[Hunchback]

Ok, this game caught my attention recently, and i've been looking over the net for more info, but it's kind of... scarce or messed up.
I read a lot of game-site reviews and some dev posts, but it's kind of hard to extract the -real- info from all the media-style writing of "being too afraid to diss the game but also too afraid to praise it cause it ain't final", and the dev style of writing like "we don't say our game is the best out there, but you know... it will be the best" :P

So i decided to ask a couple of questions that are very important to me when determining which MMO to play, but the original forums are closed, so i ended up here. I want to excuse myself if i ask questions asked many times before. I know how forums and searches work etc, but i just want to have my specific questions answered for me in one place.

So to put up some background first: I am a life-long fan of UO. That said, i simply love everything about UO, the lack of levels, the extreme level of freedom, the house building, the community ran towns, economy and everything... For sure it had a load of problems aswell, but still i consider it the best MMO to date. Otherwise i've spent long time playing a MUD, Medievia, but at some point i just got bored. I've played quite a bit of WoW(yeah, i know) and in the beginning i liked it a lot even though it had obviously stolen almost everything from other games, including Medievia, i accepted it cause it's what Blizz do best after all. Anyway, i recently got really pissed at WoW, just couldn't stand all the grinding and bullshit, and that together with the incredible limitations it puts down made me quit. Now i've been playing EVE for a while, and i really love how EXTREMELY free it is, but there is something wrong with it. Dunno, just feels maybe a bit too distant for me. Haven't played EQ though, so don't use it as a reference or make sure you explain well.
Oh, i am 22. Just a note.


So in short what i hope for - e beefed up UO, in sorts.

What are the most important features of a game:

1) Freedom. As in, no limitations in WoW style "you can't attack those people because they are on your side, you can't speak with those people because they are enemy, you can't change the world cause it's static and we want it that way...". I want freedom of choice to whatever and then take the consequences. Take UO white/gray/red system for example.

2) Ballance - Not much to be said. Don't want "omglolwtfpiwnedyounaked rogues" and shit like that.

3) Maturity - that's another very important perk, and i am not talking about blood, gore, rape etc(ofcourse that's a plus), i am talking about the community. For example EVE somehow manages to attract mainly mature players. Maybe it's because of it's complicated mechanics etc, dunno. Still, i just hate idiot kids running around talking 1337, asking of shit and then crying when they get "wtfpwned" or whatever. No bubbleboys plsktnxbye :P. *shrug* call it snobbishness or whatever, atleast i am honest.

4)Meaningful PvP - guess this is part of the freedom section, but still i am mostly PvP player and i consider PvE a mean to collect the means to PvP well. That means i hope there are no "PvE builds" and "PvP builds" or even worse - "PvE classes" and "PvP classes". I'd love to see flexibility and multy-use of skills, tallents, perks, feats, whetever means you have in possession.

5) Meaningful craft system - Sorry to take WoW for example again, but there crafting skills were really almost useless. You could get much better items from grinding dungeons etc, so in short crafting was just to maybe help you level up a bit because it sometimes provided better things than the ones that drop from monsters your range. Where in OU 90% of the stuff wore were player made.

6) Deterioration of items - That is almost a 100% MUST imho. If you get indestructible stuff or there is no mean to lose an item you have, the game turns into an endless grindfest where you get powerful stuff just so you can get even more powerful stuff and throw away the previous. Thanks but no thanks.

7) Penalty of death - the best scenario for me would be the EVE/UO one, where when you die you risk having all your shit looted, and the matter if or not is left to the player who killed you. That method also kind of presumes that there are no OMGEPIX that change the game GENERALLY once you have or not have them.

In short, i want hardcore game where you have a lot of freedom to do whatever you feel like without artificial limits(as much as possible ofcourse), items are not the MAIN game-changing content and community play is encouraged.
Reading all the advertisments and stuff, Vanguard is supposed to give all that, but is that really the case?

[norvak]

hmm sounds like you should check out Darkfall Online when it is released.

