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0 "King Arthur" O F F I C I A L    V A N G U A R D    F O R U M S
Jul 11, 2004 - 09:01 AM - by T.King
I have no idea of what is fact, and what is fiction, since a lot of what I've read appeared to be interpretations. The interpretations seemed to be derived from religious scrolls/text from various perspectives, there is a lot of debate involving this, something I don't want to get involved with. I believe that monks were the record keepers of that time, and everything I read relating to Arthur always leads me back to two things, Maximus, and Roman events as writen in Christian religious texts.
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0 "King Arthur" O F F I C I A L    V A N G U A R D    F O R U M S
Jul 11, 2004 - 05:33 AM - by T.King
It was over two years ago that I read it, but I seem to recall it was in a book about castles, and some Brit Arthurian researchers that have been trying to get official documents publicized that go into greater detail about the time when Romans abandoned England. Check:
Quote:
Merlin and the Grail: Joseph of Arimathea - Merlin - Perceval: The Trilogy of Arthurian Romances attributed to ROBERT DE BORON, trasnslated by Nigel Bryant, D. S. Brewer, 2001, P. 171
Excepts from the True King Arthur Found:
Quote:
Modern guidebooks tell tourists not to tread upon her accursed tomb for fear of being made barren. The chief subject of Arthur began by saying how glad he was in his heart for the war: “tanta leticia animo meo.” In fact, he thrilled for the blood of Romans and Germans (i.e. Saxons): “romani and germani.” Oh, he cried. Shall I never see that great day dawn (when I can drink their blood?) “O siillam lucem videbo? “ Then my wounds will be sweet: “quam dulcia erunt vulnera!” That great death which I shall suffer then and there will also be sweet to me: “Illa etiam more dulcis erit.” We shall enjoy our victory. Aside from Sir Thomas Malory’s brilliant, wonderful, and moving accounts of the deaths of Queen Guinevere, Sir Gawain and Sir Lancelot in the last chapters of Morte d’ Arthur, the story of Queen Guinevere’s adultery has proven in the long run a poor solution to the problem of "lost knowledge."

During the later years of the declining Roman Empire, the greatest of all threats to the Roman Church arose from the Desposynic royal strain in Gaul. The Desposyni were those who kept the record of the Holy Bloodline of Christ alive. This threat was the Merovingian dynasty — the male line descendants of the Fisher Kings. Between the fifth and seventh centuries the Merovingians ruled large parts of what are now France and Germany. The period of their ascendancy coincides with the period of King Arthur. In the 4th century, the Sicambrian Franks moved from Pannonia (west of the Danube) to the Rhineland, under their chiefs Genobaud, Marcomer, and Sunno. Settling into the region of Germania, they established their seat at Cologne, still the site of one of the largest gothic-style cathedrals begun in 1248 and completed in 1880. Over the next century, their armies invaded Roman Gaul and overran the area that is now Belgium and Northern France. The Franks, for whom France was named, were themselves so called after their chief Francio (a descendant of Noah) who died in 11BC. It was at this stage that Genobaud’s daughter Argotta married the Fisher King Faramund or Pharamond, who reigned from 419-430 AD. Faramund is often cited to have been the true patriarch of the French monarchy. Faramund was the grandson of Boaz in the direct Messianic succession from Aminadab, who married King Lucius’s daughter Eurgen. Argotta was herself descended from King Lucius’s sister Athildis, who married the Sicambrian chief Marcomer. Thus the Merovingian succession which ensued was dually Desposynic, bringing together both the lines of Jesus and of James.

It was under this Merovee’s son, Clovis, that the Franks were converted to Roman Christianity, just as in Arthur’s tale Arthur is responsible for the undoing of the Celtic Church and the displacement of the Druidic powerbase, thus helping to put a Romanised Church in Britain. The last Roman outposts in Gaul capitulated to Clovis I in 486, and the foundations of a new empire were laid in the Merovingian dynasty, inaugurating the beginning of medieval Europe. It was through Clovis that Rome began to establish her undisputed supremacy throughout Western Europe — a supremacy which would remain unchallenged for almost a thousand years — cementing the power base of Lucifer in the Roman Catholic Church and the Holy Roman Empire — much as Arthur might have been thought to do in turning over Great Britain to Roman orthodoxy. According to tradition Clovis’ conversion was a sudden and unexpected affair, affected by the king’s wife, Clotilde (later canonized as St. Clotilde) — a fervent devotee of Rome, ably guided and assisted as she was by Saint Remy. Arthur was also said to have become obsessed with Roman Christianity to the extent that he began to regard his Guletic cavalry as a holy army, much in the way the Knights of the Round Table are portrayed. This disposition led to considerable disturbance within the Celtic Church—Arthur was, after all, destined to be the next King of the Scots. The elders were particularly worried that he might try to inaugurate a Romanized kingdom in Dalraida, and it was on this account that Arthur is said to have made an enemy of his own son, Mordred, who was Archpriest of the Sacred Kindred (relatives in the Bloodline from King David). What is known about Clovis’s conversion is that in 496 AD a number of secret meetings occurred between Clovis and Saint Remy, and immediately thereafter an accord was ratified between Clovis and the Roman Church.

