of decent free to play games out now. Dungeon runners is out thursday (nc soft) and I'll be giving that one a few hours of my time at least.

[Kayd]

Just for the edification of an old EQ2 player that quit shortly after release, what are the things that people hated most that are now fixed. For me there were several problems. Here are some things I didn't care for:

1) All the classes within an archetype played the same so it was like there were really only four classes.

2) I really never cared for SOEs idea of in-game trading, it encouraged you to just leave your computer on and a character logged in while you sleep, work etc. I'd much rather have a auction house or no global trading at all.

3) Shared exp penalty just never worked well. If you grouped with someone careless or kamakazi, he could rack up all kinds of exp debt for you even though you never died.

There were others such as the way encounter locking worked, the way combat didn't seem very strategic, soloing was a little too easy, etc.

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by Kayd

so it was like there were really only four classes.

I like Valkyrie best, good mix of offense, defense and mobility... er... nm.

Just for the edification of an old EQ2 player that quit shortly after release, what are the things that people hated most that are now fixed.

I can't say if the issues were "fixed" or not, but the thing I hated at release was how completely lost I felt. It's like a quest said 'do x' and I'm like 'um... so where would that be?'. A lot of the quests didn't even mention what section of the city or zone they wanted you to go to. So I was faced with the choice of feeling lost and confused or "going to kill some more vermin".

When I did the Fey trial the noob area there seemed a lot clearer. They clearly stated the goal of the quest and where they wanted you to go (or you had already been there in a prior step.)

I think what I didn't like about combat was that it was you'd push the same button over and over and over. Of course, that could have just been due to being low level. (I think I got to maybe like 10th with my highest character.) That may have also had something to do with the old school 'choose your class later' design they had. The pally I tried during the Fey trial didn't seem 'as bad' with spamming the same button over and over. (Though I think by the time the trial ended I still only had like 4 or 5 abilities, and a couple were similar.)

What really killed it for me was that the zones were really empty feeling. I had no real clue where to go, where everyone was, how to find other people, and yet it seemed like it was absolutely critical to group to get anything done.

Shared exp penalty just never worked well.

Never heard of that.

the way combat didn't seem very strategic

Yeah, I do recall not being very impressed with the AI. But what are you going to do. With a 'whack a mole' style game that's really how it goes. Unless you incorporate elements of trading card games, the strategy they offer will be very limited.

[Jindrisek]

I quit eq2 because during the time I started vanguard and ddo beta, eq2 was a bit frustrating. The combat revamp, SOGA models I hate, and horrible graphics on the new armor models sent me running away with my tail between my legs. And I did not like the DOF expansion much. Besides all that, my guild was getting all dramatic and people were leaving left and right. The guild is still there going strong, but I could not join them again... too much drama.

I am giving WOW a good try at the moment. The game seems fun, although its a little easy and the ONLY thing that makes it hard is the horrible community. I cant stand joining a group that invites a real high level player to make things easier... that ticks me off.

I went to gamestop today to pick up a copy of EOF but they only had one copy and the box was open so I didn't want to bother buying it. If I get frustrated enough with WOW I will give EQ2 another try. But in the mean time I waiting for Warhammer in hopes that it is another DAOC... but I wont hype myself up about it because I'm tired of being dissapointed by new MMO's.

[Jindrisek]

Is it true that you can transfer characters to another server now? I am on the Najena server because when I started EQ2 I worked odd hours, so I decided to go to the official aussie server. I work more normal hours now so I would probably want to move to another server.

[Ayen]

Originally Posted by Jindrisek

Is it true that you can transfer characters to another server now?

For 50$ US each character.

[Rowain deWolf]

Originally Posted by Kayd

Just for the edification of an old EQ2 player that quit shortly after release, what are the things that people hated most that are now fixed. For me there were several problems. Here are some things I didn't care for:

1) All the classes within an archetype played the same so it was like there were really only four classes.

A lot of that had to do with that you seperated from your Archetype at 10 and finally reached your real class at 20 making the differénces feelable at lvl 30. This is no longer the case as you choose your realclass now at the start and get your classspecific spells right away.
Be warned so the similarities are still not completly gone and for me (having resubscribed EQ2 and bought the Fay-expansion) the Vanguard-classes have still a lot more depth and unique feeling than the EQ2-classes

Originally Posted by Kayd

2) I really never cared for SOEs idea of in-game trading, it encouraged you to just leave your computer on and a character logged in while you sleep, work etc. I'd much rather have a auction house or no global trading at all.

this has been removed 3 month into release. You can sell now while beeing offline, adventuring or what ever. You can put the things you want to sell directly at the Broker without the need to return to your house.

The searchfunction on the Broker is by far superior to the one in VG

Originally Posted by Kayd

3) Shared exp penalty just never worked well. If you grouped with someone careless or kamakazi, he could rack up all kinds of exp debt for you even though you never died.

Another thing they got rid of very early. There is no shared Debt anymore and no shards. the only effect death has now is a 10% hit on your itemdurability (whoich is cheap to repair) and a very minor XP-debt which is payed of within 2-3 Mobs.

Originally Posted by Kayd

There were others such as the way encounter locking worked, the way combat didn't seem very strategic, soloing was a little too easy, etc.

Nothing has changed here

Other things that have changed sonce release:
Crafting has no longer subcomponents or interdependencies. It is simple grab all resources go to the station select a recipe, hit the right counters and voila you get the complete product (which if it isn't craftet from a rare won't sell anyway)

There are now AA-points available. For those you lvl up your advancements(don'T know how they are really called in game) once you are lvl 10 adventurer. To lvl the advancements you get Advancement xp which you get for completet quests and for location-discoveries so it is quite easy to get the first few AA-points to spent.
They have added a second way of spending the AA-points which is classspecific (the first is more stat-specific and was the same for the good and bad side of a class for example Templar and Inquisitor have the same) and can alter the way a class plays. the Inquisitor-line for example transforms him into a battlepriest which can tank.