[Venge]

Originally Posted by Wasted

Still awaiting your response Venge. Since I am falsely informed, still awaiting what you have to say about my false statement.

I responded but then the lame power went out. Had a good one typed up too :\

[Dethecus]

Originally Posted by Venge

I have soloed actually. Soloed 8 of the 50 levels pre and post LA. And you want us to solo 4 dots? Um, not intended?

I dont expect us to solo 4dots, with a fixed system, but when you have necros soloing 6dot nameds and not even flinching, then yeah i would expect us to be able to solo a 4dot with the current system, soloing a 4dot wasnt the point i was trying to make. And 8 levels isnt a big deal, i soloed 1-8 too. Im talking 40+ with no groups, it sucks badly

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Dethecus

I dont expect us to solo 4dots, with a fixed system, but when you have necros soloing 6dot nameds and not even flinching, then yeah i would expect us to be able to solo a 4dot with the current system, soloing a 4dot wasnt the point i was trying to make. And 8 levels isnt a big deal, i soloed 1-8 too. Im talking 40+ with no groups, it sucks badly

I bet it does suck badly. It comes with a dying community. I mean lets look at it. If it is by all means intended that people could solo 6 dots with ease. Then yeah, soloing 4 dots would be something to shoot for. But its not intended, not by a long shot. Busted game mechanics is delusional to class functions.

[Tuddar]

Originally Posted by Venge

I have soloed actually. Soloed 8 of the 50 levels pre and post LA. And you want us to solo 4 dots? Um, not intended?

And I think you are well aware that you did not fare as well during those 8 levels as you would playing any other class, save rogues.

Soloing 4dots and above, I don't care about. I expect that to get fixed. If it doesn't, then SOE/Sigils contention that it is not intended are hollow words. It is a bit ridiculous that the situation ever occurred in the first place, but that is water under the bridge now.

My beef, as well as I'm sure many others, is that even when doing solo content the warrior class fares poorly compared to almost every other class, with the exception of rogues.

To be blunt, I think it is startling for most folks to look around them in game and see what other classes can do, and then be told that we are fine and functioning largely as intended. Even disregarding the soloing of group mobs, it is plain to see there is a large gap between solo capabilities of the Warrior class and just about every other class in game. Even within our own archetype there is a sizable disparity.

Originally Posted by Venge

That's funny. If I had it my way, there would be no changes. Why? Because currently I have no problems with the warrior in doing my job, tanking or soloing.

That right there sums up the disjoint between yourself and many players.

Many warriors can plainly see that our solo capability is low compared to most other classes, even our tanking brethren. In exchange for that, we get...no clear advantage in tanking, because that would be unfair to the other tank classes and break the paradigm of the archetype system. You could argue our DPS in Offensive (if we are in group and not tanking), but that is already offset by our much lower DPS in Defensive.

I'll end this post by saying thank you for your continuing efforts on our part, and please reconsider your thoughts in regards to our current situation. Many of your fellow warriors are pleading with you and attempting to highlight these issues and raise your awareness. While all are aware you can merely tug ears on our behalf at SOE, we also realize that there is little hope of these issues getting addressed if you are in disagreement.

[Venge]

Thing is, if we agree or disagree, your feedback still makes it to them regardless. That's my job. Any feedback is good feedback.

[Tanahlai]

Originally Posted by Karnos

Personally, I am left wondering what great advantage we are supposed to have as tanks in defensive, considering our DPS in said stance is the lowest of all tanks and our aggro control without Withdraw isn't above average.

That is...profoundly inaccurate. If your DPS in defensive stance is lower than either knight's in defensive, you need to SERIOUSLY reconsider your equipment/strategy choices. Additionally, our aggro control is excellent. We tank as well as any of the other tanks. The PROBLEM is that while both of the other tanks have access to their secondary skillsets while fufilling their primary role, we largely do not.

[Tuddar]

Originally Posted by Tanahlai

That is...profoundly inaccurate. If your DPS in defensive stance is lower than either knight's in defensive, you need to SERIOUSLY reconsider your equipment/strategy choices. Additionally, our aggro control is excellent. We tank as well as any of the other tanks. The PROBLEM is that while both of the other tanks have access to their secondary skillsets while fufilling their primary role, we largely do not.

I'm afraid you are the one profoundly incorrect. In fact, that is so far gone it isn't even wrong. That's beyond wrong.

Both DK's and Paladin's have access to their 350/400% finishers in any stance. In fact, they have access to all their damage skills regardless of stance. Warriors have none of theirs. Yes, we have our Defensive finisher chain that does decent damage, but it is nowhere in the neighborhood of 350/400% finishers.

Warriors are fine group tanks and do just as well as their tanking brethren in doing their job, but their tradeoff for some of their superior aggro and defensive skills is DPS in Defensive stance.

[mrbandersnatch]

Originally Posted by Venge

Thing is, if we agree or disagree, your feedback still makes it to them regardless. That's my job. Any feedback is good feedback.

Well since its morning and I have a routine to check out this board anyways, heres feedback on the decision not to include the HP regen.

