[Venge]

Originally Posted by Cobalty2004

Solo'ing should have its imbalances, but at the same time be pretty balanced.. for example:

A paladin should take longer to kill a mob due to low DPS, but his heals would all but diminish any downtime.

A warrior would blow through a mob like a hurricane.. but we would have to rest to regen HP.

And a DK would be in between....

So you would think this would even out...

But the paladin/dk can solo mobs that the warrior CANNOT blow through due to this ****ing game's brokenness...

How in the hells can you make the core of any MMO (the MOBS) that broken and still broken 6 MONTHS into release....

Thus what I said. And its understandable that if they won't fix the mobs, then bring the warriors up. But in all honesty, that's the wrong way to work around it. They SHOULD fix the mobs first then work around it.

But yes, 6 months later and its still like this so its the given impression that it will remain like this. If it does then we deserve better. Hell to be honest this is more threatening to tanks in general as you don't need a tank to do 99% of the content.

Its just degrading that its been this long and we haven't seen the improvements that have been overdue. If one thing happens, then another will fall in place. That first thing has yet to happen.

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Cobalty2004

Well.. with that philosophy we will have all those new abilities and changes after they change their mind AGAIN, by a few weeks?

Hehe what philosophy does VG follow under again? You would know better than I would heh.

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Pudsley

First of all, I took a little extra care to try and deflect my flames somewhat at SOE, unfortunately it seems I didn't do a good enough job, I aologise for that, I did however tag ont he end "you deserve flames, or at least the devs do...." with the exception of that frist part of the sentence no where will you see my disappointment directed at you personally in my thread.

Still, I don't think you are particularly bothered about a lot of this stuff not making it in, with the exception of the poor job of being the messenger you've made it fairly clear you have few problems with the way the Warrior is now.

You use a fixed group for the most part, you dropped Rahz Inkurr pretty early in your group, if the rest of us had a fixed group then we'd have little to no problems, but the simple fact is we end up mix and matching, in my guild we happen to have 4 Paladins and 1 Warrior (myself), the server pop is down so we're lacking members as are most other guilds, frankly with that many Paladins I'm obselete, not needed for anything, I'm there to fill a hole in the group.

Sure I do pretty impressive DPS in OFF stance but the DPS'ers for obvious reasons do far more, I capped out mit on my armour but then again so have the Paladins, with Lull, healing, ressurection and many other neat little tools a Warrior hasn't got a chance, I've just got to sit back and hope I'm more useful in raiding, which franky I can't see happening.

Sure if there was a higher population we'd bebetter off, but we'd still be the poor cousin in the defensive fighter archetype.

Its not that I do not have problems with the warrior. I've noted pages of issues with the warrior, submitted + feedback from you guys. It makes the list. It only matters if it comes from the community whole and not just one person, aka myself. My PERSONAL gameplay I have no problems, of course that mainly involves tanking. That doesn't overshadow the other issues that have been with us for a while.

The primary issue is more tired into the game mechanics more than the warrior alone. We want to be brought up to speed in terms of what else we can provide, its reasonable. However, to keep buffing up classes to meet the expectations of a broken game doesn't float well in "long-term" survival. That's the issue we run into. The devs made it clear to me. I relay the message in the "easiest" terms as possible, or that I am allowed to.

I bring the news, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Its all I can do.

[Tanahlai]

Originally Posted by Karnos

I don't know where you think our ostensibly competitive DPS in defensive is coming from. You do realize that paladins and dread knights have 350% and 400% finishers accessible to them in defensive? None of our defensive finishers come even close to that. Heck, our chain-castable defensive finisher doesn't even take weapon damage into consideration but simply affords constant--and thus unscaling--damage.

How about the fact that our 400% killing blow isn't available either in defensive? Paladins and dread knights both get to use their respective killing blows in defensive.

What about our AE and AE finishers being inaccessible in defensive? I believe Dread knights get to use their AE in defensive, too, and my paladin alt certain doesn't lose his anti-undead AE just because he switches to his tanking stance.

Have you considered that our learned ability, Destroy, can't be triggered in defensive? Neither of the other two protective fighters have such an issue.

