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The dev tracker is no longer actively scanning, however you may continue to browse the archives collected over the past several years here. Please remember that these developer posts are taken out of context, so beware of any silky venom being spewed forth.

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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 10:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darus Grey View Post
Brad, I have a serious question.

Is there anyone on your team who is the equivalent of an economist?
If the answer is no, you really should consider it. If its yes, I don't think they're doing a good job(and I hate being mean saying that, but I consider myself an expert in this field, and theres some simply mind boggling issues.)

Theres been some changes that really make me question your guys issues with crafting vs world drop quality.
It often seems to me whoever is making these changes from a "balance" standpoint is ignoring or at least not factoring highly the economic impacts of these changes.

The way the economy on most servers is heading, world drops keep lowering in price, but the value of rare crafting materials keeps *rising* as more competition levels up competing for the same scarce resource pools.

This was already creating a large disparity in the perceived value of crafted goods.
As a weaponsmith, sure I could until 2 patches ago make "the best" weapons ingame. Often at 10-20x the price to *make* it compared to a world drop/quest its with maybe 5% less overall damage.
Thats one of those things that seems balanced on paper(comparing a heroic crafted weapon to a heroic world one), but in reality the scarcity of resources to make them is driving prices through the roof and significantly lowering thier overall value.

The recent change monday in the T4/T5 upgrade recipes made it even worse, leatherworkers and mineralolgists got particulary , for lack of a better word- screwed.
Adding the requirement of *another* rare secondary component, basically doubled the cost to make many items.

In the case of LW and MIN it raised the minimum costs to make the items by so much that they now have no value on the market, they're simply to expensive for what you get.

Its also having a spiraling effect on those resources, the rare secondaries are now climbing higher in price, and will continue to do so for forseeable future.

This again is continuing to widen the already large gap in the power < - > cost disparity between crafted and world drops, as crafted goods will continue to become even more expensive to make/buy, well world drops can only get cheaper over time as more drop.

I would seriously urge your team to consider the economic impact of many of these changes, from my perspective it seems more like a "throw it in, see what happens" approach, vs anyone putting in thought on the longterm economic effects of some of these changes.
I think it would be great to have a RL economist on staff -- it's just a matter of budget. MMOG economies mirror RL economies in many ways, although not all, and having that insight would be very nice.
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 10:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locithon View Post
I'm just wondering Brad how you really expect us to raid? I've been seeing that GM's are turning everyone in the raid into a skele so they get more than 3-5 fps. And thats' w/no other guilds there camping for the mob. Since raid mobs apparently will be fought over, can you seriously expect people to tackle a raid mob while getting 1-2 fps? Are there solutions coming down the pipe for this sort of thing?

Because when you say you can get 30 fps in most situations, that's assuming there's a single group. Performance comes to a halt though with 24 people, even on highest performance.

Not to be all negative though, our guild just finished the entire Pantheon of the Ancients trials and I have to say it's the best dungeon i've seen in VG yet. Hopefully the endgame single man dungeons are going to be this good.
The plan, as I understand it, is to use lower poly/texture LOD models of player and NPC characters (especially PCs) when too many players and mobs are in your view. The visual quality will go down, but at least you will have framerate.
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 10:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twobit Whore View Post
He doesn't have to give details, but he doesn't have to use doublespeak or give false information either. Personally, I was just curious as to why he would say moving to SOE caused beta to start early, when beta started 6+ months prior.
No, I'm saying when we had an earlier release date with MSFT we therefore started beta earlier.
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 09:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
I put together a lower end machine that would run VG fine at like 1600x1200 or below and also took out gamepc.com assembly and burn in. I don't think you can get under $2k for a Vanguard machine without, like I had mentioned, using egghead or some such and buying all the components yourself. You can probably save $300-$500 bucks doing that. So maybe $1500 or so if you like to shop a lot, $2k if you don't, and then under $2.5k if you want them to burn it in and want a higher end machine. I put in slower memory, although it's still not *that* slow. The CPU should be fine. I found a cheaper motherboard, put in a smaller hard drive but still a fast one, assuming this would be primarily a gaming machine and not one also used to store a lot of other data. Lastly, I configured it with a lesser power supply, but one that I'm sure is sufficient. The only question I have is the video card -- I'd still splurge for an x1950 (or even 8800) if you can afford it because you get a lot of payoff for having a faster video card with VG. I took out the xfi card, which will make it a bit slower but save some money, and I used 32 bit XP to save a bit, which again will make it slightly slower but not a ton slower. Also, using 32 bit XP you have much better compatibility with drivers.