The NEED for some sort of HP regen/heal ability for the warrior class was identified after long feedback from players/class lead that :-

1) Downtime between fights was identified as an issue for the warrior class, being too long and the class was *dependant* on food to regen HP after EVERY fight.
2) The lack of any form of healing ability was identified as a major factor which placed them well behind DK/PAL in a solo or offtank situation.
3) The lack of viability in the solo game in comparison to their DK/PAL counterparts has been a CONTINUOUS source of complaints within the WAR community.
4) The HP regen was looked looked upon by all as solving these problems.

The END regen idea, as far as it was proposed to the WAR community, was a suplimentary one; it seemed to be born out of the understanding that DK/PAL have HP+END+ENERGY are USEFUL and POWERFUL in complimeting their core and solo roles; whereas for WAR, the class is reliant on HP+END and gets very little (comparitively) from ENERGY. If anyone had asked the player community "what do you want, end or hp regen? " the vote would have been overwhelmingly for HP.

As it stands we are now being given something :-

1) That no one asked for.
2) That does not address the core class problem.
3) That does not address an identified class problem.

Given we know that this will probably be the last class pass before the expansion, given that this was something promised to us for at least 3 months now; its a kick in the teeth to the player base who where expecting the class to be "fixed". The current changes arnt fixes - they are tinkering by someone who doesnt understand the class, isnt listening to player feedback, and isnt going to solve class balance issues since they are either unwilling or unable to address core problems.

On a positive note, it has at least given me the incentive to email billing to cancel my account; not my sole reason for cancelling however this is without the straw...and my camel needs a chiropractor.

[Gecon]

Sorry, but as long as the devs say they wont give Warriors healing, well... they wont give it.

Personally I would say even if they give Warrior dps instead, it puts Warriors behind the other tanks in respect to tanking itself. Because a Paladin or Dread Knight can heal himself, and the Paladin even others, quite efficiently. That IS an advantage even to the job itself.

While I had earlier practically exclusively parties with Dread Knights as tanks, recently I had a couple of Warriors and Paladins for a long time. Granted, having a Warrior is much better than having no tank at all, but when it comes to tanking really tough stuff, the Paladin and Dread Knight seem to be definitely better, because they can add to the overall healing of the group.

And thats a problem.

[Karnos]

Originally Posted by Tanahlai

That is...profoundly inaccurate. If your DPS in defensive stance is lower than either knight's in defensive, you need to SERIOUSLY reconsider your equipment/strategy choices.

I don't know where you think our ostensibly competitive DPS in defensive is coming from. You do realize that paladins and dread knights have 350% and 400% finishers accessible to them in defensive? None of our defensive finishers come even close to that. Heck, our chain-castable defensive finisher doesn't even take weapon damage into consideration but simply affords constant--and thus unscaling--damage.

How about the fact that our 400% killing blow isn't available either in defensive? Paladins and dread knights both get to use their respective killing blows in defensive.

What about our AE and AE finishers being inaccessible in defensive? I believe Dread knights get to use their AE in defensive, too, and my paladin alt certain doesn't lose his anti-undead AE just because he switches to his tanking stance.

Have you considered that our learned ability, Destroy, can't be triggered in defensive? Neither of the other two protective fighters have such an issue.

No, your uninformed statements notwithstanding, our DPS isn't even remotely comparable in defensive. I play a paladin in addition to my warrior main, so I should know. And that's not even mentioning dread knights, the tank with the by-far highest DPS in defensive.

Originally Posted by Tanahlai

Additionally, our aggro control is excellent. We tank as well as any of the other tanks.

Our aggro control vs single mobs is on par with that of the other tanks. We only take the lead when Withdraw is taken into consideration. Which is why I specifically mentioned that particular ability as one of the three advantages which we still retain compared to the other protective fighters. Unfortunately, the more people in your group, the less Withdraw does for us.

On raids, obviously, its impact will be marginalized, just as was the case with regards to the single-target hate reducer guardians in EQ2 had, so we're back being on par with the other tanks in terms of hate generation, and actually inferior to paladins when it comes to aggro recovery, considering the power of their rescues.

[framinal]

glad i canceled

more empty promises, not from you venge, but from the game

youve always been on our side i believe, thanks

[Pudsley]

Originally Posted by Venge

And you are saying? I relay information as its given to me. You think I'm smiling about it? Seriously now.

Yeah, Leap Attack was going to make it. Well if they don't find it top priority then that's their business. I can push and push for it, but it won't come any faster. Alot of things have gotten pushed back in VG aside Leap Attack. Don't act so surprised. And I deserve flames? Ok!

First of all, I took a little extra care to try and deflect my flames somewhat at SOE, unfortunately it seems I didn't do a good enough job, I aologise for that, I did however tag ont he end "you deserve flames, or at least the devs do...." with the exception of that frist part of the sentence no where will you see my disappointment directed at you personally in my thread.

