[TheSteelValley]

I need some advice. I can't start my own thread yet so..... I'm in the very beginning of my new build. So far I have the Asus P5K3 Deluxe Intel Socket 775 Mobo: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?Sku=A455-2374

My case is a gigantic Thermaltake Kandalf: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/15...tml?tl=c7s28b1

I'm probably gonna get the Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU, and definitely a 750W PSU.

Other than that I haven't decided what else I want to put in it. I'm shooting for a somewhat higher end machine but I don't want to go too crazy, spending wise. TIA for any ideas.

[rabb1t]

There ya go. New thread action.

First thing... I get a "this item is no longer available" notice on that link. Got the specs from NewEgg.

Examining your choices... here is my thing with that...

That board is using DDR3, which is really horrifically expensive right now, and no better than DDR2. Checking NewEgg you are looking at $350 for a low cost 2 gig DDR3 kit. This leads to my next point, due to your core choice. Right now quad core isn't a benefit over dual core with games. Yes, soon, in maybe the next 6 months to a year it may be a decent benefit, but right now, today, it isn't. By the time we are looking at a year to a year and a half from now, there will be much cheaper DDR3 out there, as well as boards that will very likely support much faster DDR3 speeds.

This leads me to the question of - why do you want a DDR3 quad core system right now?

Which leads me to the second question of - would you object to having a dual core system with DDR2, since DDR3 and quad core is not currently a benefit, and then upgrading the core again in say 1.5 years when those technologies are moving into mainstream?

I would recommend, and mind you I have no idea what you'll be using the system for exactly...

Intel E6550 $178
Corsair 2 gig DDR2-800 kit $70 post rebate - 5-5-5-12 timed
Evga 122-CK-NF68-A1 $190 post rebate

Total = 438

Instead of...

Intel Q6600 $290
Corsair 2 gig DDR3-1333 $390 - 9-9-9-24 timed
Asus P5K3 Deluxe $247

Total = 927

Here is why...

As above, DDR3 isn't faster than DDR2 right now due to slower speeds and poor timing. By the time they are produced mainstream they should be quite a bit better. Also, by the time they are mainstream, PCI express v2 should be on the motherboard as well.

Also, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from upgrading in stages. Say you go with my recommended build there. You can then change over to quad core in a year, sell the E6550. Say 6 months or even a year after that you can move onto a DDR3 / PCIe v2 motherboard and get the ram to go with it.

Although, you did choose a crossfire board, and the board I chose was Nvidia based. I don't know if you have an ATi GPU in mind, or want to run Crossfire, or any other reasons you chose, but... that's what I'd recommend. I'd say go mainstream now, make 'more' smaller steps in terms of moving towards quad core, 4 gig DDR3 and PCIe v2. I don't think jumping right on those are a good idea right now due to it being a bit too new and a bit too expensive. Note that "today", in all but maybe 1 or 2 games, there would be zero difference between those two builds in performance, yet you can see that the second build is more than twice the cost.

I'd recommend something like my Gorgon system and upgrading as time goes on.

[TheSteelValley]

TYVM Rabb1t.

[evilsofa]

First, building a DDR3 system is going to be very expensive (as rabb1t notes), very difficult (the supply of DDR3 is just not there - do NOT try to build a system unless you actually have the DDR3 in hand) and frankly the speed of DDR3 is not very much faster than DDR2 right now.

Second, are you going to be doing more than gaming? If you're just gaming, then quad-core will get you nothing over dual-core. For gaming, get an E6750 which is plenty of CPU power for gaming, unless you're doing 8800s in SLI (which you don't need to do unless you're running 2560x1600 on a 30" screen). You only need quad-core if you have CPU-heavy applications that you KNOW will employ more than two cores.

[TheSteelValley]

As far as the Quad Core goes, I was going to get a Core 2 Duo E6600 originally. Then the price drops came and I figured maybe Quad was the way to go. I'm not opposed to getting Dual Core at all, and after reading your post, I'm glad I didn't get the CPU yet.

