[Shelby]

Dude this totally sucks IMO. Now, a portion of your Vanguard game dollars will be going to support SOE. The same company that supports RMT. So now all subscribers will by proxy be supporting RMT. Me stretching the truth, or a sad fact?

[Dillgaar]

Originally Posted by Roena

My husband and I have pretty much come to the conclusion that Microsoft was pushing Sigil to release their product...

So, yeah, still totally shocked

It's not like SOE doesnt have a history of doing the same thing... just look at Star Wars Galaxies... theres no way that game was finished and ready for release

In fact the majority of the beta testers were BEGGING for the game not to be released because it was so unfinished... but SOE had their minds and release date set...

I hope Brad and Sigil stick to their guns about SOE not being involved with the game... I just hope their marketing/distribution etc dont influence when the game goes out

[Oloh]

Originally Posted by Shelby

Me stretching the truth, or a sad fact?

This is you being a moron, and that is the truth, which is, indeed, a sad fact.

To answer substantively, no one should be against selling in game items for cash, provided that the choice is made by the company. Players may choose to not play such games, but that decision is one that is made willingly by game developers. The issue, cupcake, is when a third party unilaterally determines to impose its business on developers, notwithstanding a prohibition.

Brad has said over and over that he has no issues if a developer chooses to sell virtual goods in their own game (like SoE). It is not a choice he is making for Vanguard, but that doesn't mean that other developers shouldn't do it. His issue, rightfully, is with third parties that choose to take that decision from the game's developers.

[Thojorkill]

Im sorry to see that though there is enough money laying around, and though alot of the developers have been very careful about their exact NEGATIVE feelings with regards to SOE and its management tiers, this gigantic step backwards was... Hmm, where is the wheel of nasty adjectives when you need one...

Exchange? IGE type activities? Smed? SWG? Eq2? Planetside? Customer Service? Anything to make a buck except addressing root problems? The list goes ON and ON... Creative control my ass, Smed has destroyed 3 great games. Thats because Smed is not a gamer anymore. He also believes in laws of gaming that are UO era based.

Its a horrible day. I do believe VG:SoH just became another chink in the chain of mediocrity...

Like I said along time ago about pedestals, and doing the right thing, and about the bottom line, and ferraris...

Blah. I'm so happy about this, I could puke.

Oh and Oloh, the person you rightfully attack had the team way up there on the pedestal at one time, and basically LAUNCHED the buzz around VG. We know you've been in bed with the developers for ALONG time, so its ok to take any negative statements personally.

Take a step back though, as he is right. You think the original VG team gets to maintain exacting control of its title now? Not a chance.

With all that backend support comes a price, and we all know what that is going to be.

[givionte]

Guess I'll be sticking to playing WoW through the remaining year. I had my hopes set on Vanguard being an incredible game, but with Sony teamed up with Brad again, you can pretty much kiss me goodbye. SOE has ruined every game they have touched, and this I'm sure will be no exception.

Brad says SOE has no control whatsoever over the game... Yeah right. Will be only a matter of time till Sigil is bought out, and Brad and the gang makes another pretty penny, while the Vanguard game takes a nosedive to the bargain bin at Wal-Mart.

Ugh, what have they done?

[Vyrance]

I for one am happy that SOE is helping out with it. Since I currently play both EQ and EQ2, I would be very pleased if Vanguard ever happened to be added to the Station Pass.

[HolyAvengerOne]

Originally Posted by givionte

Ugh, what have they done?

Nothing yet. Deep breathly and observe.

[HolyAvengerOne]

Originally Posted by Shelby

Dude this totally sucks IMO. Now, a portion of your Vanguard game dollars will be going to support SOE. The same company that supports RMT. So now all subscribers will by proxy be supporting RMT. Me stretching the truth, or a sad fact?

I'm not 100% happy with the news at this point, but what you said is just as idiotic as saying that buying gas to put in your car supports terrorism.

[Shelby]

Brad has said time and time again, that he has a distaste for RMT. He's been very passive on games specifically designed for RMT, but by and large he's been very negative on it for years. He's shouted it from the roof tops for more than 10 years now. In fact here's a quote from him, seems someone already brough up the issue on the Vanguard Forums.

http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/sh...&postcount=299

Brad McQuaid,

Originally Posted by Poster

Tell me if I am wrong. Will ANY of my subscription dollars be going to SOE? SOE is a company that supports RMT, real money transactions. I don't want my money goes to a company that supports RMT.

Originally Posted by Brad McQuaid

Yes, they receive a small royalty for doing the operations, etc. (the stuff listed in the press release). I understand how you feel, and you certainly know my distaste for RMT. That said, this move is the right move for Vanguard and gives us the control we need to make it the game it needs to be. You have to weigh your distaste for any of your dollars going to SOE vs. how important it is to you that Vanguard becomes the game we all want it to be. Whatever your decision, I respect it, but I promise you this was the right move for Sigil and Vanguard.

Oloh, sometimes I'm right. Maybe just once.

Originally Posted by Oloh

Brad has said over and over that he has no issues if a developer chooses to sell virtual goods in their own game (like SoE).

Then there's this post by Brad McQuaid about how he disagree's with SMEDLEY re: the station exchange.