No, your uninformed statements notwithstanding, our DPS isn't even remotely comparable in defensive. I play a paladin in addition to my warrior main, so I should know. And that's not even mentioning dread knights, the tank with the by-far highest DPS in defensive.

Our aggro control vs single mobs is on par with that of the other tanks. We only take the lead when Withdraw is taken into consideration. Which is why I specifically mentioned that particular ability as one of the three advantages which we still retain compared to the other protective fighters. Unfortunately, the more people in your group, the less Withdraw does for us.

On raids, obviously, its impact will be marginalized, just as was the case with regards to the single-target hate reducer guardians in EQ2 had, so we're back being on par with the other tanks in terms of hate generation, and actually inferior to paladins when it comes to aggro recovery, considering the power of their rescues.

I don't know enough about dreads to testify to that fact, but I could probably agree that it is likely that they have the highest defensive DPS of the three. However, paladins do not crit ANYWHERE near the frequency of a warrior, and then they have four support buffs to maintain off those crits they do get as well. Their 350% finishers, even with a quick macro swap to 2H, with their crit rate and otherwise terrible DPS allows warriors to sustain a significately higher consistant damage output.

But yes, our shield bash finisher needs to scale with gear.

[rordell]

my 2 cents, for whatever they are worth.

Warriors who complain about not being able to solo as well as other classes are either A-on their first MMORPG and simply didn't know their role when they choose what toon to play, or B-clueless, and should be ignored. Soloing is not what we were meant to do. Would it be nice and cool if we could solo as well as some other classes? hell yes it would, but if that were the case, why would you even play any other class?

What we DO have a right to be upset about, is what has been mentioned time and time again. I can understand the original vision to have all 3 tank classes be able to tank equaly, and I have no problem with it. But we are getting screwed big time when being compared to the additional benefits that are owned by the pal or dk. With the pallys ability to lull, heal, remaining spells or the dk's lifetaps and other dmg spells, what is our benefit other than tanking? Sure we can dual wield for some extra dps, but that wont happen against end game boss mobs. Sure we can snap agro which can/will save a healer/group from a potential wipe. But all in all, Vanguard screwed us on this one when comparing the usefulness of all 3 tanks.

If warriors had passive/innate abilities that greatly improved our tanking over the dk/pally, such as immunity to stun, much higher comaprative miti, etc, then it would be different. If our dps was considerably higher, then it would be different. But as it stands right now, if you had to make a tank class tomorrow to play, you have no reason to make a warrior.

[Pudsley]

Originally Posted by Venge

Its not that I do not have problems with the warrior. I've noted pages of issues with the warrior, submitted + feedback from you guys. It makes the list. It only matters if it comes from the community whole and not just one person, aka myself. My PERSONAL gameplay I have no problems, of course that mainly involves tanking. That doesn't overshadow the other issues that have been with us for a while.

The primary issue is more tired into the game mechanics more than the warrior alone. We want to be brought up to speed in terms of what else we can provide, its reasonable. However, to keep buffing up classes to meet the expectations of a broken game doesn't float well in "long-term" survival. That's the issue we run into. The devs made it clear to me. I relay the message in the "easiest" terms as possible, or that I am allowed to.

I bring the news, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Its all I can do.

Fair enough, have to wait and see what they accomplish....the unfortunate thing is we've waited 5 months thus far.

Can't be helped at this point like many others I've decided to give it until AoC is released, I prefered VG because I'm more accustomed to the normal MMO style of play, but by the end of October the game will have had 10 months out of me (not including beta to be fair), if I still don't like my class and find very little interesting places to adventure then I'll have to close my account.

If it comes to that I'll probably resurface another 6 months down the line (if Conan doesn't fulfill it's promises) to see what progress Vanguard has made.

[Axle]

Originally Posted by rordell

my 2 cents, for whatever they are worth.

Warriors who complain about not being able to solo as well as other classes are either A-on their first MMORPG and simply didn't know their role when they choose what toon to play, or B-clueless, and should be ignored. Soloing is not what we were meant to do. Would it be nice and cool if we could solo as well as some other classes? hell yes it would, but if that were the case, why would you even play any other class?

