Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Boats were put into EverQuest because we thought (and still do think) that travel should mean something, and that faraway lands should be exotic. Traveling somewhere distant should be an accomplishment as much as anything else. However, they turned out to be boring -- you'd sit on them, doing very little, which means you weren't playing the game.

The trick is to make it such that travel is still meaningful, distant lands are still distant and exotic, but to make the journey fun and interesting in and of itself. This is really one of those areas where, like instancing, we feel there is a trend to 'throw the baby out with the bath water': ‘traveling has been boring, so let's get rid of travel! Teleport where thou will’t!’

Sigil's philosophy on this and many other issues is to attack the problem, not the premise (assuming the premise is sound, and we think almost all of us want distant lands to have an allure and a rarity, and to be rewarded for exploration).

We want to keep travel and not have everyone porting everywhere, but at the same time make travel more interesting and meaningful, and also incorporate some ideas for offline travel and other mechanics that make it easier for a group of friends to stay together (especially given the size of our world).

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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That is our goal, yes. The journey to your destination should be challenging and fun. There will be content along the way. Horses and other means of faster transportation will also become available as characters become higher level and need to travel further. We sincerely believe there should be fun in "getting there".

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Yes. The world of Telon is huge. Travel between lands will take some time, but again, we believe the travel in and of itself should be fun. We are including "assistance" items such as a Compass and Travel Journal to help players deal with the size of the world.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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To be clear, you will have access to horses pretty quickly. The idea then is that you can traverse the continent you are on more quickly than just by running.

Coast hugger ships come next, which will help people get around continents by sailing around their perimeter.

Ocean going ships are higher level, but not uber epic only a few people will have. They'll be around, believe me. And even if you don't choose to build one, I think it's likely that you'll have a friend or guildmate who does have one. If not, perhaps you pay someone for a ride, and then we are also going to implement NPC piloted transport ships if necessary. Keep in mind that these ships, especially the ocean going ones, are pretty big and can carry multiple people.

Combine that with the offline travel that the caravan system gives you, and I think we'll be in good shape. Worst, worst case scenario, as I've posted in the past, we could implement a small number of Velious style teleports, but we really hope to not have to do that (mostly because we really want to make meaningful travel an important part of the game. Coding them is actually pretty easy).

Vehicles are integral to gameplay (and not just for travel).

We are planning horses and ships at this point. There's not reason we couldn't have another more exotic vehicles, but they'd probably be in an expansion.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Horses are integral to ground-based travel. We expect characters to own a horse fairly quickly to help with travel. Horses will also be able to store goods and even be enhanced with certain items, just like your character and/or your ship.

It is also possible for combat to take place while on a mount, or even while on board ships

-Horses will act like pets and obey your orders (including follow me).

-If both you and your persistent 'pet' die, yes, 2 CRs.

-You won't be able to take a horse everywhere -- you'll often need to hitch it at an Outpost.

-All races will ride. I think we can make this work and not look too non-RP. This is a gameplay > realism issue though given how integral travel is to Vanguard.

Most people I've seen have been able to afford the entry level horse between levels 10 and 15. So far I am pleased with how this is working out, how it affects travel, keeping the world big but not making travel too tedious. – 8 November 2005

Actually I think we can do both. While low level horses are pretty accessible (currently in beta you can afford to buy one between levels 10-15 or so), we plan on having several tiers of them. Some will go faster, some will store more, and some will just simply look a lot cooler. So owning a high level horse can still be a status symbol I think even though horses in general will be rather commonplace. – 10 November 2005

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Last updated: 2006-02-11 16:46:07

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Different types of horses will be available, both depending on where you are buying them and also what type (a horse more focused on carrying goods vs. speed, etc.), as well as how much you have to spend on one.

How many variations? Honestly, as many as we can make. And we will add more after release too.