Still, I don't think you are particularly bothered about a lot of this stuff not making it in, with the exception of the poor job of being the messenger you've made it fairly clear you have few problems with the way the Warrior is now.

You use a fixed group for the most part, you dropped Rahz Inkurr pretty early in your group, if the rest of us had a fixed group then we'd have little to no problems, but the simple fact is we end up mix and matching, in my guild we happen to have 4 Paladins and 1 Warrior (myself), the server pop is down so we're lacking members as are most other guilds, frankly with that many Paladins I'm obselete, not needed for anything, I'm there to fill a hole in the group.

Sure I do pretty impressive DPS in OFF stance but the DPS'ers for obvious reasons do far more, I capped out mit on my armour but then again so have the Paladins, with Lull, healing, ressurection and many other neat little tools a Warrior hasn't got a chance, I've just got to sit back and hope I'm more useful in raiding, which franky I can't see happening.

Sure if there was a higher population we'd bebetter off, but we'd still be the poor cousin in the defensive fighter archetype.

[Mortifera]

OK.. seriously.. W-T-F... This isn't directed at Venge BTW.

Confirmations:

- Leap Attack will not be making its comeback until expansion...(hears the flames)
- Wardar's Bulwark will be recieving a change. More than likely a reduced mitigation amount...maybe other things to compensate?
- We will NOT be recieving an HP regeneration. Instead we will recieve Blood Rage. Was a trade off and we got endurance.
- Hate generation will NOT be increased...like we need it?
- We will not be recieving any new abilities after Blood Rage.
- Passives are scrapped until...expansion?
- No Immunities will be granted against Stun. Use Ironfoe wisely.
- We will NOT be recieving long duration buffs or debuffs.
- Disarm will remain humanoid only.



I so like it how in one week we are getting all those wonderfull things, then the next week.. uh.. maybe in the next expansion or we aren't getting them anymore.

And.. why do I feel like I'm getting nerfed somehow ?? (see red words).

Seriously, this is a joke. Can't they sit down and MAKE A PLAN, HAVE AN OBJECTIVE, HAVE A VISION AND CARRY IT OUT. Do they decide what they will do or not dpeending on who makes the coffee that morning???

I'm very dissapointed by these notes...

[Hat]

I just wish we got a reason. it seems whenever war wants something half decent the answer is just 'nah not gonna happen' or 'its overpowered' seemingly for no good reason. it's like they just dismiss anything that sounds remotely useful before even investigating it.

[Avariel]

I guess its mothball time for my warrior.

Endurance regen over desperately needed HP regen!?!
No! No more eggs for me! I'm out of here!

[Dethecus]

Looks like its time to quit the game, or if your that hardcore time to reroll a new class, because clearly warriors are the worst class in the game. Warriors are inferior to pally and DK in soloing and only on par with tanking. Warriors have NOTHING to compensate for their lack of soloing because of the stupid "all tanks are suppose to tank equally well"
Seriously WTF

[Avariel]

Originally Posted by Dethecus

Looks like its time to quit the game...

This is exactly what I have done.
And no, someone already has my stuff.

[Cobalty2004]

Solo'ing should have its imbalances, but at the same time be pretty balanced.. for example:

A paladin should take longer to kill a mob due to low DPS, but his heals would all but diminish any downtime.

A warrior would blow through a mob like a hurricane.. but we would have to rest to regen HP.

And a DK would be in between....

So you would think this would even out...

But the paladin/dk can solo mobs that the warrior CANNOT blow through due to this ****ing game's brokenness...

How in the hells can you make the core of any MMO (the MOBS) that broken and still broken 6 MONTHS into release....

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Mortifera

OK.. seriously.. W-T-F... This isn't directed at Venge BTW.

Confirmations:

- Leap Attack will not be making its comeback until expansion...(hears the flames)
- Wardar's Bulwark will be recieving a change. More than likely a reduced mitigation amount...maybe other things to compensate?
- We will NOT be recieving an HP regeneration. Instead we will recieve Blood Rage. Was a trade off and we got endurance.
- Hate generation will NOT be increased...like we need it?
- We will not be recieving any new abilities after Blood Rage.
- Passives are scrapped until...expansion?
- No Immunities will be granted against Stun. Use Ironfoe wisely.
- We will NOT be recieving long duration buffs or debuffs.
- Disarm will remain humanoid only.



I so like it how in one week we are getting all those wonderfull things, then the next week.. uh.. maybe in the next expansion or we aren't getting them anymore.

And.. why do I feel like I'm getting nerfed somehow ?? (see red words).

Seriously, this is a joke. Can't they sit down and MAKE A PLAN, HAVE AN OBJECTIVE, HAVE A VISION AND CARRY IT OUT. Do they decide what they will do or not dpeending on who makes the coffee that morning???

I'm very dissapointed by these notes...

Hehe make a plan and stick with it...that's the problem with VG in general unfortunately.

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by Venge

Hehe make a plan and stick with it...that's the problem with VG in general unfortunately.

Well.. with that philosophy we will have all those new abilities and changes after they change their mind AGAIN, by a few weeks?