[ikaoma420]

Originally Posted by Dragon-RD

Vanguard now is about as good and as hardcore as british porn. Trust me I'm british but our porn is phail.

Do the chicks ever lose their teeth when giving BJs?

[Dragon-RD]

Hell yeah its just not the same without.

[Amsra]

Originally Posted by ikaoma420

The sad thing is now days there are literally only a handful of those players. I think the "New Hopers" would lose their shit if they went back and traced the true history of this game and all the lies the playerbase has been told starting with the Joodah siggy of "Vanguard won't change and will remain SOEs Hardcore game" (or something along those lines) and what like 2 weeks later EX curve reduced.

I love how some people on the forum think this will be a good thing for Vanguard to go in a more casual direction. They tried that for the first 2 years of the game and it didn't do shit to increase the population.

I totally agree with you Loam about the fact that this reeks of been there done this. The handful of new players will be in for a rude awakening in 6 months time when 1 content patch has been released.

It really is sad how delusional the people are who are putting a positive spin on this are.... I mean really, the lies and broken promises are all on record.

[Thojorkill]

Loam, you still pounding the drum? I gave the **** up. Good to see some of the old cantankerous bastards alive though.

[Loampounder]

Originally Posted by Thojorkill

Loam, you still pounding the drum? I gave the **** up. Good to see some of the old cantankerous bastards alive though.

LOL, it's a nice forum to visit for a rant, especially since the topic is so involved. I'm much more involved in my old EQ forum discussions. I was involved with the VG community for three years before release, so it fades slowly.

[perfect]

Didn't we just go over this? Really, gang, come on.

This is about the server merge, lack of in-game content.

This is NOT about how people will react to the news and it's not for harassment of people.

Get it together.

[dabble]

Apologies perfect. It did seem like the thread was intended to be about player reactions with the OP offering up a sarcastic "Rejoice"

[Loampounder]

Harassment is always wrong, but we cannot discuss the community of a forum-specific MMO?

A week later and there is still no further information or clarification by the developers. Yes, there was the Christmas holiday but even then it's strange to announce a server merger and a change in direction of the game and not to have some feedback.

[VoiceOfReason]

VG was insurance for SOE. If it took off like crazy, they would win. If it didn't, they could control it and make sure it never offered effective competition to EQ2. While it winds down, they recoup their initial - probably rather paltry - investment.

The above synopsis is rather cynical and paints a picture of an effective SOE. It is also possible that they simply are truly without clue, there was no plan and they just morphed and degraded things as usual.

Either way, the end result is the same. What could have been a really really great game is relegated to the scrap heap.

[Fozzik]

"Scrap heap" is actually a really apt name for SOE's stable of games. Vanguard's been in the "scrap heap" for several years now.

[Nepenthia]

Originally Posted by Fozzik

"Scrap heap" is actually a really apt name for SOE's stable of games. Vanguard's been in the "scrap heap" for several years now.

And VG is a very fun part of the scrap heap indeed Foz!!! Well if you like Vanguard ... and I do.

Grin, couldn't resist. Yes, I'm still playing. Am I sad about SOE's treatment of VG. Yep, but it was evident from the day they named Terazzos as producer that they were not serious about building VG into a top game. That was my "tear my hair out day". Since then, bad news after bad news, which, if I ignore it, doesn't interfere with me having fun with friends in Telon.

The time to leave will come soon enough I'm sure ... particularly if Heroes of Telara turns into a game that has at least as sophisticated game mechanics as VG. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath, but am definitely going to see what happens there.

It's always nice to hope that somehow Telon would get some renewed attention and development. I don't have that hope any more, but when it's time to close the door on Vanguard, I'll still be very grateful for the fun I had and the people I met.

Nep

[Fozzik]

One cannot help but admire your resilient and ever-optimistic spirit, m'lady.

Sadly, the outcome being a forgone conclusion and the constant nagging in my mind of what should and could have been have never allowed me to enjoy any part of the game that ended up carrying the name Vanguard. My loss I suppose, although it's really only the people...not any part of the game...that I regret missing.

[VoiceOfReason]

Originally Posted by Nepenthia

And VG is a very fun part of the scrap heap indeed Foz!!! Well if you like Vanguard ... and I do.

Grin, couldn't resist. Yes, I'm still playing. Am I sad about SOE's treatment of VG. Yep, but it was evident from the day they named Terazzos as producer that they were not serious about building VG into a top game. That was my "tear my hair out day". Since then, bad news after bad news, which, if I ignore it, doesn't interfere with me having fun with friends in Telon.