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Last updated: 2006-02-17 06:03:01

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At this point horses look different depending on the type, and you can also equip them with armor (barding -- I think some of the more recent screenshots show this). The degree to which customization will be possible at release, though, is to early to commit to. Horses and other mountable NPCs are being built, however, with customization in mind.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Yes, you will be able to ride ships and even own a ship of your own should you earn the money to afford one. The world contains many continents to explore, with vast seas connecting them. And these oceans won't be empty -- expect meaningful travel as you sail the seas of Telon, and all sorts of interesting encounters.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Both NPC-controlled as well as player-controlled and owned.

Player-owned ships will need to be crafted by the appropriate crafting classes.

Various types of player owned ships will be available, including 'coast hugger' ships, as well as ocean going vessels, some better for defense, some better for hauling equipment, etc...

Players will, just like with their residences and their horses, be able to both store goods in their ships. They will also be able to enhance their ships by equipping them with items.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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We believe travel should be fun—it’s a basic part of the adventure. With that in mind, encounters and other events can and will occur while on board boats and ships. Sea monsters will be able to attack not only the characters on a ship, but do damage to the ship itself. This is also the case with pirates.

A vast empty ocean, devoid of land, is unlikely. Expect to see lots of islands or archipelagoes en route to your destination.

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Last updated: 2006-09-15 13:55:04

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while mounted combat will not be available at launch, players should expect it in the future.

We are NOT promising MOUNTED combat on release.

You may have to get off your horse to fight effectively, and then your horse would be a pet and fight with you, etc. (and, remember, you can equip your horse with armor and such to make it more formidable).

I'm all for mounted combat, but man, it's tough stuff.

What's pretty solid: Pirates or any other NPCs you end up fighting while on a ship will likely attack you, any other players you're with, and your ship. You and your companions will obviously be able to fight back.

What's likely: In addition to being able to store items on your ship for transport, you'll hopefully be able to equip it (and your horse, etc.) with items that could increase its armor class, sturdyness (HP), etc.

What's post launch: Hopefully ship to ship battles, but hey, as cool as it is to dream about that stuff, we have to be realistic right now and get this crazy big detailed game as it is into beta!

Actual ship to ship combat probably will NOT make the game by launch, but we do plan to have it one day. If you are on your ship you can be attacked by sea creatures as well as NPCs piloting their own ships. Your ship can be damaged during the battle, needing to fixed, but it doesn't actually deal damage -- you and your passengers will do the fighting. – 31 October 2005

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Last updated: 2006-02-11 06:37:34

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There may be a ferry service available, a larger boat captained by an NPC. It will probably be quite a bit slower, or go on a route that takes you around a circuit that you might not really want to waste your time on if you have the resources and capabilities to craft a boat yourself.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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This shouldn't be an issue based on how much more we now know, the better tech, and the fact that we built Vanguard from the ground up knowing that ship travel would be an integral part of the game, as opposed to an afterthought.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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In general, based on boat/ship type.

*possibly* enhanced by how you equip your vehicle.

Some modifications to speed from spells and the like.

We know this isn't exactly what you guys are talking about re: druids, but it made us think of the other day when we were testing pilotable ships and messing with wind speed and direction -- it occurred to us how cool it will be to have a druid on board to help you influence the wind to your favor and perhaps even increase its speed via higher level spells... Concepts like this are what we feel distinguish Vanguard from its competitors.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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You will be able to name your ship and your horse and any other persistent vehicles.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Think of your horse or ship as an extension of your character. Your character can 'die', but it really only generates a corpse with your items.

Healing a horse will undoubtedly involve skills similar to those used to heal or revive a character. Repairing ships, on the other hand, will involve the crafting sphere. Once you have completed your healing or repairs, you may not only retrieve your items, but your horse and ship are also 'brought back to life' and made usable again.

Your ship remains as a corpse (flotsam) and can be 'brought back to life' by a craftsman skilled in that area. You never lose your corpses or items (I'm talking PvE servers here -- let's not get into PvP at this point) that were on your character, horse, ship, or house.