What we DO have a right to be upset about, is what has been mentioned time and time again. I can understand the original vision to have all 3 tank classes be able to tank equaly, and I have no problem with it. But we are getting screwed big time when being compared to the additional benefits that are owned by the pal or dk. With the pallys ability to lull, heal, remaining spells or the dk's lifetaps and other dmg spells, what is our benefit other than tanking? Sure we can dual wield for some extra dps, but that wont happen against end game boss mobs. Sure we can snap agro which can/will save a healer/group from a potential wipe. But all in all, Vanguard screwed us on this one when comparing the usefulness of all 3 tanks.

If warriors had passive/innate abilities that greatly improved our tanking over the dk/pally, such as immunity to stun, much higher comaprative miti, etc, then it would be different. If our dps was considerably higher, then it would be different. But as it stands right now, if you had to make a tank class tomorrow to play, you have no reason to make a warrior.

This post pretty much sums up exactly how I feel, as well. I play in a fairly static group and have played with most of the same players since release. I agree 100% that the warrior is NOT meant to be a solo class. Should they give us something that allows us to solo at least moderately well? Probably considering the fact that I have solo'd once or twice... and then realized how absolutely terrible it was and decided to never do it unless I were forced to (See my previous posts about getting owned by 4 dots half my level ). It reminds me of that self-dentistry scene from castaway. I honestly don't see what harm could possibly come from giving warriors an innate out of combat regen to reduce downtime between fights. If it's out of battle regen it doesn't affect the general tanking mechanics of all your precious defensive fighters. You could add a 200 hp/tick regen or more and this won't affect d*ck in group dynamics when the typical level 50 mobs hits for over 1K.

On to the next point. There really isn't anything that defines the warrior as a tank right now. The "utility" type abilities that we've been given are simply pathetic and completely out of the context of a warrior. I don't want to be the class given a sad attempt at providing group utilities! We keep bards and such around to provide us with those delicious little tidbits! Abilties such as an attack that increases haste/accuracy for the warrior's group are stupid, imo. These abilities are generally pointless since a few other commonly played classes already give these effects which nearly cap us anyway. I'm not suggesting this be removed unless replaced with something else, though, since it is one of the few things warriors have in their solo game. In reality offensive form is only used when you're killing very weak mobs, when you're not main tank or when you are soloing.

On the other hand I think the commands are a neat idea in context considering the warrior is sorta like the experienced battle-hardened frontman calling the shots to his party when to "Press the attack" or "withdraw", or "strike now" while the opponent is weakened, sorta thing...

Given the concept of the all defensive fighters tanking equally thing, warriors are merely just "tanks" without the bells and whistles of the other defensive fighters. We need a reason why a group would actually want to have us as the tank. This was supposed to be accomplished with things like WB, but when we're all friggin capped with our MIT right now it is pointless. Venge mentioned other classes having more than STR/CON to focus on... Umm, yeah if you're focusing on crap like wisdom as a paladin you're wasting your points. I started a pally and found little use for improving wis over str/con/dex. All the 50 paladins in my guild give a resounding NO to upping wis, also.

IMHO I think the whole all tanks equal thing is a load of crap anyway. If you try to make every class the same you're gonna end up with a lame class system like EQ2 had when it came out where there was virtually no difference between any dps class, tank class, caster, etc... save a few abilities.

I agree with a lot of the posters that our damage in defensive is gimp. Have you ever attacked a 4 dot in defensive for a little while before the rest of the group assisted? Typically the mob will regen hp faster than you can damage it... I wouldn't mind seeing something that scales in damage based on our weaponry in defensive. I've posted about difficulty with aggro control in other threads and a large part of this is due to the fact that we have no aggro scaling or damage scaling when we're tanking such that when a class like a bard joins the group we have more difficulty keeping aggro when the dps of the other classes increases exponentially with damage % modifiers. I don't necessarily have a problem with doing less damage than other def fighters when in defensive, but then it better be clear that we actually have something to allow us to tank better (see WB/MIT cap thing again).

