08-08-2007, 03:49 PM
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#163
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoyota
I have heard and read from plenty of people with credentials and experience in the field far beyond ourselves speak of this in stronger terms than mere uncertainty.
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Have any of them published a paper in a major peer reviewed Journal? If they haven’t and if they are not referencing the work of people who have, the chances are they either don’t know nearly as much as they say, or they are simply lying to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoyota
I have heard and read from plenty of people with credentials and experience in the field far beyond ourselves speak of this in stronger terms than mere uncertainty.
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China has 4X the population of the US, so they are producing 1/4 of the CO2 per person compared to the US. The US would need to cut emissions by 75% to reach these levels.
Of course you could argue that it’s only absolute CO2 production that matters, in which cases lower population countries like Germany and France should basically receive a free pass and not have to cut production at all because they already produce much less CO2 then the US. As one of the more populated contries, the US's "fair share" of CO2 emissiosn would actuly be much smaller if we were to ignore population...
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08-08-2007, 04:04 PM
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#164
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*BANNED*
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Name: Atoyota
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What I'm saying is that China's population is not all online yet, with automobiles, even basic electricity and plumbing, not to mention energy gobbling conveniences....
When they are, then make your per ca-pita assessment, because it does not accurately reflect the future. Its a numbers game that you will eventually lose.
As for papers and publications, I would'nt know I don't subscribe to the journals. Yet the people I have read, and the several in the swindle doc have better credentials than you or I.
They were not funded by oil, and I have read others who speak out without any conflicts of interest. In fact I am more skeptical of those on the other side of the argument, as to their funding and lack of conflicts.
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08-08-2007, 04:29 PM
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#165
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoyota
What I'm saying is that China's population is not all online yet, with automobiles, even basic electricity and plumbing, not to mention energy gobbling conveniences....
When they are, then make your per ca-pita assessment, because it does not accurately reflect the future. Its a numbers game that you will eventually lose.
As for papers and publications, I would'nt know I don't subscribe to the journals. Yet the people I have read, and the several in the swindle doc have better credentials than you or I.
They were not funded by oil, and I have read others who speak out without any conflicts of interest. In fact I am more skeptical of those on the other side of the argument, as to their funding and lack of conflicts.
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08-09-2007, 02:21 PM
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#166
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
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Glacier pairs
Pictures of the same glacier take from the same place and same time of year
McCall Glacier 1958 vs 2003 (left as a link due to size)
http://nsidc.org/data/docs/noaa/g004...call_hires.jpg
Qori Kalis Glacier 1978 vs 2004
Muir Glacier 1941 vs 2004
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Last edited by lomiller : 08-09-2007 at 02:26 PM.
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08-09-2007, 07:43 PM
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#167
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Name: Atoyota
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And I wish we had some pictures of the Vikings when they were farming on Greenland  |
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08-10-2007, 12:00 AM
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#168
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoyota
And I wish we had some pictures of the Vikings when they were farming on Greenland |
you mean like this guy is?
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08-10-2007, 04:55 AM
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#169
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*BANNED*
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Name: Atoyota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomiller
you mean like this guy is?
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Yeah... we are going to need to grow tons of corn to replace the gasoline we won't be burning 
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08-10-2007, 05:06 AM
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#170
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*BANNED*
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Name: Atoyota
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Last edited by Atoyota : 08-10-2007 at 05:10 AM.
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08-14-2007, 03:46 PM
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#171
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*BANNED*
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Name: Atoyota
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Last edited by Atoyota : 08-14-2007 at 03:50 PM.
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08-15-2007, 02:27 PM
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#172
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoyota
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They have a couple mistakes. 1998 was and still is the warmest year on record worldwide. (tie with 2005 in some data sets.)
1998 was never declaired the warmest year on record in the US. It was 0.01 deg warmer then 1934, which is too small a difference to declare one year warmer then the other. with this change 1934 is now 0.01 deg warmer so the two are still tied for the warmest year on record in the US.
here is the Before and After effect on global temperatures.
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08-15-2007, 04:44 PM
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#173
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*BANNED*
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Name: Atoyota
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oh i realised the data was miniscule, the article said as much. It just points out how data manipulation can make a difference in perceptions.
Side note... after 1934
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Days later, it put out a revised list of all-time hottest years. The Dust Bowl year of 1934 now ranks as hottest ever in the U.S. – not 1998.