1 x Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (2.13 GHz) Dual Core Retail - $278.00
1 x Zalman CNPS8000 Cooler for Socket-775 / AM2 - $58.00
1 x Asus P5B Intel P965 Retail - $185.00
1 x Kingston DDR2-667 2 GB - $505.00
1 x Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000 RPM OEM - $228.00
1 x Sony AW-Q170AB Black Dual Layer DVD ± RW / CD-RW OEM - $85.00
2 x Sapphire Radeon X1650 Pro PCIe 256MB Retail - $320.00
1 x I-Star S-10000LB Black EATX Full-Tower - $135.00
1 x Seasonic S12 500W Power Supply - $130.00
1 x Microsoft Windows XP Home OEM with Vista Upgrade - $125.00
1 x 1 Year Parts and Labor Standard Warranty Included Free - $0.00
1 x Self-Assembly Of System (Install Performed By You) - $0.00



Subtotal Price (Excludes Discounts, Taxes or Shipping) - $2,049.00


Here's the same box but with an x1950 which I think is worth the extra money IMHO:

1 x Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (2.13 GHz) Dual Core Retail - $278.00
1 x Zalman CNPS8000 Cooler for Socket-775 / AM2 - $58.00
1 x Asus P5B Intel P965 Retail - $185.00
1 x Kingston DDR2-667 2 GB - $505.00
1 x Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000 RPM OEM - $228.00
1 x Sony AW-Q170AB Black Dual Layer DVD ± RW / CD-RW OEM - $85.00
2 x Sapphire Radeon X1950 Pro PCIe 256 MB Retail - $530.00
1 x I-Star S-10000LB Black EATX Full-Tower - $135.00
1 x Seasonic S12 500W Power Supply - $130.00
1 x Microsoft Windows XP Home OEM with Vista Upgrade - $125.00
1 x 1 Year Parts and Labor Standard Warranty Included Free - $0.00
1 x Self-Assembly Of System (Install Performed By You) - $0.00



Subtotal Price (Excludes Discounts, Taxes or Shipping) - $2,259.00


and then a more uber machine that will give you screaming fps. Included an SLI motherboard, but only one GPU because VG doesn't fully support SLI yet, but when it does, you could add another 8800. I left the memory speed at ddr2-800 because I didn't see an Nvidia motherboard that supported faster memory. I also put it back to XP 64 and made it 4gb which does help a bit and will help more in the future.

1 x Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 (2.67 GHz) Dual Core Retail - $638.00
1 x Zalman CNPS8000 Cooler for Socket-775 / AM2 - $58.00
1 x Asus P5N32-E SLI Nvidia nForce 680i SLI Retail - $398.00
2 x Corsair XMS DDR2-800 2 GB EPP TwinX Pack - $676.00
1 x Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB 7,200 RPM OEM - $262.00
1 x Sony AW-Q170AB Black Dual Layer DVD ± RW / CD-RW OEM - $85.00
2 x XFX GeForce 8800 GTX XXX Edition 768 MB Retail - $1,776.00
1 x Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio OEM - $90.00
1 x Lian Li V1200B Plus II Black EATX Full-Tower - $298.00
1 x Silverstone ST75F 750W Power Supply - $198.00
1 x Microsoft Windows XP Professional (64-bit) OEM with Vista Upgrade - $198.00
1 x 1 Year Parts and Labor Standard Warranty Included Free - $0.00
1 x Self-Assembly Of System (Install Performed By You) - $0.00



Subtotal Price (Excludes Discounts, Taxes or Shipping) - $4,677.00

and then my total dream machine which is really looking towards the future. Quad core won't help much now, but will in the future. Same with SLI. Kept the memory at 800 because I still don't see an nvidia motherboard that supports faster. Bigger hard drive, not as fast rpm wise, but more cache. Pimped out the case some and upped the horsepower of the power supply just because I like plenty of power.

