[Gecon]

I have written it so often yesterday and today, but I'll write it one last time again:

THE PATCH DID NOTHING TO OUR DEFENSE OR OUR HEALING

Except, and really only except, if a Cleric took Preservation as Affinity. Then he might get overall a bit better defense.

So if you complain about the patch, at least complain about the new dps of Clerics, and the advantages of the several Affinities. And dont mix up the advantages of several different Affinities - we can only have one of them at a time, so claiming a Cleric has a DoT (Death only) and 400% Finishers (War only) and a stance with Stun Immunity (Preservation only) makes you only look more stupid.

Therefore do NOT complain about "Clerics can handle x-dots". And x-dot we could handle AFTER the patch, we could already handle BEFORE the patch. So why do you complain about "Clerics can handle x-dots" NOW ? Why where that no problem to you before ?

[Eukament]

Originally Posted by Gecon

Therefore do NOT complain about "Clerics can handle x-dots". And x-dot we could handle AFTER the patch, we could already handle BEFORE the patch. So why do you complain about "Clerics can handle x-dots" NOW ? Why where that no problem to you before ?

But we love the drama!

Anyway, I'll pipe in with that you say above, this is true. I can do excactly the same I did before the patch, just now it takes me a shorter time. Now I can also actually kill someone in PvP, before the patch they just got bored and ran away or brought in friends to help kill me.

I can probably do some near death encounteres that I couldn't before, just because my DPS is much better and I can do much more damage before my mana run out.

[Roamer]

Originally Posted by Gecon

THE PATCH DID NOTHING TO OUR DEFENSE OR OUR HEALING

"A good offense is the best defense"

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by Gecon

I have written it so often yesterday and today, but I'll write it one last time again:

THE PATCH DID NOTHING TO OUR DEFENSE OR OUR HEALING

Except, and really only except, if a Cleric took Preservation as Affinity. Then he might get overall a bit better defense.

So if you complain about the patch, at least complain about the new dps of Clerics, and the advantages of the several Affinities. And dont mix up the advantages of several different Affinities - we can only have one of them at a time, so claiming a Cleric has a DoT (Death only) and 400% Finishers (War only) and a stance with Stun Immunity (Preservation only) makes you only look more stupid.

Therefore do NOT complain about "Clerics can handle x-dots". And x-dot we could handle AFTER the patch, we could already handle BEFORE the patch. So why do you complain about "Clerics can handle x-dots" NOW ? Why where that no problem to you before ?

Quit being 1-sided.

I have heard the damage numbers all FOUR of my guildies new cleric alts. Its the same as my rogues highest attack "Shiv" and much more frequent. Damage in this game is so ****ed up, as well as mob difficulty.

Mana regen needs looked into as well as the DPS of certain non DPS classes.

[Gecon]

Originally Posted by Roamer

"A good offense is the best defense"

Not with 4-, 5- and 6-dots. They simply have too much hitpoints. Even a sorcerer will require some time to kill them.

Originally Posted by Cobalty2004

Quit being 1-sided.

This sentence really confused me, and its kinda hard what to answer to it. I simplyl fail to see the argument behind that sentence. So if I state the truth I'm "onesided" ?

... dps ...

Well, at least you have read my initial posting.

[Thain]

Can I still Complain about being a Disciple??

[Gecon]

I will not argue against that Disciples and Shamans need a review, bugs fixed, and some stuff simply changed and improved.

Personally I dont see why Monks are in the game at all, other than to satisfy the fanboys of that class. Compared to Ranger they get maybe about the same dps, but very little else.

Disciples, as a class, are a great idea, but their implementation suffers from the same shortcomings as the Monk.

[Lord_Bachus]

Nothing to our healing?

Some overpowering bugs, Wraith touch I does 5-10 times more damage and healing as indicated in the spelldescription.

Mellee spell does 75% weapon damage (white damage is 150) + 100
Result i hit for over 400...the same thing happens to all mellee damage, it does 3 times more damage as the description indicates.

Result reasonable geared (yellow URT quest gear and blue weapon/shield) death Cleric at level 25. I solo at Tranquil keep with only self buffs.

-5 dot level 24 beatle
-4 dot level 27 spider
-3 x 3 dot level 26/27 Orcs (one rooted)

And i totally love it. I kill faster then a bloodmage, i do more DPS at 25 against the same mobs as my level 28 bloodmage.

[ivierlin9]

Originally Posted by Lord_Bachus

Nothing to our healing?

Some overpowering bugs, Wraith touch I does 5-10 times more damage and healing as indicated in the spelldescription.

