[VoiceOfReason]

Two private beta patches containingfixes for Vista have been leaked to the public. Word has it that they are destined for public beta pretty soon (and SP1 eventually), but you can find these out on the web now if you are lucky. I installed them on my system and Vanguard has never been more stable for me. I crashed just once in 8 hours of play. Here are the details:

938194 Vista Compatibility and Reliability Pack
This update resolves a number of individual issues which may be affecting some computers running Windows Vista. These issues have been reported by customers using the Error Reporting service, product support, or other means. Installing this update will improve the reliability and hardware compatibility of Windows Vista in a variety of scenarios. Some examples of the improvements contained in this update are:
Improved reliability and compatibility of Vista when used with newer graphics cards in several specific scenarios and configurations.
Improved reliability when working with external displays on a laptop.
Increased compatibility with many video drivers.
Improved visual appearance of games with high intensity graphics.
Improved quality of playback for HD-DVD and Blue-Ray disks on large monitors.
Improved reliability for Internet Explorer when some third party toolbars are installed on Vista.
Improved Vista reliability in networking configuration scenarios.
Improved the reliability of Windows Calendar in Vista.
Improved reliability of systems that were upgraded from XP to Vista.
Increased compatibility with many printer drivers.
Increased reliability and performance of Vista when entering sleep and resuming from sleep.

938979 Vista Performance and Reliability Pack
This update resolves a number of individual issues which may be affecting some computers running Windows Vista. These issues have been reported by customers using the Error Reporting service, product support, or other means. Installing this update will improve the performance and responsiveness for some scenarios and improves reliability of Windows Vista in a variety of scenarios. Some examples of the improvements contained in this update are:
Improves performance in resuming back to the desktop from the Photo and Windows Energy screensaver.
Resolves an issue where some secured web pages using advanced security technologies may not get displayed in Internet Explorer on Windows Vista.
Resolves an issue where a shared printer may not get installed if the printer is connected to a Windows XP or Windows Server 2003 system and User Access Control is disabled on the Vista client.
Resolves an issue where creating AVI files on Vista may get corrupted.
Improves the performance in calculating the ‘estimated time remaining’ when copying/moving large files.
Improves performance in bringing up Login Screen after resuming from Hibernate.
Resolves an issue where synchronization of offline files to a server can get corrupted.
Resolves a compatibility issue with RAW images created by Canon EOS 1D/1DS Digital SLR Camera which can lead to data loss. This only affects RAW images created by these two specific camera models.
Resolves an issue where a computer can lose its default Gateway address when resuming from sleep mode.
Improves the performance when copying or moving entire directories containing large amounts of data or files.
Improves the performance of Vista’s Memory Manager in specific customer scenarios and prevents some issues which may lead to memory corruption.

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason

I installed them on my system and Vanguard has never been more stable for me.

While that's a good thing, I don't think peeps should need to run out and change their OS to compensate for poor game code.

[VoiceOfReason]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

While that's a good thing, I don't think peeps should need to run out and change their OS to compensate for poor game code.

rabbit, I agree that there are still bugs in the game code and some of the code is just brain-dead (the chunking code is horrid). However, the fact that these patches exist, and my improved experience after having installed them, seems to attest that much of the problematic gameplay the people have experienced on Vista, is DUE to Vista - or was.

Why do you (and others) always have to spin just about every post to the negative? Sheesh, give it a rest. You folks have had reason to gripe and be disgruntled - several of them in fact. However, it's a new company at the helm, and this game is fun and gorgeous ... and getting more playable as time goes by. I'd like to see it succeed and I think it will. I wish folks would quit dogpiling on it... the game is far far better than people would think by reading these forums.

[nuandy]

Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason

Two private beta patches containingfixes for Vista have been leaked to the public. Word has it that they are destined for public beta pretty soon (and SP1 eventually), but you can find these out on the web now if you are lucky. I installed them on my system and Vanguard has never been more stable for me. I crashed just once in 8 hours of play. Here are the details:

938194 Vista Compatibility and Reliability Pack
This update resolves a number of individual issues which may be affecting some computers running Windows Vista. These issues have been reported by customers using the Error Reporting service, product support, or other means. Installing this update will improve the reliability and hardware compatibility of Windows Vista in a variety of scenarios. Some examples of the improvements contained in this update are:
Improved reliability and compatibility of Vista when used with newer graphics cards in several specific scenarios and configurations.
Improved reliability when working with external displays on a laptop.
Increased compatibility with many video drivers.
Improved visual appearance of games with high intensity graphics.
Improved quality of playback for HD-DVD and Blue-Ray disks on large monitors.
Improved reliability for Internet Explorer when some third party toolbars are installed on Vista.
Improved Vista reliability in networking configuration scenarios.
Improved the reliability of Windows Calendar in Vista.
Improved reliability of systems that were upgraded from XP to Vista.
Increased compatibility with many printer drivers.
Increased reliability and performance of Vista when entering sleep and resuming from sleep.