As for swimming the oceans in search of your damaged ship, unless you died too, you'd still be at that location. If you had died and returned to your bind point, a more efficient route would be to have someone in their ship take you back to the point of your defeat (using the silvery cord system to guide you across the waters). That is, unless you really like swimming

Yes, you'll need to find another ship, your own or somebody else's, and then use your travel journal to guide you back to your corpse. You'll also likely want to bring a crafter with you to repair your ship unless you choose to abandon it. In any case, you'll want to loot your corpse and your ship, in that it may have items stored on it as well.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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You 'log out' your ships and horses at the appropriate locations so they don't sit there and take up a ton of room when not being used.

Characters are persisted, and then everything that character owns. Except now your character can own other persistent objects which can be in various states, including being logged out of the game or in.

So we save your character, his items, any vehicles he owns if they are logged in at the time, and any items on that vehicle. And vehicle is used very generically: it really means anything that needs to be persistent that isn't on your character, so it's horses, ships, your house (a vehicle that doesn't move, I suppose), etc.

A vehicle is also really a character is most ways. It has a status. It can contain items. It can have stats. Etc. Etc. The difference is only that it's owned by another character, whereas your main character isn't owned per se.

Now you're probably asking yourself, why is Brad going into all this detail when I asked a simple question

Well, I think it helps to think of your vehicles/pets/buildings in this sense.

Can your character die? Yes, though he is not permanently dead, but you are restricted to him in the sense that your items are still on the corpse and you may also have the opportunity to resurrect that corpse.

The same is true for, say, a horse. It's a character owned by your character. It has an inventory, it can be equipped, it has stats, and it has a status (alive, dead). If it dies, it becomes a corpse as well, and you can loot it, potentially drag it, and resurrect it as well.

Same with a ship. It has an inventory (cargo), can be equipped with items that affect its stats and abilities, and it can 'die'. The names change (instead of a corpse, it's 'floatsam'; instead of being resurrected by a cleric, it's repaired by a craftsman), but it's all the same.

And, lastly, the same with a building you own. You can place items in it, decorate it to some degree (equip it), and it can 'die' if it's attacked by, say, a band of wandering kobolds. And, like the dead horse or floatsam on the sea, the house's status changes to one of disrepair when it's hit points become zero. You'll also need a craftsman then to repair the house, though likely with different skills and abilities than the craftsman who can repair a ship, changing it from floatsam into something pilotable again.

There are some differences, too, though. You can, of course, log out your character. When you do, what happens to other persistent objects that you own? Well, it depends. A building you own stays in the game and doesn't log out. It's always there, regardless of its state, unless you actually purposely delete it.

Your horse? It should probably log out with you, but is this true in all cases? This is something we'll have to mess with in beta.

Your ship? Well, what if there are people on it when you log out (intentionally or unintentionally -- what if you go LD?). Again, some rules we're going to have to play with.

You can definitely, however, log out a ship or a horse if you trigger it and it's in the right location (docks, stables, an outpost, etc.). We don't want a situation like one saw in UO where there are ships for miles down the coastline because they don't log out.

Also, what about vendors or hirelings?

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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I think drowning from exhaustion would be a little too hard core and frustrating. It will be frustrating enough swimming as opposed to using a boat/ship because you'll be moving that much slower.

Also, to head out into deep waters, you'll not only need a ship (e.g. you can't swim there), but you'll need an ocean going ship as opposed to a coast hugger.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Combat movement speed will not be reduced when auto attacking. Combat movement speed will be slowed to a walk when executing special abilities with a timer.

What does this mean? This means that if you want to cast a spell, you go down to walk movement speed. Yes, in Vanguard you can move (very slowly) and cast spells and use certain melee special abilities that have timers.
Caveat that will be tested in beta - SV.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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There is, and will be a jump button in Vanguard.

That said, we dont plan on making jumping a key part of gameplay. It's simply something you can do.

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Last updated: 2006-01-14 13:01:59

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The trick, we think, is to make travel a part of the adventure too. Sitting on a ship doing nothing isn't fun -- it's downtime at its worst. But what if traveling from one location to the next was challenging, exciting, and fun in and of itself? If we can manage that in Vanguard, extensive or egregious use of teleportation should not be necessary.

That said, some means by which to teleport will be present in some cases (e.g. likely within dungeons only).

