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Old 04-12-2005, 05:02 PM   #1
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Default Exclusive: Cindy Bowens Discusses the Secondary Market

Cindy Bowens, spokeswoman for Sigil Games Online, discusses the secondary market
Exclusive Interview by Raya for Silky Venom

Secondary market merchandising and fan site buyouts have been the topic of great discussion in the Vanguard community in recent weeks. With Sigil Games Online, the creators and developers of the MMO Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, taking a stance against both virtual profiteering and its advertising as far as their Affiliate Fan Site program is concerned, it came as a shock that, of the-then 14 Affiliated Fan Sites of Vanguard, six had sold to IGE, one of the leading secondary market merchants in the industry.

This particular company, according to its own advertising, has a foothold in dozens of other MMOs, such as City of Heroes, EVE Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Lineage II, EverQuest, EverQuest II, and Blizzard's World of Warcraft. Blizzard's latest stance against the secondary market merchandising has gained that company much approval from the gaming public in general and game developers in particular. But before Blizzard, there was Sigil. And Sigil, in the persona of its Community Relations Manager, Cindy Bowens, explains this stance.

Cindy Bowens: Sigil has been very vocal about our feelings on the secondary market and we do not want to support them in any way. We give our Affiliates a lot of support and do all we can to help them build their sites. We try to help drive traffic to them and work closely with them to help build and strengthen the Vanguard community. Fan sites are a very important part of any MMOG community and it has always been our goal to have a great relationship with the sites that support us.

Since we feel that these sites represent us to our own community and the MMOG community in general, we ask that they meet certain guidelines. These include things like regularly updating their site, making sure I have a main point of contact and content and advertising that is acceptable to our target audience (we would not grant Affiliation to a site that was running porn ads, for example).

Since we do not want to support secondary sales in any way, we made the decision some time ago that we do not want to support fan sites that advertise with them. Therefore, sites that carry these types of ads cannot become or remain Affiliates.


There has been a great deal of controversy over secondary market merchandising, what it is and why people oppose it. Some even see it as merely a service that is being provided to the players. We asked Cindy what made secondary market merchandising unacceptable to Sigil.

Cindy Bowens: The biggest factor is the impact they have on the integrity of these games and their economy. Game developers spend years designing every aspect of the world. They are designed to be played in a way that is fair for everyone that logs onto the server.

When you introduce secondary sales, the game is not being played as it was intended. The economy will not have the chance to develop normally. And it can very easily become a game in which having more cash than the other guy can be what makes the difference.

But most detrimental to this industry is the effect these types of companies have on games in which they are “farming.” There are certain MMOGs on the market right now in which entire zones are dominated by groups that are farming items to be sold. Literally hundreds of gamers have told me that they have quit games because they are tired of dealing with these types of situations. And again, as I have said before, I see it as a big problem when your paying customers that are trying to play your game as intended are quitting because companies that are there just to make money are dominating entire areas.

And finally, it seems pretty unfair to me to see companies making such a huge profit from something in which they have made no investment. You know, I see the guys here breaking their necks to make the game fun and enticing. Many of us left other jobs with more secure futures to take a risk on making Vanguard. I think it is safe to say that the people here at Sigil have invested everything we have into this project. But we believe in what we are doing and we believe it will pay off when our game is released. And I would venture to say that’s the case at most game companies.

So I have to say, it irks me that after we have all taken all the risk and done all the work, secondary sales companies then come along to cash in on it all.


To make it crystal clear what was being discussed, we asked Cindy to clarify what a Vanguard Affiliate fan site is and what benefits this fan site reaps as opposed to non-affiliated fan sites.

Cindy Bowens: I try to give our Affiliates all the support I can. They get direct access to the company through me. I am available to help them with features for their sites and to get them any information I can regarding Sigil and Vanguard.

The benefits include getting exclusive features and items from our team (such as interviews and screenshots) and support and advertising on our site for their special events and contests. We invite them to visit us at Sigil when they can and we also include them in as many types of press activities as possible. For example, last October, we brought in all of our Affiliated Site reps to Sigil for our first Community Summit. We will also be meeting with them privately at E3. We also encourage our team to post on their forums and get involved with their sites.

I will work with non-affiliated sites in a limited capacity. But our exclusive content will go to our Affiliates. And as my time gets more and more limited as we approach release, my efforts will be concentrated on the Affiliates and helping them to succeed.


In a trying time of shock and feelings of loss in the Vanguard community, it was clear that the buyouts of Vanguard Affiliate Fan Sites were having a huge impact. We asked Cindy how the buyouts of Vanguard Affiliate Fan Sites affected Sigil in general and her, as the person who had close contact with the members of the various fan sites, in particular.

Cindy Bowens: It’s been a difficult time. We set out to establish very close relationships with our Affiliates. I have spent a lot of time with these folks, online, on the phone and in person. Many of them have visited our offices more than once. So some personal friendships developed along the way. We had opened our doors to people in whom we had placed a great amount of trust. And while we understand the decisions of many people to sell, it means we can no longer have the relationship we have enjoyed before. And that part is still upsetting to me. I was looking forward to working with these people for many years and I am disappointed about that.