938979 Vista Performance and Reliability Pack
This update resolves a number of individual issues which may be affecting some computers running Windows Vista. These issues have been reported by customers using the Error Reporting service, product support, or other means. Installing this update will improve the performance and responsiveness for some scenarios and improves reliability of Windows Vista in a variety of scenarios. Some examples of the improvements contained in this update are:
Improves performance in resuming back to the desktop from the Photo and Windows Energy screensaver.
Resolves an issue where some secured web pages using advanced security technologies may not get displayed in Internet Explorer on Windows Vista.
Resolves an issue where a shared printer may not get installed if the printer is connected to a Windows XP or Windows Server 2003 system and User Access Control is disabled on the Vista client.
Resolves an issue where creating AVI files on Vista may get corrupted.
Improves the performance in calculating the ‘estimated time remaining’ when copying/moving large files.
Improves performance in bringing up Login Screen after resuming from Hibernate.
Resolves an issue where synchronization of offline files to a server can get corrupted.
Resolves a compatibility issue with RAW images created by Canon EOS 1D/1DS Digital SLR Camera which can lead to data loss. This only affects RAW images created by these two specific camera models.
Resolves an issue where a computer can lose its default Gateway address when resuming from sleep mode.
Improves the performance when copying or moving entire directories containing large amounts of data or files.
Improves the performance of Vista’s Memory Manager in specific customer scenarios and prevents some issues which may lead to memory corruption.

i have beta tested for MS for akmost 13 years now and these patchs have been about for a few months now and yes should be public beta by the end of this month

As for downloading them and trying them now i would stay away only download thing like this direct from MS or you are asking for trouble

What makes me laugh is i have a duel boot sytem and still run a verstion of windows 2000 and VG ran better on that than XP or Vista

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason

However, the fact that these patches exist, and my improved experience after having installed them, seems to attest that much of the problematic gameplay the people have experienced on Vista, is DUE to Vista - or was.

True enough I suppose.

Why do you (and others) always have to spin just about every post to the negative? Sheesh, give it a rest.

I'm not spinning anything anywhere. I'm pointing out that a change in the OS fixing gameplay:

1- Is good for players on that OS
2- Is related to the OS
3- Means that nothing was changed on the game side, thus all others who are not on that OS do not receive any benefit

Something like this would be akin to an announcement that there is a new DirectX update for Vista and all games now see a 5% boost. Well, that's great for everyone on Vista, but it doesn't mean that anything in the games themselves were changed/improved. If the problem is in the OS, then that kind of improvement/change is fine. But, in the case of VG, we know it is primarily in how the code handles certain tasks, and any problems with OSs are specific to each OS.

I'm not "spinning" anything. I'm merely pointing out that the game code wasn't changed, and thus, while this may offer a go-around solution for Vista users, it doesn't solve the problem for anyone who isn't on Vista.

[Kurron Nye]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

True enough I suppose.



I'm not spinning anything anywhere. I'm pointing out that a change in the OS fixing gameplay:

1- Is good for players on that OS
2- Is related to the OS
3- Means that nothing was changed on the game side, thus all others who are not on that OS do not receive any benefit

Something like this would be akin to an announcement that there is a new DirectX update for Vista and all games now see a 5% boost. Well, that's great for everyone on Vista, but it doesn't mean that anything in the games themselves were changed/improved. If the problem is in the OS, then that kind of improvement/change is fine. But, in the case of VG, we know it is primarily in how the code handles certain tasks, and any problems with OSs are specific to each OS.

I'm not "spinning" anything. I'm merely pointing out that the game code wasn't changed, and thus, while this may offer a go-around solution for Vista users, it doesn't solve the problem for anyone who isn't on Vista.