Here is my proposal:
- Fix the MIT cap problem!!! My suggestion was:
* 1 AC = 1/2 Current MIT bonus
* Mob Damage = 75% of current
* Heals = 75% of current
- You can either scale down WB mitigation to half to be in line with the AC/MIT "fix" I suggested or even better make it a passive constant 10%. See if you had waited to mention this until after you fix the mit problem it would have been better received, but you really just ticked everyone off since they think they're getting nerfed now (even though this ability is currently useless for most 45+ tanks).
- Make defensive abilities scale based on weapon damage, but don't allow the average of this damage to increase our overall defensive dps by that much (in other words just make it so we can take advantage of our crit abilities in defensive mode to add a little more dam).
- Add an innate out of combat hp regen for warriors. Call it "Will of the Warrior" or some fancy term and have it scale up in regen based on con, level or some combination of the two. Hell give it to all defensive fighters if you want so long as it helps keep the warrior from falling asleep between solo fights.
- I could care less about whether you add the new end regen ability. I won't cry if this doesn't make it in game. I would prefer to see a minor hp bonus in either both offensive/defensive or defensive alone instead of this ability.
- Replace offensive dot attack line with a "leap attack"esque ability with a highish crit rate, just so we're not limited to spamming whatever that other low damage ability is with the +constant damage when not kicking or using the one with the root on it (names escape me right now). Give it a fairly low refresh so it cannot be spammed, but still used occasionally during fights like the root one.
- Everything else STAYS THE SAME.
- Hire me to make these changes since I'm sure no one else will. (I'm debating whether this is a joke or not)

These aren't game changing abilities, but it will at least make us more viable as tanks to our groups and raids while improving the solo game without overpowering us.

Axle.

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Axle

This post pretty much sums up exactly how I feel, as well. I play in a fairly static group and have played with most of the same players since release. I agree 100% that the warrior is NOT meant to be a solo class. Should they give us something that allows us to solo at least moderately well? Probably considering the fact that I have solo'd once or twice... and then realized how absolutely terrible it was and decided to never do it unless I were forced to (See my previous posts about getting owned by 4 dots half my level ). It reminds me of that self-dentistry scene from castaway. I honestly don't see what harm could possibly come from giving warriors an innate out of combat regen to reduce downtime between fights. If it's out of battle regen it doesn't affect the general tanking mechanics of all your precious defensive fighters. You could add a 200 hp/tick regen or more and this won't affect d*ck in group dynamics when the typical level 50 mobs hits for over 1K.

On to the next point. There really isn't anything that defines the warrior as a tank right now. The "utility" type abilities that we've been given are simply pathetic and completely out of the context of a warrior. I don't want to be the class given a sad attempt at providing group utilities! We keep bards and such around to provide us with those delicious little tidbits! Abilties such as an attack that increases haste/accuracy for the warrior's group are stupid, imo. These abilities are generally pointless since a few other commonly played classes already give these effects which nearly cap us anyway. I'm not suggesting this be removed unless replaced with something else, though, since it is one of the few things warriors have in their solo game. In reality offensive form is only used when you're killing very weak mobs, when you're not main tank or when you are soloing.

On the other hand I think the commands are a neat idea in context considering the warrior is sorta like the experienced battle-hardened frontman calling the shots to his party when to "Press the attack" or "withdraw", or "strike now" while the opponent is weakened, sorta thing...

Given the concept of the all defensive fighters tanking equally thing, warriors are merely just "tanks" without the bells and whistles of the other defensive fighters. We need a reason why a group would actually want to have us as the tank. This was supposed to be accomplished with things like WB, but when we're all friggin capped with our MIT right now it is pointless. Venge mentioned other classes having more than STR/CON to focus on... Umm, yeah if you're focusing on crap like wisdom as a paladin you're wasting your points. I started a pally and found little use for improving wis over str/con/dex. All the 50 paladins in my guild give a resounding NO to upping wis, also.

IMHO I think the whole all tanks equal thing is a load of crap anyway. If you try to make every class the same you're gonna end up with a lame class system like EQ2 had when it came out where there was virtually no difference between any dps class, tank class, caster, etc... save a few abilities.

I agree with a lot of the posters that our damage in defensive is gimp. Have you ever attacked a 4 dot in defensive for a little while before the rest of the group assisted? Typically the mob will regen hp faster than you can damage it... I wouldn't mind seeing something that scales in damage based on our weaponry in defensive. I've posted about difficulty with aggro control in other threads and a large part of this is due to the fact that we have no aggro scaling or damage scaling when we're tanking such that when a class like a bard joins the group we have more difficulty keeping aggro when the dps of the other classes increases exponentially with damage % modifiers. I don't necessarily have a problem with doing less damage than other def fighters when in defensive, but then it better be clear that we actually have something to allow us to tank better (see WB/MIT cap thing again).