[Hunchback]

Or maybe Ragnarok...

But what about Vanguard?

[NorrinRadd]

I did not play UO, sorry. I will try to give you some feedback on my experiences.

1.Diplomacy will be to your liking if you are looking for the freedom you ask

2.You wont have to worry to much about that, classes are still being revamped pre and post launch. I have a rougue right now that needs fixing

3.Right now I feel the comunity is pretty mature, who knows where we will be after launch though. At the start of beata 5 there was an infusion of people that were idiots, but most are gone now

4. I have not played on a PVP server yet, I'm still waiting to see what the final rules are. We only have one we are testing on. I will probably start on one at launch

5. Crafting is so much better than WOW, there are guides and q&a with the devs on this subject everywhere. Personally, I love it. It is not button mashing and it requires actual thought

6. item decay is in the game, I would say it's about the same rate as WOW

7.Death penalties are after lvl 7 right now. You can corpse run back to your tombstone and retrieve lost xp and gear, you can also pay copper at alters and retreive your gear with little loss of xp, there are othe options also.



Based on your wants in a MMO, I think you would enjoy this game. It has more freedom than any MMO I've played in 4 years, When trying to describe to my friends what Vanguard feels like, I tell them it feels like your really there. I feel connected, I want to explore. Just take note, some think the game needs to be delayed and polished more. I am happy with the game and were its going. We will see.

[Loampounder]

I have not played UO, so I cannot compare directly, but I can offer a few words.

1 - Freedom - Sigil is promoting the game as "Freedom" because of the ability to "go anywhere", i.e. no physical limitations on travel. Asside from PvP, Sigil generally takes the soft limit approach to things - you can wear high level armor at low level, but there is an adjustment; high level weapons are not effective at low levels, etc. Basically, you can do things but the full effectiveness is at the proper level. PvP discussion later.

2 - Balance - Sigil is committed to balance because the game was intended to be a community, grouping game. Sigil has committed to making all classes a fun and meaningful role.

3 - Maturity - Kind of in the eye of the beholder. I will say that the community over the past years has been more mature than some other games I have seen. I think Vanguard (with higher specs, a more old school image, and with WoW still going strong) will attract a more mature community. We will just need to see.

4 - Meaningful PvP - Sigil has build Vanguard to be a PvE game, so any PvP is an in0rganic add-on. Sigil seems to want to support PvP but it is a secondary ideal and the PvP servers so far in beta have shown nothing other than FFA will basic FFA problems (corpse camping, ganking groups, etc.) There are team rules proposed that pit continents against continents, but I don't see the "meaningful" part you want.

5 - Craft system - Vanguard has a great, indepth crafting system that yields a lot of great items. I think raids are still suppose to have the best uber items, but in the basic economy crafting items rule. There is even a process for crafters to take apart basic magical items to get raw material to make better magical items. The crafting economy seems like it will be a real strong point of the community.

6 - Deterioration of items - Sigil is testing a new process by which equipment is damaged, but it's a simple pay-the-merchant-to-fix repair process. Change and growth is suppose to be through acquisition of new stuff. Older stuff will be discarded, not sold, as there is a soulbinding process that makes previously worn stuff non-resellable. This is suppose to help the crafters by removing old stuff from the market.

7 - Penalty of Death - Mixed bag. In theory, when you die, all of your equipment is left on the corpse. But, you can soulbind certain things to your so you can reappear with equipment, basically your worn things, not things in bags. This leads to a system where you need to fight back, with your equipment, to get your bags and things in bags. There will probably be no looting rewards from PvP.

It sounds like Vanguard will give you half of what you are looking for - a content-right, strong community without the PvP or strong freedom you desire and where items are the main game. Sigil is taking a middle ground to support the community and enable more players to engage in the game. Good or bad? <shrug> I'm not sure if the hardcore game you are looking for is viable any more, but Vanguard does seems to have some good depth and community support.

[Hunchback]

Thanks for the info. Even though it's bad news for me, i still appreciate it.

[Hunchback]

shameless bump just for measures