1 x Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4 GHz) Quad Core Retail - $1,085.00
1 x Zalman CNPS8000 Cooler for Socket-775 / AM2 - $58.00
1 x Asus Striker Extreme Nvidia nForce 680i SLI Retail - $495.00
2 x Corsair XMS DDR2-800 2 GB EPP TwinX Pack - $676.00
1 x Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB 7,200 RPM OEM - $262.00
1 x Sony AW-Q170AB Black Dual Layer DVD ± RW / CD-RW OEM - $85.00
2 x XFX GeForce 8800 GTX XXX Edition 768 MB Retail - $1,776.00
1 x Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio OEM - $90.00
1 x Silverstone Temjin SST-TJ07 Black EATX Full-Tower - $375.00
1 x Seasonic S12-HT 650W Power Supply - $198.00
1 x Microsoft Windows XP Professional (64-bit) OEM with Vista Upgrade - $198.00
1 x 1 Year Parts and Labor Standard Warranty Included Free - $0.00
1 x Self-Assembly Of System (Install Performed By You) - $0.00



Subtotal Price (Excludes Discounts, Taxes or Shipping) - $5,298.00


Then the uber ATI machine. Granted it will be a bit slower because ATI I don't think is shipping their next gen dx10 cards yet (right now Nvidia has them beat). But you can put faster memory in, etc. The motherboard says it will only support ddr2-800 but searching on the net people have said they've put 1066 memory in it, so I did here. I went quad core just to be extreme 4 gigs of RAM although I think you can go more. But again having an 8 gig machine that I'm typing on right now, there just aren't enough 64 bit apps to use it all. You'd think there's be a 64bit Adobe Primiere for editing HD video, but there's not yet -- I couldn't find any significant software that was 64bit and therefore could access more than 2gb of memory, although I'm sure we will soon with Vista 64 out.

1 x Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (2.4 GHz) Quad Core Retail - $1,085.00
1 x Zalman CNPS8000 Cooler for Socket-775 / AM2 - $58.00
1 x Asus P5B Deluxe Intel P965 Retail - $268.00
2 x Corsair XMS DDR2-1066 2 GB EPP TwinX Pack - $970.00
1 x Western Digital Raptor X 150GB 10,000 RPM OEM - $374.00
1 x Sony AW-Q170AB Black Dual Layer DVD ± RW / CD-RW OEM - $85.00
1 x Sapphire Radeon X1950 XT 256 MB Retail - $312.00
1 x Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Retail - $120.00
1 x Coolermaster Stacker 832 Black EATX Full-Tower - $338.00
1 x Enermax Galaxy 850W Power Supply - $320.00
1 x Microsoft Windows XP Professional (64-bit) OEM with Vista Upgrade - $198.00
1 x 1 Year Parts and Labor Standard Warranty Included Free - $0.00
1 x Self-Assembly Of System (Install Performed By You) - $0.00



Subtotal Price (Excludes Discounts, Taxes or Shipping) - $4,128.00

Again, I'm sure one could save a lot on any of these systems by using newegg or some other site and buying all of the components seperately and then building the machine oneself.

Last edited by Aradune Mithara : 03-20-2007 at 07:39 PM.
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 08:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twobit Whore View Post
Or I could just keep my current machine which runs every other title on the market *very* well for free.

I think you are honestly being way too flippant about people just going out and upgrading. That may have worked when things came along every 6 months that made the computing world rethink the future - especially when compatibility wasn't always the highest priority, but these days things are different.
Definitely not trying to be flippant at all -- apologies if I came across that way. I was just trying to make a point that you don't need a $3k or $4k machine to run Vanguard at high setting and high resolution.
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 08:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyenae View Post
750w powersupply to power an old intel and 1 ATI gpu?
$300 dollar case?
$400 for 2gig Ram paired with a 2.8ghz dual core?

what the hell?
Yeah, you probably don't need such a powerful power supply -- I just tend to get powerful ones so I don't ever run into power problems. And yes you can probably get the ram cheaper elsewhere and no you don't need such a pimp case
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 08:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by kohl View Post
Did Brad say that he was looking for minimum 300k subs? I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that any dev with some pride wouldn't be shooting for "as many subs as my game's success allows".

Did you read Brad's wall of text? He laments on and on about how people are pigeonholing his game as 'hardcore' or 'tedious' but that in reality, VG is really about everyone. It's meant to appeal to hardcore, core and casual. If that is the case, and its a solid quality game, and MOST importantly - its FUN - why could it *not* garner 1 million subs? Any please don't use the tired bullshit excuse of Sigil not having a big name, because positive word of mouth in the gaming community, quite frankly, does wonders.
I believe I said it needed 200k-300k to be successful, and that I hoped to see 500k after the game was out 1 year, which would make it very profitable. So far we are in the mid 150s which is less than I would have hoped, but still good and still growing.