Here is my proposal:
- Fix the MIT cap problem!!! My suggestion was:
* 1 AC = 1/2 Current MIT bonus
* Mob Damage = 75% of current
* Heals = 75% of current
- You can either scale down WB mitigation to half to be in line with the AC/MIT "fix" I suggested or even better make it a passive constant 10%. See if you had waited to mention this until after you fix the mit problem it would have been better received, but you really just ticked everyone off since they think they're getting nerfed now (even though this ability is currently useless for most 45+ tanks).
- Make defensive abilities scale based on weapon damage, but don't allow the average of this damage to increase our overall defensive dps by that much (in other words just make it so we can take advantage of our crit abilities in defensive mode to add a little more dam).
- Add an innate out of combat hp regen for warriors. Call it "Will of the Warrior" or some fancy term and have it scale up in regen based on con, level or some combination of the two. Hell give it to all defensive fighters if you want so long as it helps keep the warrior from falling asleep between solo fights.
- I could care less about whether you add the new end regen ability. I won't cry if this doesn't make it in game. I would prefer to see a minor hp bonus in either both offensive/defensive or defensive alone instead of this ability.
- Replace offensive dot attack line with a "leap attack"esque ability with a highish crit rate, just so we're not limited to spamming whatever that other low damage ability is with the +constant damage when not kicking or using the one with the root on it (names escape me right now). Give it a fairly low refresh so it cannot be spammed, but still used occasionally during fights like the root one.
- Everything else STAYS THE SAME.
- Hire me to make these changes since I'm sure no one else will. (I'm debating whether this is a joke or not)

These aren't game changing abilities, but it will at least make us more viable as tanks to our groups and raids while improving the solo game without overpowering us.

Axle.

That's what we are. A Tank without Bells and Whistles. That's been know since....damn a while lol.

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by Venge

That's what we are. A Tank without Bells and Whistles. That's been know since....damn a while lol.

I agree that the warrior shouldn't have any bells or whistles.. but we should then become more about brute force and relentlessness in our "ways"

So we have the damage... ok check
We have the best MIT buff.... ok half a check considering how easy it is to cap MIT w/o the buff
We have a clicky stun immunity which is nice ... half a check seeing how a spec'd cleric has a freaking stance for it...
Unbreakable root for runners... half a check seeing how we have to be in offensive....
Have the best MIT debuff... check
A taunt bowshot... half a check seeing how the other classes can spam their ranged hate attack at POINT BLANK
Best self crit abilities... check


I could go on, but so many of our abilities still need looking into...
Forget about the new ones... lets fix our current ones

[Dethecus]

Originally Posted by rordell

Warriors who complain about not being able to solo as well as other classes are either A-on their first MMORPG and simply didn't know their role when they choose what toon to play, or B-clueless, and should be ignored. .

Its not about being able to solo, its about the fact that 15 other classes CAN with NO downtime and NO threat in doing so. WHY are we left in the dust with ZERO soloing capacities and are only on par with a DK and pally? Warriors should be THE ABOVE AND BEYOND tank NOT equal to the knights. We dont have any solo abilites, that i can live with, but when dks and pallys tank equal/better AND have the ability to solo is just foolish. All they did was make 3 def tanks tank equally well, and just gave soloing abilities to two of them.
Other wise i agree with ya.

[Sojuro]

No matter how much you bring it up, Warriors are not going to become a superior tank to Pal/DK. Simply put, if that happens just about every Pal and DK will leave this game in a heartbeat. We came here because we were told that all 3-4 tanks would have equal tanking ability. If I wanted another game where Warriors were the best tank and I was the towel boy, Id have stayed in EQ2, least I had practically all fabled and all masters.

Far as Warrior soloing capabilities, yes you guys need some love. You need to be able to access your 400% finishers in defensive, though I would suggest making them 300% if you are in defensive, 400% in offensive so to not give Warriors a definitive aggro generation advantage.
On the topic of soloing abilities, I just had a good idea. Create a self only command called Take Cover.