Originally Posted by Brad McQuaid

Anyway, enough babbling -- he knows where I disagree with him on issues (for example, the station exchange), and we agree to disagree.

I could find you a dozen more quotes, where he talks about how real world wealth should not effect in game status.

[wyrd33]

Originally Posted by wyrd33

It's updated once every hour. I just checked the scan logs, and it looks like at the time of its last scan the official forums weren't loading (probably heavy load from the news).

It'll update soon enough.

Tracker updated. You can find all of Aradune's responses to the latest fiasco on the forums right here:

http://www.silkyvenom.com/pages/devt...ite=1&id=51136

[Shelby]

Thojorkill,

Nice to see you again mate.

[Spirit]

http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/member.php?u=82340

Say hello to the newest member of the team, John Smedly. You couldn't make it up if you tried.

[Shelby]

Originally Posted by Lycrist

I'm guessing they wanted to focus on XBOX360 games or something; that, or they wanted to release Vanguard too early? Not sure really; but from what Brad said, the change was a mutual agreement.

Well the Xbox 360 issue was pressed in the begining. I wonder how much of that resulted in todays action. In fact Tom King even did some Vanguard UI work for the Xbox 360. Anyone in beta can open up their art assests and see the artwork for the AB XY on screen UI.

[Oloh]

Originally Posted by Shelby

Brad has said time and time again, that he has a distaste for RMT.

You think?

You are trying to stir the pot here. SOE permits in game sales. VG will be published, in part by SOE. Ergo, VG cusomters are supporting in game sales.

The thing you are "glossing over" is that most people hate companies like IGE. While they may not like SOE's decision to permit in game sales for EQ or EQII, they realize that it is a business decsion just like anything else. They may not choose to play, but its certainly not the feelings like it is for IGE.

It is not hard to imagine a game that uses in game sales to support itself. Shit, think of a game like SIMS Online or Second Life where there is no monthly fee and you just buy real estate from the company to play on. Certainly no one would have an issue with that model.

If you were stupid, I would just say that you don't understand the distinction. But you're not stupid, you are actually a pretty bright guy. So, you know what you are doing and I have to admit I'm quickly growing impatient with you, Shelby.

[Aidden]

Well the Xbox 360 issue was pressed in the begining. I wonder how much of that resulted in todays action. In fact Tom King even did some Vanguard UI work for the Xbox 360. Anyone in beta can open up their art assests and see the artwork for the AB XY on screen UI.

Or so you have heard?

[Belisarius]

Seem a little cranky Oloh.

[Aidden]

Well there really is only so much drama and irrational behavior one can take before one snaps. Frankly Oloh seems rather calm to me, of course I’m not known for having a nice demeanor.

[Havelock]

It sounds like the impetus for this is time - on FoH, the hints are that MS wanted to push it out soon and Sigil wants a longer beta to tune it right. If that's the case, this is a great move (and a ballsy one) that will benefit us all immensely.

[Shelby]

Oloh, you said.

Originally Posted by Oloh

Brad has said over and over that he has no issues if a developer chooses to sell virtual goods in their own game (like SoE).

Then I showed you a quote by Brad stating the oposite. I'm not trying to stir the pot, I proved your statement false. You make a claim, I prove it wrong. End of story. Again I'm not trying to stir the pot I'm just pulling up quotes.

Originally Posted by Oloh

The thing you are "glossing over" is that most people hate companies like IGE. While they may not like SOE's decision to permit in game sales for EQ or EQII, they realize that it is a business decsion just like anything else. They may not choose to play, but its certainly not the feelings like it is for IGE.

I agree whole heartedly with you. It isn't the same feelings as anti IGE sentiment. But the feelings of players when SOE annouced the Station Exchange were pretty clear. Do you remember the Vanguard forums when this was announced? The outcry? The exodus of players from SOE.

I know I canceled my SOE account. I know thousands of people did also. They spoke with their dollars. Now, the reality is a portion of your Vanguard subscription dollars will be going to SOE. I canceled my SOE account because I didn't want to give them any more of money.

Can't I be upset that now my Vanguard dollars will be going to SOE?.

Originally Posted by Oloh

If you were stupid, I would just say that you don't understand the distinction. But you're not stupid, you are actually a pretty bright guy. So, you know what you are doing and I have to admit I'm quickly growing impatient with you, Shelby.

Oloh, you're reaching. I don't know why you're reaching, but I wish you weren't. I'm just upset. I'm upset like a lot gamers right now. Vanguard was an paradise. For a lot of us, after years of abuse from SOE, we had a home. We had a game. Now the game may be the same. I firmly belive the game won't change noticably. But I and gamers alike can be upset that SOE is getting my money again.

Guilty by assocation. I can see the paralell's people just don't like looking at em.

[AgentJ]

Ahhhh Errrr Uhhhhh WHAT!........................

*Decides to just look at whats going on in the Atari-NwN2 Dept*

Ooooh, I found a slip-up!

Brad:
5. SOE was TOTALLY cool with this. They are excited to have the people who designed and worked on the original EQ and EQ expansions provide a game for them. They need a game like Vanguard next year -- it gives them a variety of games from which players can choose from, or players can just play Vanguard.