My first build..

IgnatztheDestroyer · 09-10-2006, 12:23 PM

..and it hasn't gone as expected

First, lemme send out a huge thank you to all the members contributing on this forum, and especially to Fozzik for your excellent how to guides and articles. Your wealth of knowledge has proved to be invaluble to myself and I'm sure many other lurkers out there. That said, on to my specific issue.

So I spent all day yesterday putting my lovely together... patiently, meticulously, with love and care. Routing the cables just so, for a nice clean look, only to have her maliciously break my heart

Got everything plugged in and, with much anticipation, hit the power button. She spun to life, fans, cd-rom, HDD. Everything seemed normal - that is until she just powered off. Hmmm, tried again. Same result. All the fans are spinning up. The CD-DVD turns on. The HD starts to spin up. And that's about the time she turns off. 3-4 seconds is about as long as she'll go before powering off.

I've tried everything my novice-tech-nerd-self can think of. I've double and triple checked my power and data cables. I've tried unplugging unnescesary hardware with the same result. Changing the DIMM slots my ram sticks are in. Nothin'.

A buddy stopped over while in the middle of this. He's stumped also. We're both thinking it could be the psu, but I haven't gotten the chance to try this theory out since he'd have to go get his. Thing is, everything is powering on like it's supposed to and then a few seconds later, off she goes. Could it just be a lack of juice? I've got a 500wt Enermax Liberty in there now which, I believe, should be enough to power this pc.

Specs:
Asus M2N SLI Deluxe mobo
Athlon 64 x2 4600+ AM2 socket
EVGA 7900 GTX gpu
Seagate Barracuda 250gig SATA
NEC CD-DVD drive
Creative X-Fi sound card

I'm stumped. Has anyone else run into this problem? Do you have any idea what else it may be? I'm out of ideas and don't have the spare parts to start swapping out to try and narrow the problem down.

Any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated. This is one helluva great community and I'm hoping that someone else out there has experienced a similiar problem in the past and can point me in the right direction.

Thanks again guys!

Fozzik · 09-10-2006, 01:22 PM

Welcome to the boards, and I'm sorry it has to be under these circumstances.

I think the power supply is one good place to start. If your buddy can bring over another one to try...swapping it might be one of the simplest tests you can do.

Other things that come immediately to mind -

1) check the wires for the front panel of your case, and how they are plugged into the motherboard. If the power button wire or the reset button wire are backwards or not on the right pins, it might cause something like this.

2) You didn't mention memory in your specs. What brand and speed of memory are you using?

3) Another thing to try (maybe even more simple than swapping power supplies) is to unplug power connectors you don't need. Unplug the power to the hard drive and CD drive, and remove the soundcard. You could also unplug case fans (if they are plugged directly into the power supply). See if the machine will boot into the BIOS that way. If it does, you can plug things back in one at a time as a way of possibly narrowing down the cause.

I've actually seen that problem before...it was quite a long time ago and so I can't be sure, but I think it was a Dell desktop in that case and it turned out to be a bad motherboard. Don't worry about that for now, though...lots of things to try before having to worry about taking the motherboard back out.

redavni · 09-10-2006, 02:11 PM

Just some more questions that might help diagnose the problem.

Does it POST (meaning does it get to the bios screen at all)?

Make sure the 4-pin ATX 12V power connector is hooked up.

Hook up the speaker if it isn't already. Do you get any beeps before it powers off? What sequence if so?

Try clearing the CMOS.

rabb1t · 09-10-2006, 04:12 PM

My first thoughts are a couple of things – a dead PSU, or a CPU that isn’t cooling right and you are hitting the 80c shut off point (which you literally can do in a few seconds.)

The first we can only tell by changing the PSU. The second shouldn’t be an issue if you are using the retail cooler and it is installed properly. However, if you can get to the bios you can see the CPU temp, which would indicate which way the problem is going between those 2 potential problems. (If you see the CPU overheating, obviously it's CPU. If it seems stable, it's power.)

As mentioned, be sure the board has power (and the +4 is in) as well as the CPU plug, and check your chains. Sometimes PSUs are picky and want fans on their own lines. (Typically though if a PSU is being picky it won't boot at all.)

IgnatztheDestroyer · 09-10-2006, 10:01 PM

Thanks for all replys! Much appreciated!

To answer some questions:

You didn't mention memory in your specs. What brand and speed of memory are you using?

I knew I forgot something. Corsair XMS 240 pin DDR2 800.

1) check the wires for the front panel of your case, and how they are plugged into the motherboard. If the power button wire or the reset button wire are backwards or not on the right pins, it might cause something like this.

I'll double check this in a moment and report back!