Geoffrey’s reconstruction of King Arthur’s expedition to the continent appears to be a scholarly attempt to imagine such a campaign, part of which being the war against the Romans. The last Roman outposts in Gaul capitulated to Clovis I in 486 AD.
You can see Arhtur's link to roman ways, who was also refered to as Maximus by some historians, and where a quote like I mentioned could have easily come. As to the authenticity, I'm an enthusiast, not a historian. I've always loved ancient mythology. Look at the structure on that website, I modeled it after a real Senator of Romes home, you get a cookie if you can figure out who.
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0 "King Arthur" O F F I C I A L    V A N G U A R D    F O R U M S
Jul 11, 2004 - 04:41 AM - by Artois
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.King
Arthur did indeed exist, He is quoted for having said, that he was saddened to see the old ways of Rome die. I've always had a deep fascination with the history of Romans, which at one time ruled a quarter of the world, and profoundly influenced modern society. I even ran a semi-rp guild for several years that was themed after the Roman Republic. Check out my old guild site that I made a long time ago: 'Temple of Maximus'

I’ll probably go see this movie, as I am an astute Arthurian enthusiast.

Source please. I want to see your "actual Arthur quotes"
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0 "King Arthur" O F F I C I A L    V A N G U A R D    F O R U M S
Jul 11, 2004 - 04:40 AM - by Artois
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinian
I'm curious Artois, have you read Jack Whyte's Camulod series? Its a fantihistorical along the same lines of the film. How would you place Arthur in the real history of the world? It's really quite good and a very good "theory" on the whole thing. The first couple books are about the forging of Excaliber and Arthur's Great Grandfathers, two british soldiers of Rome. The next few books are about Meryln and Uther, from Meryln's pov and then the raising and rise of Arthur (still from Meryln's pov).

It dives into some great information about the times: celtic tradition, druidism, the creation of the long sword and sturrups, not to mention the roman abandonment of britan.

Read them and eagerly awaiting the next one due in September. I found this series by accident on one of my book buying trips to Vancouver when I lived in Seattle. (I used to go to Canada to get British editions of books that were either not available in the U.S. or weren't out yet. Plus you couldn't beat the power of the dollar there.)

I place Arthur after the Romans. I think Whyte got it very close to where I feel he existed. There were definate advantages to being educated by Romans or being part of their army. In fact, one of the main contributing factors to the fall of the Roman Empire was the training of non-Romans in Roman military tactics. Once trained, those people would leave the army after serving their time, go home to their tribe on some Roman frontier and then teach others everything they knew.
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0 "King Arthur" O F F I C I A L    V A N G U A R D    F O R U M S
Jul 10, 2004 - 07:32 PM - by T.King
Arthur did indeed exist, He is quoted for having said, that he was saddened to see the old ways of Rome die. I've always had a deep fascination with the history of Romans, which at one time ruled a quarter of the world, and profoundly influenced modern society. I even ran a semi-rp guild for several years that was themed after the Roman Republic. Check out my old guild site that I made a long time ago: 'Temple of Maximus'

I’ll probably go see this movie, as I am an astute Arthurian enthusiast.
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0 "King Arthur" O F F I C I A L    V A N G U A R D    F O R U M S
Jul 09, 2004 - 08:15 PM - by Artois
I finished the adaptation of it last week. I am a huge Arthurian fan. However, this story line just does not work well in this script. It felt like inserting the names of Arthur and others we know so well was done to gather more interest in what really should just be a historical action film. There are lots of stories that could be told of this period of history without having to tell the "real story" of Arthur.

Did Arthur exist? Most likely, someone like him did exist but as with most legends much of what is believed are concocted tales. There are some really fascinating theories out about who Arthur is and how he fits into history.

This movie is not one of them though. It read like a screenplay of any Bruckheimer film. Lots of action, little on character development and very transparent and predictable.
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