Mellee spell does 75% weapon damage (white damage is 150) + 100
Result i hit for over 400...the same thing happens to all mellee damage, it does 3 times more damage as the description indicates.

Result reasonable geared (yellow URT quest gear and blue weapon/shield) death Cleric at level 25. I solo at Tranquil keep with only self buffs.

-5 dot level 24 beatle
-4 dot level 27 spider
-3 x 3 dot level 26/27 Orcs (one rooted)

And i totally love it. I kill faster then a bloodmage, i do more DPS at 25 against the same mobs as my level 28 bloodmage.

The affinities themselves may need tweaking, but I don't see them being that overpowering. Level 25 is hardly representative.

They do, however, make cleric a compelling choice compared to all the other healers. Especially to a lvl 45 disc (me).

[Founder Apache]

Originally Posted by ivierlin9

The affinities themselves may need tweaking, but I don't see them being that overpowering. Level 25 is hardly representative.

They do, however, make cleric a compelling choice compared to all the other healers. Especially to a lvl 45 disc (me).

If I were a class balance developer who cared (do they exist?) and wasn't part of what I see as a plot for SOE to back pocket Vanguard so that EQ 2 fanbois aren't tempted to leave - then I would spend an afternoon doing the following:

Create 1 of each class with equivalent yellow (no heroic) gear respect of level 50.
I would then commence with trying each class in a solo pve effort vs various ranged, stunning, nuking, meleeing, mobs and focus on the +'s and -'s of each class vs the mobs in question. I would create a spread sheet so to speak i.e., average time it took for a 50 (insert class) to beat (insert level 50 mob). I would perform each action say 10 times and note downtime, dps parser, account for self heals - regen - etc.

Secondly, for the sake of showing pvp players SOE shows concern for the playing enjoyment of pvp player subscriptions (we do spend $$$ too to play this game so it really is unwise to ignore us considering low subscriptions atm) - I would engage each team lead with a class of my choice, especially when I read (and kept faithful track of) statements made on forums by customers/subscribers. Just as a note I would create a level 50 sorcerer, cleric, ranger, shaman, rogue, etc. and give Venge (Warrior Team Lead) a taste of what we go through on a daily basis
so could just get team leads that grind on pve servers a heads up on what they need to be aware of for those red headed step child servers I believe are known as Team/FFA (sarcasm).


Anyway, not to digress, I would post results of my inquiry. I would welcome players to parser their own results and only accept viable testing which I would succinctly define a "how to" guide for their benefit.

A simple class investigation example of my work would be something like:

The SOE class dev team has noted a particular issue with complaints about the viability of the disciple class in pvp, as well as their overall benefit to groups in comparison to the remaining three healing class.

Therefore, to continue our support of and to as well meet the needs of our player base on this matter, we have tested the Disciple class in the following scenarios and provided our results. We will list the issues that will be addressed as well as those we do not feel need to be modified with an explanation as to why or why not.

1 vs 1 pvp vs (x classes) with posted results

1 vs 1 healing effectiveness in 4 example scenarios vs (x classes) with posted results

A posted spread sheet of the buffs and possible benefit comparison of the Disciple class vs Cleric (all 6 affinities listed), Rakuur/Hyatet/Tuurgin Shaman, Blood Mage

A posted comparison of mitigation values, offensive damage values, benefits of using + to heal gear vs + to vitality/wisdom



Now I obviously do not work for SOE. I have a rather broad undergrad degree in various liberal arts with a number of grad credits. I have no computer experience whatsoever. But I feel I do have something: A customer's desire to get more, as well as what I percieve as the common sense to expect more.

My question is: WHY IS IT THAT WHAT I OUTLINED ABOVE ISN'T HAPPENING?

[Gecon]

Originally Posted by Lord_Bachus

Nothing to our healing?
Some overpowering bugs, Wraith touch I does 5-10 times more damage and healing as indicated in the spelldescription.

Hu ? Wraith Touch is bugged and doesnt heal me at all. Only version I actually operates, I've been told. Anyway the healing from Wraith Touch isnt that big anyway, so I dont care.

Mellee spell does 75% weapon damage (white damage is 150) + 100
Result i hit for over 400...the same thing happens to all mellee damage, it does 3 times more damage as the description indicates.

I dont understand this part at all, wtf is "Melee spell" ? But its true, my weapon damage was suddenly much higher than before, if that is what you mean. I only have no clue why.

Result reasonable geared (yellow URT quest gear and blue weapon/shield)

Eh ? Yellow gear is not reasonable gear. Unless you finish special farming questlines (such as URT, or VT etc), farm or craft a lot, have a good guild, or likewise income, you will very likely have blue.