3) Another thing to try (maybe even more simple than swapping power supplies) is to unplug power connectors you don't need. Unplug the power to the hard drive and CD drive, and remove the soundcard. You could also unplug case fans (if they are plugged directly into the power supply). See if the machine will boot into the BIOS that way. If it does, you can plug things back in one at a time as a way of possibly narrowing down the cause.

We did that last night with the same result every time.

Does it POST (meaning does it get to the bios screen at all)?

Nope. Monitor doesn't even come out of 'sleep' mode.

Make sure the 4-pin ATX 12V power connector is hooked up

All hooked up. I even tried swapping cables to no avail.

Hook up the speaker if it isn't already. Do you get any beeps before it powers off? What sequence if so?

My case speaker is bundled with my front led lights. I'll double check this also in a moment. Assuming it's where it needs to be, I get no beeps.

Try clearing the CMOS.

Newb question INC! What's CMOS?

My first thoughts are a couple of things – a dead PSU, or a CPU that isn’t cooling right and you are hitting the 80c shut off point (which you literally can do in a few seconds.)

Hmmm. I suppose that might be it, tho the fan is powering up as it should. Seems I'd be able to feel some heat near the cpu (heatsink has been cool to the touch) if it were running that hot that fast.

The second shouldn’t be an issue if you are using the retail cooler and it is installed properly.

Yeah, I am. This was the easiest part of the whole project imo. 'Cept for that heatsink part - I'm still pulling pieces of yesterdays jeans from my buttocks. Jesus, I thought that mobo was gonna snap in two.

As mentioned, be sure the board has power (and the +4 is in) as well as the CPU plug, and check your chains. Sometimes PSUs are picky and want fans on their own lines. (Typically though if a PSU is being picky it won't boot at all.)

All of my case fans are plugged into the mobo. I honestly wouldn't know how to run them straight from the psu. As far as chains, I only had the HDD and CD-DVD on a chain, which I split up with no luck.
I've been constantly figeting with different things, changing cables etc. I'm hoping I can get my buddy over here within the next few days, so I can persecute or pardon my current psu. I'm all but convinced that's the problem, especially after hearing what you all had to say, but I won't know for sure til I can get a psu I KNOW is working properly. For simplicities sake I'm really hoping that's the problem.

Thanks again, fellas! I'll keep ya posted!

***Edit***

Just ran down and checked my front cables. Everything is hooked up correctly. Everything goes into a one piece connector for the mobo and it's impossible to plug it in the wrong way. My quest continues!

rabb1t · 09-10-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgnatztheDestroyer

Just ran down and checked my front cables. Everything is hooked up correctly. Everything goes into a one piece connector for the mobo and it's impossible to plug it in the wrong way. My quest continues!

I don't know if I'd say that. You could have the cables in the right position, but flipped upside-down. (At least I think that's possible.)

Hum... it should be able to get to bios under any situation -or- it shouldn't boot at all. That sounds fishy to me. I'd highly recommend not attempting any more restarts and trying out a different PSU. (As if it is a dying PSU it could take other parts with it.)

Something in the 350w-400w range would cover that system, such as this Antec TruePower TPII 380w at $60. Just be sure it is 350w or higher and has at least 16a on the v12 line (total). Something like that you could run to Frys to get (and easily return if you don't need it) and it would allow you to check if it were indeed the PSU at fault.

If the CPU is hooked up correctly, and the case pins are attached correctly to the MB, the only thing that I could think that would prevent boot is a bad PSU or a dead CPU.

Don’t know, that’s an odd one. All the problems with the PSU being hooked up incorrectly I’ve had have prevented boot entirely.

Fozzik · 09-10-2006, 11:59 PM

Well, based on what you're telling us... it looks like we've narrowed it down to the big stuff. Which sucks, but I guess narrowing it down is much better than not knowing.

SO...power supply, motherboard, or CPU...although I would say CPU is a longshot. Power supply and/or motherboard would be by far the more likely. Motherboard is going to be my bet, but I could of course be wrong. It's fairly easy to check either the power supply or the motherboard, as rabb1t said. If you have a computer component store near you, you can pick up the parts, and then return them (or get your buddy to bring a motherboard, too. hehe). It will hopefully let you know where the problem is, so you can send stuff back RMA for a replacement.

AgentJ · 09-11-2006, 01:04 AM

That sounds like when my motherboard fried. Couldn't get the comp to start up at all. Black screen'd. Tried another power supply, hard-drive, memory... no beeps, nothing.

Replaced mobo and it started up without a hitch. I really hope that isnt it in this case though....... since that was the mobo I might get if going AMD

rabb1t · 09-11-2006, 01:18 AM

You know, the ram in the wrong slots would prevent boot as well. Do you have them in slot '1' and '3' counting from 'left' to 'right' (they are yellow) if you were looking at it as the MB would be if you were looking into a case with a window?

Not sure how it would complain, but the GPU is in the 'top' / blue slot, yes?