Take Cover
Target: Self
Cast: Instant
Recast: 20-30 seconds
Duration: 10-15 seconds (half of the recast)
Effect: Increases block rate by 50%. Increases hp regeneration by 3% of max hp per tick. Decreases your opponent's hatred of you by 5% of their total hate for you per second. (Cannot be toggled off early)

In layman's terms you step back and hide behind your shield to quickly tend to your wounds, meanwhile the mobs hitting you quickly get bored and move on to hit someone else. This way you can quickly and easily regenerate in combat, but it is a liability for grouping. % values are open to adjustment, but would be nice for it to be % based so you only need to get it once and it never fluctuates between useful and just another button.

[Mortezzah]

We have best damage in offensive. Not in defensive.
Mitigation = borked. Anyone can max mitigation with no buffs and just gear. And this is before raid gear is in game.
We are worst the solo'ers in the game.

We have the lowest DPS in defensive and can't self-heal or lifetap or aoelifetap. Given that everyone can max mitigation with gear in game, I'd put Warriors as worst main tanks.

Shrug. These changes didn't surprise me. It's what I expected of a sinking ship.

Until they make it so 4/5/6 dots can't be soloed, Warriors will remain on the bottom of the pile.

Can't wait to see the incoming DK improvements. It will further push the DK from ahead of Warrior to way ahead of Warrior. Then again it probably doesn't matter -- I'm giving Vanguard 50/50 it won't be financially viable 3 months from now and they will pull the plug.

[Tuddar]

Originally Posted by rordell

my 2 cents, for whatever they are worth.

Warriors who complain about not being able to solo as well as other classes are either A-on their first MMORPG and simply didn't know their role when they choose what toon to play, or B-clueless, and should be ignored. Soloing is not what we were meant to do. Would it be nice and cool if we could solo as well as some other classes? hell yes it would, but if that were the case, why would you even play any other class?

Are Paladins and DK's meant to solo then? I believe they are also meant to be tanks, and tank just as well as us.

So Paladins and DK's can solo better than a Warrior, tank as well in groups, yet if you brought a Warrior up to Paladin/DK levels, no one would play any other class? You really want to stand by that logic?

I see this strawman argument again and again, people proclaiming warriors want to solo as well as "other classes". No one expects to solo as well as the offensive classes or even the defensive casters for that matter, but I damn sure have an expectation that if I tank roughly equal to Paladins and DK's then my solo game should be roughly equal to theirs also. Especially in a game with an archetype system.

As far as the whole first MMORPG or clueless bit, I've been around since EQ beta and this is my 5th MMO in the fantasy class. I've been around enough to know that this "warrior isn't meant to solo" meme is a limitation of mindset, not one of game mechanics. Simply because previous games limited Warriors solo capacity doesn't mean that meme must be followed ad nauseum.

[Tanahlai]

Originally Posted by Tuddar

I've been around enough to know that this "warrior isn't meant to solo" meme is a limitation of mindset, not one of game mechanics. Simply because previous games limited Warriors solo capacity doesn't mean that meme must be followed ad nauseum.

YES! Even on these boards, from our own brethren, I see on a nearly daily basis some sort of draw to stay within the old confines of "I'm a big dumb brute with a big weapon heh heh heh heh" mindset. I mean WTF? Step up and embrace the change. Step up and demand it. Warrior is *the* class that has not weathered change in MMOs well, and it's because of closed minded thinking like this.

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by Mortezzah

We have best damage in offensive. Not in defensive.
Mitigation = borked. Anyone can max mitigation with no buffs and just gear. And this is before raid gear is in game.
We are worst the solo'ers in the game.

We have the lowest DPS in defensive and can't self-heal or lifetap or aoelifetap. Given that everyone can max mitigation with gear in game, I'd put Warriors as worst main tanks.

Shrug. These changes didn't surprise me. It's what I expected of a sinking ship.

Until they make it so 4/5/6 dots can't be soloed, Warriors will remain on the bottom of the pile.