The time to leave will come soon enough I'm sure ... particularly if Heroes of Telara turns into a game that has at least as sophisticated game mechanics as VG. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath, but am definitely going to see what happens there.

It's always nice to hope that somehow Telon would get some renewed attention and development. I don't have that hope any more, but when it's time to close the door on Vanguard, I'll still be very grateful for the fun I had and the people I met.

Nep

Good for you.

I felt the same way for a long time until the "new" post 50 stuff basically canceled my play style. I'd probably still be eeking along had that patch been different. As it is, I tried LOTRO for a while but it was a lukewarm affection. Champions Online was another dalliance that just did not cut it. Currently I am playing Shards of Dalaya - a morphed EQ1 emulation - and having a ball. I am also looking forward to HoT... I hope they don't ruin it for me with some oppressive PVP implementation. We'll see. Anyway, take care and keep having fun with VG as long as you can.

[Nepenthia]

Originally Posted by Fozzik

One cannot help but admire your resilient and ever-optimistic spirit, m'lady.

Sadly, the outcome being a forgone conclusion and the constant nagging in my mind of what should and could have been have never allowed me to enjoy any part of the game that ended up carrying the name Vanguard. My loss I suppose, although it's really only the people...not any part of the game...that I regret missing.

What could have been .... nods, agreed. The imagination was there, the heart was there, the knowledge of game mechanics was there .... unfortunately the shadow side of game making was there too. I can understand why you and others could not enjoy VG. I'm glad I could but there is always going to be that bittersweet "might have been".

Nep

[Nepenthia]

Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason

Good for you.

I felt the same way for a long time until the "new" post 50 stuff basically canceled my play style. I'd probably still be eeking along had that patch been different. As it is, I tried LOTRO for a while but it was a lukewarm affection. Champions Online was another dalliance that just did not cut it. Currently I am playing Shards of Dalaya - a morphed EQ1 emulation - and having a ball. I am also looking forward to HoT... I hope they don't ruin it for me with some oppressive PVP implementation. We'll see. Anyway, take care and keep having fun with VG as long as you can.

Totally agreed on the oppressive PVP implementation. That does worry me. I can understand why people are still clamoring for a good pvp or rvr game but there are two aspects of pvp and rvr that still bug me and make it so I've never found a pvp game that I wanted to play.

The first is this: my personal experience (which is limited in pvp because I like pve) has been that pvp/rvr gameworld environments have felt unpleasant and negative, even on the "good" side. I would like a world in which there were places that felt great .... beautiful, positive, even funny ... and then there'd be places where the adrenaline would run, you'd feel scared sh**less and winning, when it happened, would be a great feeling.

The second is this: It seems like pvp environments attract those who engage in making other people's playtime miserable ... whether by ganking or cheating or other kinds of ingame abuse. This, I've heard people exclaim is what gaming should be about and some games have come out to attract players that enjoy that kind of environment. I'm just hoping for one that does not!

Of course, these are generalities about pvp worlds but it is true that for me, a world that is unceasingly negative and oppressive is not a world I want to spend time in.

Nep

[ikaoma420]

Its gotten to the point that the new people to the game think that bugs will be fixed. Imagine their surprise when they find out the stair bug cant be fixed because they don't have a graphics programmer on the team.

I'm amazed anyone is falling for the what is this now 3rd round of bug fixes? Are they gonna set up a poll again to decide what are the main bugs that need to e fixed only to remind people that they cant be?

[Dragon-RD]

Chances are ikaoma they will do a poll but only include bugs they think they have a 80% chance of fixing.

I'm also amazed that people are falling for this and I honestly don't see the point of trying to support the game. Whilst that may sound as if I'm being pessimistic I do believe it'll only effect SoE negatively in the long run when the players either quit and spread the word about the lack of support / state of the game or they close it down.

The reasonable step for them to take is to just give out a EQ2: Rise of K(something or other) starter pack to all those subscribing for 3-6 months and give those who subbed for 1 month a part if not full refund. That way while i imagine they would get some hate from hardcore Vanguard fans such as that Beau, at least they have given something back to the subscribers. I'm not the worlds biggest EQ2 fan but it seems like thats SoEs focus so it makes sense ~ or at least does to me.

[Loampounder]

Two weeks and no response from SOE on the official boards. Nothing about "possible" merger, nothing about how housing will work, no discussion of which servers, etc.

Originally Posted by Dragon-RD

I'm also amazed that people are falling for this and I honestly don't see the point of trying to support the game. Whilst that may sound as if I'm being pessimistic I do believe it'll only effect SoE negatively in the long run when the players either quit and spread the word about the lack of support / state of the game or they close it down.