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by Gecon

I will not argue against that Disciples and Shamans need a review, bugs fixed, and some stuff simply changed and improved.

Personally I dont see why Monks are in the game at all, other than to satisfy the fanboys of that class. Compared to Ranger they get maybe about the same dps, but very little else.

Disciples, as a class, are a great idea, but their implementation suffers from the same shortcomings as the Monk.

Thats funny, two monks got the top parse on yestedays groupage, of 18 people.

[Kaltor]

Originally Posted by Gecon

I dont understand this part at all, wtf is "Melee spell" ? But its true, my weapon damage was suddenly much higher than before, if that is what you mean. I only have no clue why.

If you are death cleric then since most if not all your abilities are spiritual based. Therefore since death stance gives +30% spiritual damage you will see an increase in overall damage.

[mscouts777]

Originally Posted by Lord_Bachus

Result reasonable geared (yellow URT quest gear and blue weapon/shield) death Cleric at level 25. I solo at Tranquil keep with only self buffs.:

well... if no one else will say it I will.... OMFG where the hell is Tranquil Keep?.....

you obviously are lying as if you spent anytime there you would know it is Trengal Keep..... not tranquil

so as that is the case, I have totally ignored everything else you had to say,....

especially that part of how your cleric out damages a bloodmage..... (you obviously dont know how to play your bloodmage)

[Lord_Bachus]

Originally Posted by mscouts777

well... if no one else will say it I will.... OMFG where the hell is Tranquil Keep?.....

you obviously are lying as if you spent anytime there you would know it is Trengal Keep..... not tranquil

so as that is the case, I have totally ignored everything else you had to say,....

especially that part of how your cleric out damages a bloodmage..... (you obviously dont know how to play your bloodmage)

Take it like you want, and start whining when they normalise cleric DPS next patch. Killing Level27 3 dot scars in less then 15 secconds is not overpowering for a level 25 cleric, while a level 28 bloodmage needs 15 to 20 secconds to kill the same mob...oh hell yeah, i don't know how to play my bloodmage.

[Faelor]

Well, I thought I would add to the fun. I made part of this a movie (flying around with my wyvern acting all cool, swooping down, obtaining the quest, flying up and killing the named.) BUT alas, after ~4-5 mins of filming my computer was running out of room. So here is a screenshot to show the ending. The fight was about ~25 minutes long. At about ~21 minutes I thought "Ah hell, let's go offensive. Because the mob healing itself and I'm not making any progress!" Low and below, with the help of stuns and criticals popping up (again, Clerics have no automatic stun except their finisher which is a random chance), I managed to finally kill the bastage.

So... A level 28 Cleric (Preservation, note: the pres abilities did not come in to play) killed a level level 25 5dot mob with large nukes and a -huge- heal (the bar would sometimes display 130% hp when it healed itself at ~50%, and one time it went from ~20% to about 90%, it is HUGE, which is why the fight stalled for about 25 mins).

For those wondering, the Cleric is geared in all Infineum (except the BP, mostly Blessed Plate except shoulders and helm, those are regular plate for the stats), and all STR/HP jewerly. As you can see in the screenshot I'm at 280 STR self-buffed (and more with Strength of the Gods, woo-woo. Kind of funny because with what I had in the mail I would be at about ~298). So a lot of the damage comes from myself just being obsessed with strength. As a Thestran Human, every level beyond ten I go 5 Str, 5 Vit, 4 Wisdom (not that Wisdom really helps given the Cleric's efficiency. I originally went Dex to see how much I could crit and max parry, which wasn't great. But it isn't like I'm level 50.)

- Faelor

[Faelor]

Originally Posted by Cobalty2004

Thats funny, two monks got the top parse on yestedays groupage, of 18 people.

Don't forget the two Rangers, including me But yeah, Monks are just sick with Celerity. They can easily out-do a Ranger... Too bad we didn't have a Rogue there to test. We had about 21 folks that I parsed over a few hours

** Sorry for double post. I am embarrassed

[Muggi]

EDIT: Dammit Faelor, you beat me to the retelling of your uberness

[Loampounder]

Originally Posted by mscouts777

well... if no one else will say it I will.... OMFG where the hell is Tranquil Keep?.....

It's in Burned Woods.

Frankly, some people need something to complain about. They could play a cleric if they thought that class was too powerful, but then they could not complain. They have their priorities.

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally Posted by Lord_Bachus

Nothing to our healing?

Some overpowering bugs, Wraith touch I does 5-10 times more damage and healing as indicated in the spelldescription.

Are you calculating vitality? Do you have items that improve dmg and/or healing?