Can't wait to see the incoming DK improvements. It will further push the DK from ahead of Warrior to way ahead of Warrior. Then again it probably doesn't matter -- I'm giving Vanguard 50/50 it won't be financially viable 3 months from now and they will pull the plug.

Well unless there is multiple contested raid mobs and at least 3-4 raid dungeons by Oct 30th they will probably lose my whole guild...

So I logged in for the first time in about 2 weeks yesterday to tank Jagund...
He throws that buff up... hits me for like 3k twice in a row.. I use adamant foeman... BIG MISTAKE

How in the hell do the devs think that ability is even remotely useful...

I never lost aggro and at 50% that ability caused me to never BEING ABLE TO GET IT AGAIN... wow what a kick in the teeth.

<Checks inbox for AoC beta>

[Venge]

Originally Posted by Cobalty2004

Well unless there is multiple contested raid mobs and at least 3-4 raid dungeons by Oct 30th they will probably lose my whole guild...

So I logged in for the first time in about 2 weeks yesterday to tank Jagund...
He throws that buff up... hits me for like 3k twice in a row.. I use adamant foeman... BIG MISTAKE

How in the hell do the devs think that ability is even remotely useful...

I never lost aggro and at 50% that ability caused me to never BEING ABLE TO GET IT AGAIN... wow what a kick in the teeth.

<Checks inbox for AoC beta>

You mean you didn't tank him in your sleep?

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by Venge

You mean you didn't tank him in your sleep?

Well it was pretty boring.. all was good until that buff wasn't dispelled in time.. then I was getting my ass kicked. Used that stupid ability Adamant Foeman and then waved any chance of me getting aggro back goodbye... thats pretty ****ed up considering I never lost aggro at all until then...

[Gecon]

I think that:

- At least in my imagination, Warrior is supposed to be a simple class. But as it is, Warrior plays more complex than any of the other tanks, especially with this stupid "can only be done in defensive" / "can only be done in offensive" crap. I think that should be completely removed from the warrior.

- Warriors should have advantages over the other two classes. Other than "having highest dps, but only in offensive mode". Warriors should have highest dps always, at the very least ! And best aggro control. Thats only fair if all three tank types are supposed to have the same defense and the other two types get a big chunk of tools, including healing.

[Cobalty2004]

Originally Posted by Gecon

I think that:

- At least in my imagination, Warrior is supposed to be a simple class. But as it is, Warrior plays more complex than any of the other tanks, especially with this stupid "can only be done in defensive" / "can only be done in offensive" crap. I think that should be completely removed from the warrior.

- Warriors should have advantages over the other two classes. Other than "having highest dps, but only in offensive mode". Warriors should have highest dps always, at the very least ! And best aggro control. Thats only fair if all three tank types are supposed to have the same defense and the other two types get a big chunk of tools, including healing.

Agreed

[Najarati]

All I can say is when I finish up my T5 suit of armor I better be able to solo 4 and 5-dots left and right because based on this forum you'd think paladins were this god-like soloist. Not that I'd really care, I never rolled a paladin to solo in the first place. By all means, give warriors something to help them solo if that's what they want so badly, but good Lord stop trying to use it as some sort of justification to be better at the job upon which the entire archetype is based--tanking (and that includes aggro management).

I'm grouped with a warrior almost every night and he does just fine. I'm often selected to tank due to efficiency, he'll do far more damage than I'll ever do assisting, but it has nothing to do with any lack of ability on his part. It also affords him a break from tanking so he can use his shiny new 90+ dps greatsword. When he does tank, though, he does fine. He also gets hit less often due to having a higher natural block rate (thank you "paladins are more defensive and therefore have less defense" developer logic).

In general, he seems to have stronger aggo, but I have better recovery. Groups of mobs don't seem to break from him as often, but when they do it can be a bit dicey getting them back. Groups of mobs (except the one I'm focused upon) seem to break from me a little more often, but I've an easier time getting them back on me through rescues and Shining Beacon.

As far as our guild's cleric is concerned, from his observations he's noticed that I'm better at tanking certain mobs than others and likewise for the warrior. As for the warrior and myself, neither of us solo. We've been 50 for some time and there hasn't been a need; heck, I rarely solo'd even before 50 because it was so God-aweful slow and inefficient. Grouping is the way to go.