I agree that it's strange that people are falling for this new story (bugs...) but as I said I think they are relying on the fact that new customers will buy old lies. I don't understand why SOE tried this tack - if it's simply about costs, they should try the third option between crappy support and shutting it down - announce a stasis in the game. When they make new content, they put in new bugs, some big. They have proven that they cannot use their existing support to create anything meaningful in the game (had months to build AA and HOSS only to yield nothing) so why not leave the game alone? It's a good game and with the current population, I think more people leave over changes than stay for "new content".

It has a lot of content all ready and some great classes, so why not just keep it alive without planning for new content, new bug fixes, etc. Instead of saying "new focus on bugs, new storylines, revamped existing content, etc." why not just announce that the game is complete and let people enjoy it until they leave? I think modern games demand (wrongly) to swim or die mentality. Why can't games just have a lifetime of their own? I know it needs a minimum population but there is a lot of die-hard VG fans than just want to hunt and explore with friends. If SOE cannot/will not support it, just be frank with the community and let people enjoy it as it is.

[Amsra]

Originally Posted by Dragon-RD

Chances are ikaoma they will do a poll but only include bugs they think they have a 80% chance of fixing.

I'm also amazed that people are falling for this and I honestly don't see the point of trying to support the game. Whilst that may sound as if I'm being pessimistic I do believe it'll only effect SoE negatively in the long run when the players either quit and spread the word about the lack of support / state of the game or they close it down.

The reasonable step for them to take is to just give out a EQ2: Rise of K(something or other) starter pack to all those subscribing for 3-6 months and give those who subbed for 1 month a part if not full refund. That way while i imagine they would get some hate from hardcore Vanguard fans such as that Beau, at least they have given something back to the subscribers. I'm not the worlds biggest EQ2 fan but it seems like thats SoEs focus so it makes sense ~ or at least does to me.

I agree with you that VG is a failed game at this point.....there really is no point in players trying to support it anymore. And given the track record of the minimal dev team that is left, I seriously doubt that any but very minor bugs will ever be fixed. As to monthly small content updates.... dream on

Oh and I don't honestly think Beau is really that much of a dedicated VG player.....he just likes attention

What gets me is SOE's attitude.... I am seeing lots of people now saying that they will never give SOE money again due to their treatment of VG. Granted, lots of them are probably just venting, but I am sure that a good many, just like me, mean it. When I quit VG, I swore to never give them money ever again.....they ruined EQ, SWG and VG for me, they will never again get even a penny from me. And they haven't gotten any money from me since.... I even cut my gf off of EQ, which she still was somewhat playing at the time.

Why can't SOE's management see that they are turning off hard core, long term MMO players by their treatment of not just the games but of the customers themselves. It seems to me that the real bread and butter of an MMO's sub base are those folks who commit themselves for years to a game, not the flash in the pan month or two subs.... They have turned so many people off of them now, they will never recover the premier position they were once in.

My 2cp

[Nepenthia]

Last year, SOE was very clear that they were headed toward free-to-play games with money being made from micro-transactions. At least there were a number of media articles saying that and quoting Smed. There was even a comment, if I remember it correctly, from Smedley saying that they did not think subscription model mmogs would survive.

This past week on Massively, there were comments by game cognoscenti about what they were anticipating would happen in the future and one of the interviewees said that ftp games were not the money-makers anticipated ... whether because there are now so many of them available via FB and other socialnetworking sites ... or whether because retention was an issue.

So I guess what we'll see happen is either subscription based games which often retain a loyal following for years (and a decade if you look at UO and EQ), will regain enough popularity for adequate development funding.

If they do and future mmogs overcome the disappointments of the past couple of years, it will also be interesting to see if people purchase games based on experience with a given company or whether they will rely solely on game descriptions and information.

If Amsra is correct, it may well be that a more experienced and sophisticated mmog community will view offerings by SOE with sincere skepticism. I remember back in the early days of EQ when the atmosphere of reasonable honesty and upfront communication with the players changed abruptly after the reacquisition of EQ by SOE. Since then, SOE has not been known for honesty or follow-through on its promises. Instead it has acquired a reputation for lying to its customers, development management subject to behind-the-scenes in-house politics, and a dearth of successful original subscription based mmogs released or in development (I don't know if Free Realms is still considered to be successful or not).

At least, even with all the known issues with the game engine, coding bugs, poor management, etc. by Sigil, Vanguard stands as an original world with sophisticated gameplay. It's too bad that SOE has continued to treat the game as an unwelcome visitor to its gamelist.