Also, I didn't plan on going Crossfire because I didn't want to use that much power atm. Maybe one day, but not any time soon.

[rabb1t]

If you have no preference for Crossfire (ATi) or SLI (Nvidia) I'd recommend considering my or Fozzik's builds. An E6550 should be more than enough power for quite some time, and if you wanted even more power, an E6750 or E6850 would be a great choice.

Yeah, the Q6600 is a great deal if you are talking about non-gaming apps, but for gaming, the support just isn't there right now. We will be eeking into true multi-threaded games around the end of this year, but I'm betting it will be closer to a year or more before more than a few games have any real benefit to it. By that time there will be faster quad cores out there. I say it on my site, I think I said it above, but I really think around the end of the year 2008 will be the time to really consider quad core with 4 gig of DDR3 and PCIe v2. I think much before that and the tech just will be too pricey or not enough of an advantage to consider going with it. Particularly if you aren't shy about changing over a part and selling the "old one" on Ebay.

So... we may want to back up and ask a few questions...

What is your targeted price range? Do you have an 'absolute' hard cap?

What kind of games are you looking to play? FPS? MMORPGs? Strats?

What kind of ... effects levels(?) ... are you looking for in these games? Do you want max effects? Are you ok with some effects on high, some on medium or low?

Do you want high res, like 1920x1200, or mainstream res like 1680x1050?
What kind of monitor were you looking at getting in terms of size or manufacturer?

Are you a "leaper" or do you "ride the wave"?
I still need to do some bla bla on this, heh. Basically what I call a "leaper" is someone who tends to do a complete PC build every 3 or 4 years, while someone who "rides the wave" is comefortable updating a part about every year. They may change their GPU one year, add more ram another year, change the CPU, add on a sound card or hard drive, etc. etc. Basically – do you tend to swap out parts as each part has something better available or do you just wait until several are behind the times then upgrade the entire thing all at once?

What is your experience level with building?
We can probably assume you are comefortable doing whatever, but we should ask just to be sure.

[TheSteelValley]

I almost forgot. The main reason I bought this board was that I planned on a slow build and was looking for a board that wouldn't hold me back in the future, if say, I lost my unreliable job(which I did, and found a better one and quick, so no worries lol). I kind of seen it coming and wanted to have a nice mobo to start from in the event that I had to take a 2-3 month break in my build.

So here's a stupid question. Should I have started my build with the mobo and built around that? I actually bought the case first but always looked at it in terms of building around the mobo.

[TheSteelValley]

Originally Posted by rabb1t

So... we may want to back up and ask a few questions...

What is your targeted price range? Do you have an 'absolute' hard cap?

What kind of games are you looking to play? FPS? MMORPGs? Strats?

What kind of ... effects levels(?) ... are you looking for in these games? Do you want max effects? Are you ok with some effects on high, some on medium or low?

Do you want high res, like 1920x1200, or mainstream res like 1680x1050?
What kind of monitor were you looking at getting in terms of size or manufacturer?

Are you a "leaper" or do you "ride the wave"?
I still need to do some bla bla on this, heh. Basically what I call a "leaper" is someone who tends to do a complete PC build every 3 or 4 years, while someone who "rides the wave" is comefortable updating a part about every year. They may change their GPU one year, add more ram another year, change the CPU, add on a sound card or hard drive, etc. etc. Basically – do you tend to swap out parts as each part has something better available or do you just wait until several are behind the times then upgrade the entire thing all at once?

What is your experience level with building?
We can probably assume you are comefortable doing whatever, but we should ask just to be sure.

I don't have a hard cap per se, but if I had to set one I'd say $2500-$3000 is my range.