At first, it was all a real nightmare for me. It took me days and days to sort out who had sold and who was still deciding. Then there were the dozens of people that were on staff with sites that sold. They were then faced with the decision of whether to stay with a site they felt they could no longer support or find a new home. I think I was online or on the phone with people for about 2 weeks straight! It was a trying time for all of us and I appreciate the support and patience of everyone involved.

But once the dust started to settle, it became apparent that this community is still strong. Silky Venom and The Last Fanboy are two new Affiliates. These sites were both launched by people in the community that have experience working on other Vanguard sites, including some of the sites that were sold. I was touched to see how quickly these two teams organized themselves and committed to building sites that would help to grow and strengthen the community.

I have also received numerous requests from other sites wishing to become Affiliates. I will be working with many of them over the next few months to help them get established.

So it has been a rough time for the Vanguard Community, no doubt about that. But I think that it has also helped to strengthen us. I am very appreciative of the support and the encouragement from everyone.


Again, we asked for clarification on what exactly it meant to be a Vanguard Affiliate Fan Site who had been bought out by secondary market purveyors. Would these fan sites be dropped from the Vanguard Affiliate Program?

Cindy Bowens: Yes. The sites that were purchased no longer have links anywhere from the Sigil or Vanguard site. Again, we don’t want to support the secondary market in any way. So supporting sites that are owned by them is not something we feel we can do at all.

We wanted to know whether or not there would be any action taken regarding fan sites that are still owned by their original owners but are advertising secondary market items for sale on their site.

Cindy Bowens: At this time, we will still list these sites under Other Sites. But as long as a site is advertising with or supporting the secondary sales market, they will not be given Affiliate status.

We asked how Sigil decided whom they could trust and what measures, if any, they were adding to the Vanguard Affiliate Fan Site application to help build that trust.

Cindy Bowens: Well, I still think the Affiliate Fan Site program we have now is worth the time and effort. We have a lot of new sites springing up and I am just as anxious as everyone else to see what they all will do!

We have made a couple of small changes to the Affiliate Program, such as lengthening the time a site needs to be operating before they can even apply for the program. But I still believe that it is worth the effort and risk to build future sites. There are no guarantees, of course. We could end up with the same thing happening again further down the road. But I still think the benefits of working closely with your best fan sites outweigh the risk of losing some of them down the road.


Indications from Sigil in recent weeks have shown that it is pretty much business as usual, the devs working long hours to make a dream come true, business meetings, telephone calls, and a flurry of new concept art and lore tidbits. We asked Cindy what the future holds in store for Vanguard fan sites in general, and particularly Vanguard Affiliate sites.

Cindy Bowens: I look forward to a great working relationship with the Affiliates. There are a number of things in the works right now, including invitations for a special Affiliate event at E3 and some gifts that we are sending to each site for them to use as prizes and give-aways. And I am working to get them lots of interviews and features in the coming weeks.

And I also look forward to working with many of the new sites that are just starting out and will eventually become Affiliates. The next few months are going to be a very exciting time in the Vanguard Community!


There is no doubt that the incursion of secondary market influences caused some ties to be broken and some heartache. What has been lost can never be regained, but like the phoenix rising from the ashes of its tragedy, this game seems to continue to live up to its name. Vanguard…indeed a saga of heroes.

Copyright©2005 by Raya. All rights reserved.

Last edited by Raya : 04-12-2005 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 04-13-2005, 05:15 AM   #2
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As always Raya, great interview.
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Old 04-13-2005, 09:24 AM   #3
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Yep, good read.

It's nice that things are getting straightened out at Sigil on the secondary market issue. In a way, the purge has make the remaining affiliates more committed and strong in the fight against the farming IGE bastards.
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Old 04-13-2005, 11:19 AM   #4
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Yes, that's a great interview !
Be strong and keep the effort !

I like the 2 new affiliate sites btw

PS : Staunch I like your signature Go Cowboys
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Old 04-13-2005, 02:48 PM   #5
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Awesome interview!!

Sigil has always had a strong and vocal stance against the secondary market, and that's only a small piece of their attractive character.

I would really like to see an interview about the secondary market with someone other than Cindy though, maybe Brad, or Jeff Butler? I find this subject very very interesting , and would love nothing more than to read something from the exec's of the company.

GO SIGIL!!!
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Old 04-13-2005, 03:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardomyn
PS : Staunch I like your signature Go Cowboys
Cowboys are the greatest, but watch out Oloh will make fun of you because of it.
Or maybe its just me that he picks on about the Cowboys
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Old 04-13-2005, 03:47 PM   #7
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Thanks, guys - it was a very interesting interview.
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Old 04-13-2005, 06:26 PM   #8
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just as an explanation:
Vanguardlive is no longer an affiliate, but not because the site was sold. it is still privately owned, but the owner has not been able to get in touch with cindy. i was made the lead contact and administrator because the site owner is very busy.
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Old 04-13-2005, 06:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rihkotix
just as an explanation:
Vanguardlive is no longer an affiliate, but not because the site was sold. it is still privately owned, but the owner has not been able to get in touch with cindy. i was made the lead contact and administrator because the site owner is very busy.
Rihk, are you referring to my statement that out of the original 14 Affiliate sites, six had sold to IGE? If so, perhaps I should clarify that in the article.
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:16 AM   #10
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Great interview I think...

One thing I'd like to add tho is that there will ALWAYS be a secondary market. As long as items can be passed from one char to another, then the secondary market have a window.
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