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Science was thinking ice age, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread.
And you will argue that average temps have risen steadily since of course.
I feel the drama or sensationalism of "Global warming" is pretty comical.
CO2 I still feel is not the cause, but I do not leave mankind blameless or without affect in my unscientific theory. I just don't put it on CO2 and carbon emissions. |
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09-12-2007, 02:31 PM
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#175
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,412
Server: Hilsbury
Name: Skinner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoyota
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Quote:
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A new analysis of peer-reviewed literature reveals that more than 500 scientists have published evidence refuting at least one element of current man-made global warming scares.
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How many elements do you think play into the Global Warming issue? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? How many scientists have done Global Warming research? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?
The article even goes on to say that many of the scientists whose studies were used in this analysis would not even consider themselves as being anti-global warming. It's simply some other person using their data to try and skew evidence to be used against the global warming debate.
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__________________
Skinner - *Retired* 50 Cleric of Hilsbury
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09-12-2007, 02:32 PM
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#176
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,870
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The Las Vegas Valley put on record the hottest summer ever recorded here in 2007.
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__________________
Light travels faster then sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.
I used to be so big and strong,
I used to know my right from wrong.
I used to never be afraid,
I used to be somebody.
-p
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09-12-2007, 02:40 PM
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#177
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*BANNED*
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,643
Name: Atoyota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsheMan
How many elements do you think play into the Global Warming issue? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? How many scientists have done Global Warming research? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?
The article even goes on to say that many of the scientists whose studies were used in this analysis would not even consider themselves as being anti-global warming. It's simply some other person using their data to try and skew evidence to be used against the global warming debate.
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No, what it says is that an unstoppable 1400-1500 year pattern has and continues to occur. That the papers they have published (under peer review) have been downplayed or ignored to favor those of the more popular hysteria that is labled "Global Warming" and not Climate change (as it should be).
I have no doubt man plays a part (a large part), as do mosquitos and grasshoppers (or any living organism (plantlife included))
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Originally Posted by In context
Other researchers found evidence that 3) sea levels are failing to rise importantly; 4) that our storms and droughts are becoming fewer and milder with this warming as they did during previous global warmings; 5) that human deaths will be reduced with warming because cold kills twice as many people as heat; and 6) that corals, trees, birds, mammals, and butterflies are adapting well to the routine reality of changing climate.
Despite being published in such journals such as Science, Nature and Geophysical Review Letters, these scientists have gotten little media attention. "Not all of these researchers would describe themselves as global warming skeptics," said Avery, "but the evidence in their studies is there for all to see."
The names were compiled by Avery and climate physicist S. Fred Singer, the co-authors of the new book Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years, mainly from the peer-reviewed studies cited in their book. The researchers' specialties include tree rings, sea levels, stalagmites, lichens, pollen, plankton, insects, public health, Chinese history and astrophysics.
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09-12-2007, 04:30 PM
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#178
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,870
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http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9775824-7.html
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Le Lievre told an audience at the Going Green conference that a 92-mile square (92 miles a side, which works out to be a little less than 8,500 square miles) in the desert--a very small amount--could provide all of the electricity in the country.
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ALL the electricity.
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__________________
Light travels faster then sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.
I used to be so big and strong,
I used to know my right from wrong.
I used to never be afraid,
I used to be somebody.
-p
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09-12-2007, 06:54 PM
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#179
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*BANNED*
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,643
Name: Atoyota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perfect
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I like the idea because its also reflective, meaning some of the solar irradiation wil go back to space (not all wavelengths) and will not be absorbed/converted to heat except where its used to make steam.
Yes this is truely a green idea, even better than solar panels which give off a lot of heat.
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09-13-2007, 01:34 PM
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#180
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoyota
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Quote:
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The names were compiled by Avery and climate physicist S. Fred Singer
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FYI Singer is a former "we don't know if Cigarettes cause cancer!” Tobacco industry lobbyist. He didn’t take up “Climate Science” until the money from the Cigarette lobby dried up.
Here is a pretty thorough debunking of this so called “1500 year cycle”. A) the cycle only exists if you snip 800 years out of the record and B) if it did exist we would be entering the coldest part of the cycle.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...tion-lesson-2/
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Last edited by lomiller : 09-13-2007 at 01:42 PM.
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