I'm mainly going to be playing MMO's, Civ 4(big games that lag me down currently), and the occasional FPS.*edit* By occasional I mean that I'll have one good FPS on my PC at any given time, maybe two but not that I can foresee. Most of my time goes into MMO's and Civ4, but I want to have the capability to play any new release FPS that should come along. *Edit*

As far as level of effects, I like to play my games on the highest effects. Since I use an E-Machine, I can't do that atm. I want good graphics for sure, but not at the expense of my in-game experiences being lagged down or chunking. By no means, though, am I looking to have the absolute best graphics available. 1680x1050 works perfect for me. I'm going to have a 22 inch screen.

My experience level is novice, but I'm pretty comfortable with being inside a PC. I never built a PC for myself but I've swapped a thing or two and helped my dad change things in his PC's. So I'm new to the Ground Up build.

I'd probably say I like to ride the wave because I don't want to completely rebuild in 3-4 years. My plan was to keep my gigantor Thermaltake case(I love the huge case lol) and build something solid to start with and then "Ride the Wave" for as long as I could stretch it.

[rabb1t]

Originally Posted by TheSteelValley

I don't have a hard cap per se, but if I had to set one I'd say $2500-$3000 is my range.

Might want to give my Perseus build a look. $2500 post rebate, which includes everything. Be aware the G9 is out of stock and the redesigned G15 isn't out yet. You may even want to eek the speaker set up to the Logitech Z-5500, ~$235 at ProVantage.

But yeah, any of my middle 3 builds will do you just fine, and probably any of Fozzik's builds will do you just fine. (Be aware that Foz's reqs don't include everything.)

I'm mainly going to be playing MMO's, Civ 4(big games that lag me down currently), and the occasional FPS.*edit*

Any of my middle 3 builds would be great for that, and probably any of Fozzik's recommendations. Having a 1920x1200 monitor would really enhance things though. Either the 8800 GTS w/640 meg or the 8800 GTX would be fine for that. I'd say just following the Perseus build recommendations would get you a lot of power now, and carry you very solidly for several years. A GPU running at 1920x1200 will "show it's age" faster than running at 1680x1050, but I'm sure an 8800 GTX will hold up very well for quite some time.

but I want to have the capability to play any new release FPS that should come along.

Going with a more conservative 1680x1050 res screen would give you a touch more flexibility in that regard, but I think something like the Perseus build should do just fine for mmm... I'd say about 1.5 years once DX10 heavy games start to show up. These early ones like BioShock and Crysis that just use a few DX10 effects should be no problem.

If you really want to wow yourself I'd highly recommend going with the 24" Acer at 1920x1200.

1680x1050 works perfect for me. I'm going to have a 22 inch screen.

Then you can take my recs from the Gorgon or the Perseus for the GPU and monitor. Either or.

So I'm new to the Ground Up build.

If you go with a complete build you'd still have 'this PC' to ask for help on. You should be fine.

My plan was to keep my gigantor Thermaltake case(I love the huge case lol) and build something solid to start with and then "Ride the Wave" for as long as I could stretch it.

With that much to spend, if you went with Perseus you really wouldn't have to change anything but the GPU in less than probably 3 years, depending on how much of an advantage quad core shows to be in gaming. I'd say the only thing you'd want to change anytime soon would be move to a series 9 GPU once they come out, as true DX10 effects seem to be taking quite a bit more power than people originally estimated. You'd want to move to 4 gig as well, but I don't think you need to worry about that for at least a year. Games have to be coded to take advantage of higher ram amounts and right now there just aren't any games out there at all that I know of that show any benefit with more than 2 gig.

Quad core... mmm tough to say. We really don't know how quick really well multi-threaded games will be coming out. We do have to remember that most of the ones currently in the works have been referenced as not splitting the games into a whole lot of threads, so there should be some improvement, but I don't expect it would be huge. We'll see, and if you are confident in your abilities changing to a quad core from the core you build with is really only a matter of time. (I've done a core change in less than 2 hours, which included removing the motherboard from the case to be sure I had good positioning and leverage. Someone not used to it may take closer to 3 or so though.) Even if you only had the CPU a year you could very easily sell it on Ebay for probably 75% or more of it's current retail value and pay off a huge portion of the quad core.