And the HD is connected to port 1?

redavni · 09-11-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgnatztheDestroyer

Try clearing the CMOS.

Newb question INC! What's CMOS?

The CMOS is a bit of NVRAM (Flash memory) on the motherboard that holds your BIOS settings. Sometimes MB's ship with settings that may not be compatible with your setup, and can't autodetect everything correctly to boot. I know ABIT reccomends you always clear the CMOS when you power up for the first time.

Clearing the CMOS usually involves switching the position a 2 pin jumper on the MB, cycling the power, then switching it back. The instructions for your board are in the manual though.
You can also clear the CMOS by pulling the battery out of the motherboard for a while, but that's usually just a last resort.

IgnatztheDestroyer · 09-11-2006, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabb1t

You know, the ram in the wrong slots would prevent boot as well. Do you have them in slot '1' and '3' counting from 'left' to 'right' (they are yellow) if you were looking at it as the MB would be if you were looking into a case with a window?

Not sure how it would complain, but the GPU is in the 'top' / blue slot, yes?

And the HD is connected to port 1?

Yep. That's where they is. Tried them in both channels to be sure.

Yes, in the blue PCI-E slot.

Mine's labeled SATA1, but that's gotta be the same thing, yes?

IgnatztheDestroyer · 09-11-2006, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redavni

The CMOS is a bit of NVRAM (Flash memory) on the motherboard that holds your BIOS settings. Sometimes MB's ship with settings that may not be compatible with your setup, and can't autodetect everything correctly to boot. I know ABIT reccomends you always clear the CMOS when you power up for the first time.

Clearing the CMOS usually involves switching the position a 2 pin jumper on the MB, cycling the power, then switching it back. The instructions for your board are in the manual though.
You can also clear the CMOS by pulling the battery out of the motherboard for a while, but that's usually just a last resort.

Thanks. I'm gonna try hardware swaps for the time being but I'll keep this in mind if I come up empty.

rabb1t · 09-11-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgnatztheDestroyer

Mine's labeled SATA1, but that's gotta be the same thing, yes?

Whatever. hehehe

IgnatztheDestroyer · 09-11-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fozzik

Well, based on what you're telling us... it looks like we've narrowed it down to the big stuff. Which sucks, but I guess narrowing it down is much better than not knowing.

SO...power supply, motherboard, or CPU...although I would say CPU is a longshot. Power supply and/or motherboard would be by far the more likely. Motherboard is going to be my bet, but I could of course be wrong. It's fairly easy to check either the power supply or the motherboard, as rabb1t said. If you have a computer component store near you, you can pick up the parts, and then return them (or get your buddy to bring a motherboard, too. hehe). It will hopefully let you know where the problem is, so you can send stuff back RMA for a replacement.

Looks like a trip to CompUSA is in order!

Unfortunately, he's on the old 939 socket, so I have to go buy new to swap cpu/mobo. Quick question assuming I need to start swapping CPUs. Will I need to spread more paste everytime I install into the mobo? Just to be clear - if I were to take my current cpu out of my mobo and swap into a new mobo, would I need to spread more goop, or will it be fine as is?

Thanks again fellas for taking the time to help me out here!

To be continued....

IgnatztheDestroyer · 09-11-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabb1t

Whatever. hehehe

Not even I can get THAT wrong, and I can be rather dull witted at times.

rabb1t · 09-11-2006, 09:36 PM

If it is the retail stuff, and you are moving the CPU from one board to another, provided you don't mess up the goo in any way it should be fine. (You absolutely can't touch it or get any dirt and whatnot on it.)

If you are using your own goo, such as you are using Arctic Silver, I'd say go ahead and wipe it clean and then reapply it when you move the CPU.

(Reason being that the retail stuff should probably 'be there' should you need to return the CPU, like if it is DOA, to 'prove' that you attempted it as intended by AMD.)

Quote:

Not even I can get THAT wrong, and I can be rather dull witted at times.

hehe well, ya never know. When I first got a board with raid ports I didn't check and accidentally had it plugged into 'raid 1' instead of regular port 1 and it wouldn't boot.

IgnatztheDestroyer · 09-14-2006, 12:48 PM

It was the motherboard. I'm in the process of getting an RMA from Newegg. Hoping to have my new one in a week or so.

You guys are some computer geniuses, I guarantee

Fozzik · 09-14-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IgnatztheDestroyer

It was the motherboard. I'm in the process of getting an RMA from Newegg. Hoping to have my new one in a week or so.

You guys are some computer geniuses, I guarantee

Bah... every now and then we guess right.

Tylith · 09-14-2006, 07:03 PM

Well I'm glad you narrowed down the problem! lol. I'm so glad fozzik and rabbit and others come to aid so quickly...

I'll probably need it when i start my build this winter....

Hope the new MoBo works.