Our plans to 'ease' travel at higher levels is primarily centered around making faster vehicles available to higher level players. We're still of the opinion that adding teleports in the outdoors shouldn't be necessary and will make travel more meaningful.

We currently have no plans to implement any sort of "gate stone".

There will be some teleportation in dungeons and the like, primarily to keep groups together. We've stated that we don't want to see it outside and want to make transportation meaningful and fun and also focused on vehicles (horses, ships), not teleportation.

That said, as with many of our ideas, we have a Plan B. If in beta we can't make some of our ideas work, we have other mechanics we can implement. With travel in particular, if it truly becomes necessary, we'd likely implement limited teleportation to specific points and require the player to have at least traveled to the destination point once without being teleported.

More specifically, the intent is to have no overland teleports with a travel purpose. You still have evacs, coh type spells, teleporter traps and such in dungeons, etc.(beta 2)

overland teleportation: as you guys know, we don't plan on having it, focusing more on vehicles and meaningful travel. That said, I have talked about 'plan b', such that we can easily introduce some limited overland teleportaion if necessary (though at this point I don't think it will be). If it is, however, it will likely not be class specific (rather based on special locations where you can teleport from point a to point b, assuming you've already been to point b at least once, ala early Velious style).

Rezzing is class specific, or, more acurately, job specific -- any of the healers can do it, not just clerics proper.

SoW type spells will be available from several classes, although with our emphasis on horses and making quick overland travel accessible early on in the game, I don't foresee it having the importance it did in, say, EQ.

Non-travel related teleportation (evacs, CoH, etc.) are class specific, but also mostly spread out across all of the mage classes.

This is one of the advantages of our job system -- spells that are traditionally priest or mage related and also really key to gameplay can be given to each class within that job, while other more specific and situational spells can be given to one class within a job and not the other so we don't have all of the classes within a job become too similar as I know many fear may occur. - January 2006

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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The Vanguard game engine is being designed to allow for flying (some screenshots and last year's E3 in-game movie show this, and some of you who have had the game demo'd to you have probably seen us use GM powers and then fly high up into the air -- having a true seamless world really helps with this too, btw). Mobs already fly and can path through the air as well as on land and under water.

That said, fully supporting true flying involves a lot of planing and additional functionality and so it's unlikely we'll support true flying (as opposed to levitation, which has been in many games, back to EQ 1 and before that) at launch. Hopefully in an expansion we can really explore additional modes of travel like this. Also, griffon rides that are on tracks like WoW and EQ 2 have wouldn't be hard to implement.

Anyway, just want to be up front about this and manage expectations. Were we to have, for example, fly carpets, they would levitate, not truly fly.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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See also:
Article on Caravans (among other things) from Silky Venom - August 2005

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Last updated: 2006-05-29 13:57:51

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The caravan leader still needs to travel there. He then binds at an Outpost, so the other caravan members would appear at the Outpost.

As for exploits, we haven't revealed exactly all of the restrictions that will be applied to this system, but I think it's safe to assume level restrictions (you have to be X levels close to the carvan leader to join his caravan, etc), as well as some other mechanics. So, in your example above, the other members of the caravan would likely too to be able to move as quickly as the caravan leader (have a flying mount or whatever) and given safety in numbers, there would probably be less risk involved having your buddies go with you if they are online than have them log off.

1. He has to voluntarily join the Caravan.

2. There will be restrictions as to who can join a Caravan (see other post).

3. You pop up at the Outpost the Caravan leader last bound at, not where he last logged out at, so if he logged out in the depths of a dungeon, that is not where the other person would appear. He'd likely appear at the Outpost nearest to that dungeon, then have to make his way to the entrance of the dungeon and then be summoned to the group's location via a spell.

if a caravan worked similarly to a guild (which it will), you could name multiple Caravan leaders, or a heirarchy of leaders, obviating the potential issue you just brought up.

And yes, to answer other people's questions on this thread, you pop up where the Caravan leader last bound, which would likely be at the Outpost nearest to the dungeon or other area where your group had traveled to, so you don't pop right into the dungeon itself.

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