[xiudin]

Originally Posted by MagicNumbers

I don't understand what you mean by answering the question. Who is saying that there is a shortage of medical care providers? As in, what study or important credible person says that that is the most important issue when talking about health care?


I am not claiming there is a shortage in medical care providers. I am asking if health care is a right, and if a shortage of medical worlers arises, then how do we deal with the shortage?

What are the negative ramifications of universal health care?

Less competition leading to more inefficiency, rationing of care, slower progress on new medicines and techniques are all possible effects of a universal health care system.

What are the ramifications of the Senate Finance Committee draft bill released today?

I don't know.

What are the ramifications of continued free market, for profit health care?

One of the big problems with our current system is that we have removed market forces from the process. We should be able to buy insurance across state lines. We should be able to buy insurance policies that only cover the procedures and medicines we desire. Small businesses should be able to pool resources to buy insurance if they so desire.

[Talithia]

Originally Posted by Loampounder

Basically, I am hearing that if I work, I can get what I need but if I don't work, I can get what I need. Some part of that is not functional.

So it is your thought that most Americans don't work out of choice?

[MagicNumbers]

Originally Posted by xiudin

I am not claiming there is a shortage in medical care providers. I am asking if health care is a right, and if a shortage of medical worlers arises, then how do we deal with the shortage?

Again, why would there be a shortage of medial care workers? Is this something that someone did a study on? Are there a lack of people going to school to be a medic, nurse, or doctor? In other words, is this a legitimate concern or is it a 'what if' fantasy?

One of the big problems with our current system is that we have removed market forces from the process. We should be able to buy insurance across state lines. We should be able to buy insurance policies that only cover the procedures and medicines we desire. Small businesses should be able to pool resources to buy insurance if they so desire.

What processes are you referring to?

Procedures and medicines you desire? What does that mean? Can you see into the future? Will you know before hand if you're going to get hit with ALS, or MS, or anything else for that matter?

Small businesses already do pool their money together to negotiate cheaper insurance. It's called a co-op and there are lots of them.

You're missing some of the other regular talking points.

[Loampounder]

Originally Posted by Talithia

So it is your thought that most Americans don't work out of choice?

You are trying to avoid my point with a strawman argument. I never said most Americans and I never said that the current state would allow this.

I worry about the progression. One in five residents of Los Angeles county receives some form of government assistance. In past eras, these people would move to find jobs, live with family or take any job they could. Instead, they don't have to because the government will provide. It's an ongoing trend that will only be exacerbated by government-issued healthcare to more people.

I'm all for reforming the system, but let's not jump to the most extreme solution.

[MagicNumbers]

Originally Posted by Loampounder

I'm all for reforming the system, but let's not jump to the most extreme solution.

That's not an argument against anything.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Originally Posted by Loampounder

I'm all for reforming the system, but let's not jump to the most extreme solution.

There is nothing extreme about a single-payer health care system that has been implemented and working in dozens of countries for several decades. Not only would a single payer system be the most practical solution; it would be the cheapest solution as well. The USA currently spends about 15% of it's GDP on health care compared to countries like Canada, Sweden, France, etc. that only spend about only about 10% on health care. The health care in those countries is not only significantly cheaper; it covers everyone from they day they are born to the day that they die with free choice of doctors and hospitals. In the United States of America 50 million people are uninsured, another 50 million are underinsured, many of the rest who are insured often get hit with exceptions and exclusions forcing the patient to foot the bill.

If you want to save money for workers in the USA, pass single payer. If you want to fix heathcare in the country so that everyone is insured, pass single payer. If you want to save the auto industry, pass single payer. It's the only solution that makes sense and the only one that was left "off-the-table" by the senate finance committee; and it's only off the table because the Democrats such as Senator Baucus are too beholden to the interests of insurance industry crooks.

Let's stop the madness and pass single-payer now!

[Loampounder]

Originally Posted by Arctic_Slicer

There is nothing extreme about a single-payer health care system that has been implemented and working in dozens of countries for several decades.
...
If you want to save money for workers in the USA, pass single payer.

Yes, it's extreme compared to the current system in the US. Reform the insurance companies and the healthcare business to encourage competition and also regulate to make sure that companies deal with the needs of their customers properly. That may eventually evolve into a different institution, but shouldn't we try to make the direct corrections before we go all the way to entirely changing how our country does business in healthcare?

Save money by going to a single payer system? You really mean hide the cost and pass it onto the taxpayers. Pensions are a bigger impact on auto companies much more than healthcare. Everyone will be covered? Oh, that will be expensive. Who do you think pays that bill?

[Slide]

Good riddance to that terrorist sympathising ****.

[MagicNumbers]

Let me guess...

You're not in the IRA.

[Slide]

Originally Posted by MagicNumbers

Let me guess...

You're not in the IRA.

Well guessed.