I have said we released 2-3 months early and that releasing near BC was a mistake, but there was nothing we could do about it. That doesn't mean we were perfect in our development -- we made mistakes -- I talked about in the NYT about how hard it was to manage and organize a team of 100 people when we were used to to EQ 1 (which had about 25 people). So yes, it was harder to schedule and remain as focused and efficient. We also had the switch from MSFT to SOE which slowed us down and caused us to start beta too early.

We also made the mistake of releasing a little early in terms of tech, e.g. we had hoped that computers would be cheaper that could run Vanguard by the time we launched. Time will fix this, but it is hurting us short term. In 20/20 hindsight we probably should have gone a bit lower tech and made a smaller world. But we really felt strongly from the very beginning that part of immersiveness in next gen MMOG was being seamless where you could travel wherever you wanted to, fly anywhere, be able to load any object in the world anywhere in the world, etc. Again, I think longer term as tech is increasing so rapidly, a lot of these problems will go away and having a seamless world with no instancing, ships and flying mounts, etc. will pay off.

I will apolgize for all of the above and the buck stops here. I won't, however, apologize for the team: they worked their asses off and continue to and truly believe in the game (as do I). That said, while I apologize for the mistakes, some of which we made and some of which were out of our hands, we also got the opportunity to make a very ambitious game, the game of our dreams, and were a start-up company that got a 30M+ budget, which is basically unheard of. So while VG does indeed have some issues, I know a lot of people are having fun with it, and a lot more will have fun with it in the future and call it a home. I am also proud to have been part of such an awesome team and to have been able to launch a second MMOG (not something a lot of people can say they have done). So, again, I do apologize for the shortcomings, but am also proud of the game and its potential, and am confident that while it is a successful game now (certainly not a WoW, but not a D&D online either) it will gain momentum as tech catches up, people tire of BC, etc. And also as we through both expansions and the live team add more really cool features to the game over the next year.

Also things like teleporters, experience rates, better LFG tools, etc. are all being looked at and you will see changes soon. I don't have the details yet, but we are listening and the game will get better and the areas where we messed up (large world, but too hard to find a group, etc.) will be addressed.
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 08:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by woqqqa View Post
Or even if Sigil had managed to implement the AES (Automatic (?) Encounter System) they hyped so much prior to release. Instead, it's EQ camping time! Yeah, this game's going to last....
AES is in and used a bit, but not nearly enough. Turned out to take a LOT more time than expected to implement it, and with the rush to get the game out, there isn't much. All I can do is apologize. I do believe it will be tweaked and optimized and used more in the future with higher level content, and I still very much believe it the design -- it's the tedious nature of the implementation that hurt us
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 07:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drtyrm View Post
Those environment textures drive me nuts. I can't get my head around the multiple hard edges between objects wrapped in various stone.

Does VG still screenshot without some of the graphical effects being applied?
What you are seeing is static meshes (the rocks) penetrating height field terrain. Making a world as big as we did using a height field terrain (like EQ 2 did) would have made the install like 50gb not 17gb. In the future though as hardware becomes cheaper and more powerful, I think you will see large, seamless worlds where the terrain is not a height field and are polygons just like the objects in the world.
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0 Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? F I R E S    O F    H E A V E N
Mar 20, 2007 - 07:40 PM - by Aradune Mithara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nino View Post
I wasn't here during the first year when that decision was made.
It was somewhat the same. Planning for the future to make sure the game would look good years from now, architecting it so we could easily integrate new graphics tech, the fact that we like games that use the latest tech personally, and we made a large world so we could have plenty of room to expand it with the live team and not just have to make new areas with expansions, and we also wanted plenty of room for player housing.

Was that the right call? Time will tell. There are certainly drawbacks and negatives too it. And we'd hoped that machines that would run the game well would be cheaper and hoped we'd release a little later too. But what's done is done.

We made the same gamble with EQ 1 being a hardware only (voodoo 1) game and it paid off, but these are different times.

I think we will catch up and tech will catch up too, but it is hurting us in the short term.
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