[ForestWhitakerEye]

Personally, I'm not worried at all.

We know that in Structured PVP everyone competes at max level with all skills, traits and gear unlocked, so it's impossible to sell advantage in the place where it matters most.

Gear does have a minimum level to use. From everything we know, GW2 isn't a gear based game, that it will be easy to acquire the best statistical gear and then after that you're going for vanity skins. Like you'll get armor from a dungeon, it won't be any better, it'll just look better.

So even for PVE or PVP it's really hard to see how much "Pay to Skip" they can put into the game. It seems like you could only buy yourself being able to skip the time between obtaining level 79 armor and level 80 armor which shouldn't be very long at all.

With transmutation stones in the game, they don't even have to put stats on gear. They could sell skin+stone bundles and then you just transfer the look onto your naturally acquired gear.

I agree that the wording has changed and it's a little too ambiguous for my tastes, but after the GW1 cash shop I'm not concerned. Maybe if GW1 didn't exist I would be.

The funny thing about all this is that what we're all discussing is the wording in a wiki. Yes, it's the official wiki, yes it was updated by an ArenaNet employee. During the massive discussion period I thought about just changing it myself to say something like "Yes there will be a microtransaction shop, it won't be pay to win." and then leaving an editor's note asking ArenaNet to be less ambiguous when they change it in the future. But by that point it was starting to wind down and I decided to just let it go.

[AsheMan]

I read the response from an employee that said they had changed the description to be less ambiguous... Say what? Who is their PR person?

[Fozzik]

Nice to see you over there, Ashe.

I'm guessing the wording probably made sense to that developer because they've all been discussing it one certain way within the company. People often don't realize that they are taking things for granted, like a "loaded" word's definition. It would probably be as clear as day if we were looking at exactly what was in the shop like he is.

[AsheMan]

Like you said, if enough people voice concern in an area where they're likely to see it, then hopefully they will very carefully consider what they put in the cash shop.

[perfect]

Originally Posted by ForestWhitakerEye

...so it's impossible to sell advantage in the place where it matters most....

That's a matter of opinion. I think structured PvP is where it matters least because structured PvP is a joke designed to give Jersey Boys their fix.

It's the WvW stuff that matters most because it will require the efforts of an entire server, not just a full group. And that's where 'advantage' gear/items will cause the most havoc if they are sold for cash.

We'll have to wait and see but, Fozzik, I am not liking you very much right now cause you put these doubts in my head.

[Fozzik]

Sorry. I didn't want to suffer alone.

[mmorpeegee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIjkW6iyXNo

[perfect]

I kept meaning to come here and ask that but I kept getting sucked into mouse or silly ES MMO discussions:

Now that we know we don't get our first Epic Skill until after 30 and until after we complete a 'complicated' quest chain, does that make the free Epic you get from the DD or CE no longer valid? Does it bother you more? What are your feelings on paying cash for an item that no one else can have for 30 levels?

[AsheMan]

I don't like it, but nothing I can really do about it. So after level 30 I can train the same exact skill that they got in their pre-order or just an equivalent skill?

[Fozzik]

Do we know for sure that the skill is usable at level 1? My assumption was that it was just another elite skill in your pool of skills which you couldn't use until you unlock the slot at 30.

[Insatiable]

A stranger's opinion, but I will put it in the mix.

I don't see this detracting from the traditional aspects of the game, including true in-game economy (most of which is based on adventuring and crafted gear/items).

In every game I have played, players could use real money to get what they wanted. There is simply always a way for that to happen. Granted, in most others, it still benefitted the virtual economy. I don't see this being the focus of the GW2 MT market. Being F2P, they have to have continuous income. Most of this will come from content generation (dungeons, expansions, etc.), but supplemented by the goofy crap that many MMO players enjoy (special clothing, emotes, etc.). I have seen this on another MMO I play (City of Heroes/Villains).

The hard part is the MMO market has turned into this impatient, WoW-child environment overwhelmed with players that want instant gratification and fast levelling. The other hard part is so much of this has been done, so how do you become new and fresh?

We are all speculating, so I hope I am right in that I think GW2 will have a nice balance. There is enough of a following from GW1 that a traditional MMO presence will be there, but the F2P and the MT market will attract other players and provide a funding stream for improved content. I personnally don't foresee the MT market eliminating the demand for an in-game market.

The biggest detriment I have seen to the traditional in-game market (and I am ignorant here, but it will be a focus for me during the next beta event) is how easy and fast crafting looks to be. Perhaps this will reduce the 'separation' of classes EQ and Vanguard seemed to have, but if all you have to do is create your own gear and it's really easy, there may be less tendency to buy it.

If PvP and WvW drive this game (I did not have the time to experience this either), how will they manage disparate equipment differences? This killed APB (All Points Bulletin). Equipped players completely smashed the others, people left the game in droves and new developers had to restructure it. I think this is a separate topic, but I see this being more of a success indicator for the game than the MT market.

[perfect]

Originally Posted by AsheMan

I don't like it, but nothing I can really do about it. So after level 30 I can train the same exact skill that they got in their pre-order or just an equivalent skill?

No. Each player has three elite skills that are a combination of class and race. The DD/CE elite is only available to those buying the DD/CE and is not included in any other race/class combo.

Originally Posted by Fozzik

Do we know for sure that the skill is usable at level 1? My assumption was that it was just another elite skill in your pool of skills which you couldn't use until you unlock the slot at 30.

They said it was usable 'at creation' back when they first did the pre-purchases. I'll try to find the quote shortly.

edit: Well, then, never you mind.

When used, the elite skill will summon a Mistfire Wolf to temporarily fight alongside you and your allies. Since it's an elite, it's usable only after level 30.

Originally Posted by Insatiable

...The biggest detriment I have seen to the traditional in-game market (and I am ignorant here, but it will be a focus for me during the next beta event) is how easy and fast crafting looks to be...If PvP and WvW drive this game (I did not have the time to experience this either), how will they manage disparate equipment differences?....

Crafting is easy but a huge money sink. At least to start, you will have to make the decision on whether or not you want to be good at crafting or have all your skills. The first skill book (at 11) is 10s, the last (at 30) is 3g. Every recipe requires an NPC component and they are not cheap (23c for a stack of 10 for the Novice skills).

All arms and armours are buffed up to the same level in WvW. A higher level player will have benefits in the forms of additional gear slots and skills.

Example:
A level 10 chest piece has 10 STR, 20 DEX on it. In WvW, it's buffed to 80 STR, 160 DEX.

A level 40 chest piece has 40 STR, 80 DEX, 20 VIT. In WvW it's buffed to 80 STR, 160 DEX, 40 VIT.

A level 80 chest piece has 80 STR, 160 DEX, 40 VIT, and 5% crit chance. In WvW, it isn't buffed as it's already 80.

You can see that the higher armor has more 'slots' for stats that get buffed.

All that being said, I found that gear disparity meant little or nothing in actual fights. The few 1v1s that I was involved in were against higher level opponents (judging by their gear) and I still won 50% of the time. That might change over time as people learn to play their classes but the stated goal of AN was to minimize gear disparity.

[Fozzik]

As I understand it, the mistfire wolf skill is intended to be like one of the racial skills...basically a reskin of one of the racial elite skills. The racial elites are less powerful than the class elites. Since you can only use one elite skill at a given time, it really offers no advantage, just a bit of visual variety.

I don't really like them selling skills, period, but they did keep it quite tame.