Perhaps he is viewing it as an anti-Vista bias? Otherwise, yes, it would be foolish to run out and upgrade Vista based on this update alone as there are a lot more considerations involved with O/S upgrades.

Fact is we are likely to see few changes in the current crop of games to fix all Vista issues as the typical game developer (MMO publishers not withstanding) almost never revisit the code of already published games to enhance their O/S compatibility.

The only way they will change their game code if if it seems like whatever issues will slow sales of their game, and given the low adoption rate of Vista thusfar, game publishers are in no hurry to spend funds to alter their code to get better Vista compatibility.

They simply fob the responsibility off on Microsoft who has more to gain by making the O/S work better with the games (since MS wants wider adoption of their new O/S.)

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by Kurron Nye

Perhaps he is viewing it as an anti-Vista bias?

Nope.

I'm anti-'this game's problems are resolved if you go out and spend ~$x on this new item'. You should not have to buy new hardware or software to compensate for game code shortcomings. The company that made the game should fix the code, not someone else.

Now, the OP didn't say you should do that, but since many people are looking for any kind of improvement in VG's performance, some may take it as such. I'm not faulting anyone for pointing to this improvement, I'm simply pointing out the fact that making such a change doesn't really solve the true problem - that being the Sigil base code for VG isn't up to where it should be.

and given the low adoption rate of Vista thusfar

While it is unknown how many copies have been purchased, 60 million copies have been shipped. Even if only 50% of those sold through, that's 30 million copies. I wouldn't exactly say that is a slow adoption rate considering it's only been avaliable for purchase around 9 months. Even if you further reduce that to 25% being gamers, that's still 7.5 million gamers with Vista.

How many of those play Vanguard? Probably not a whole lot. I'd say the reports I see on sites, not just here, is probably closer to 4:1 in terms of people not on Vista to those on Vista.

[Kurron Nye]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

Nope.

I'm anti-'this game's problems are resolved if you go out and spend ~$x on this new item'. You should not have to buy new hardware or software to compensate for game code shortcomings. The company that made the game should fix the code, not someone else.

Now, the OP didn't say you should do that, but since many people are looking for any kind of improvement in VG's performance, some may take it as such. I'm not faulting anyone for pointing to this improvement, I'm simply pointing out the fact that making such a change doesn't really solve the true problem - that being the Sigil base code for VG isn't up to where it should be.



While it is unknown how many copies have been purchased, 60 million copies have been shipped. Even if only 50% of those sold through, that's 30 million copies. I wouldn't exactly say that is a slow adoption rate considering it's only been avaliable for purchase around 9 months. Even if you further reduce that to 25% being gamers, that's still 7.5 million gamers with Vista.

How many of those play Vanguard? Probably not a whole lot. I'd say the reports I see on sites, not just here, is probably closer to 4:1 in terms of people not on Vista to those on Vista.

60 million copies shipped DOES NOT = 60 million copies sold to end users. The bulk of those copies are OEM copies shipped off to PC manufacturers, whose PCs are waiting to be sold. That is where most of the Vista adoption is coming from, new PC sales, not from existing XP users running out and upgrading.

Yup, Vista adoption by new PC buyers is really high, especially since they do not have any other alternative.

The real tale is told by # of Vista upgrade editions and/or standalone copies sold at retail level.

Yes it all adds up to eventual, universal adoption, but the rate of adoption is not all that fast amongst existing PC owners. (its just plain expensive, and for dubious at best benefits). The XP users mostly wont move until they are forced to.

[Slide]

Originally Posted by Kurron Nye

60 million copies shipped DOES NOT = 60 million copies sold to end users. The bulk of those copies are OEM copies shipped off to PC manufacturers, whose PCs are waiting to be sold. That is where most of the Vista adoption is coming from, new PC sales, not from existing XP users running out and upgrading.

Yup, Vista adoption by new PC buyers is really high, especially since they do not have any other alternative.

The real tale is told by # of Vista upgrade editions and/or standalone copies sold at retail level.

Yes it all adds up to eventual, universal adoption, but the rate of adoption is not all that fast amongst existing PC owners. (its just plain expensive, and for dubious at best benefits). The XP users mostly wont move until they are forced to.

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

Latest results are:

Windows XP 986,985 90.33 %
Windows Vista 87,269 7.99 %
Windows 2000 9,342 0.85 %
Windows 2003 64 bit 8,074 0.74 %
Other 1,015 0.09 %