Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Vanguard involves the planet Telon, a world rich with history, lore, and magic, and populated by humans, elves, dwarves, and many other traditional fantasy races. The setting could be best described as High Fantasy, but not necessarily only traditional High Fantasy.

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Last updated: 2006-02-17 06:20:20

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Telon is a large world with a myriad of larger landmasses, smaller island-continents, and archipelagos strewn about its oceans and seas. Pretty much every conceivable environment exists, including plains and fields, mountains, swamps, deserts, and much more.

The world is inhabited by all sorts of creatures, some sentient, some merely beasts, and some in-between. The intelligent creatures differ greatly in culture and religion. They worship strange gods and goddesses whose very existence is a matter of some debate.

The presence and power of magic, once only described in legend, has of late become a very real force and something most every Telonite will have to deal with at some point.

The first continent in Telon we are focusing on is called Thestra; Thestra is a starting continent, meaning it's where several of the playable races will begin their journey. We have also announced the continents of Qalia and Kojan. Please check out our Lore section on the Vanguard site for more info.

Telon is the world. Qalia, Kojan, Thestra, etc. are the names of continents. New Targonor is a city, and the capitol of the free races on Thestra, though I'd hesitate to say that they really have a nation in the sense that we think of it. Borders are contested and fought for often.

Within those continents, depending on a variety of geo-political situations, you will encounter countries, kingdoms, loosely-nit confederations, city-states, the remnants of former nations, and then plenty of contested space as well as whole regions that are pretty much in chaos, with all sorts of nasty mobs roaming about, eager to teach you how our CR system works

We will launch with 3 major areas, 2 of which are huge and typical continents (Thestra and Qalia) and one of which is a large archipelago of islands that range from small islands to rather large ones (the Kojanese Archipelago). In addition to these three major areas are various other islands, large and small and in-between, that are not part of the Kojanese Archipelago (Lothenland being one of these -- an island surrounded by magically summoned persistent cold weather and housing a high level dungeon called Deriken's Tower). Other islands containing high level dungeons will also be present at launch (I'd rather not list them, to keep the mystery present and to stress the importance of exploration, including exploration by ship or boat -- I mention Lothenland/Derikens only because we already have talked about that area in the past).


See also:
Wiki entry on Telon

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Last updated: 2006-02-13 13:09:15

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Kojan is a large archipelago and we also consider it a continent because of its size and distinctive style, look, and inhabitants relative to Thestra and Qalia.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Both sexes play a significant role in the lore. As mentioned, Elvara Tuhr's journal entries speak of her contributions to New Targonor. Ginna Dalton is another woman who has some key contributions that have been talked about. -- Mike Butler.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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We feel world size should be determined by how much compelling content we can create in the development time we have. Content should drive world size and not really much else. If a world can support 3,000 or 6,000 or 20,000 people simultaneously and the community works, people can find each other, and there's stuff to do for all levels, then it's all good.

It's crazy big. Big enough that, to be honest with you, I'm concerned (though only a little) about how many people will be needed on any given shard to have the critical mass a shard needs. So while you may be worried about it being too small, we're working hard to make sure it's not too big, has the mechanics necessary to keep friends and groups together, that travel is meaningful, that there are enough points of interest, that vehicles, caravans, outposts, etc. work such that the negatives of a huge, seamless world are mitigated and the positives shine through.

Hrm. Took me easily 45 minutes running from Three Rivers to the Vulmane village, taking the easy route, and running from mobs as opposed to fighting them all. That's about, I dunno, half of Thestra in width.

The world is BIG, believe me.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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The world of Telon will not be zone-based in the traditional sense. Every square kilometer of the world we define will be there, all interconnected in a virtual grid. In other words, if you can see it, you can probably go there.

Seamless worlds offer a lot of cool things... a more immersive world, more room for a dynamic world, etc.

That's exactly what having a seamless world buys us. There is a lot of room between major areas of interest. We also have divided the world into densely and more sparsely populated areas -- corridors and circles of content is how we refer to it. This also gives us the room we need to allow players to build non-instanced houses, and also for the live team to add content to the existing world as the expansion team is busy creating all new places.

That said, as I've mentioned previously, there are some downsides. We are very focused on created points of interest, small or great, all over the world so it's not just boring terrain. And then it also creates the challenge of longer travel times, which is where the importance of vehicles (horses, ships, etc.) come into play. And making these vehicles available to players fairly early on, since they are integral to travel. While there will be higher level, rarer types of vehicles, at the same time just owning a horse, for example, is not difficult to achieve fairly early on in the game.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Nope, natural transitions. Every square foot of a continent is there.

I think we might not have been clear. What we're saying is there is no technical reason why you could not go anywhere -- every square foot of the world is there. That's what we mean by seamless.

But there will be cliffs and such that are too steep to climb, but this is by design. In other words, if at some point we introduced climbing or flying you could then travel up and over them and currently using GM abilities I can fly around anywhere I want.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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All the water is there. Whether you'll have a loading pause between large sections of the world will depend on how well we optimize things and the horsepower of your computer. Our aim is to make the hitch as minor as possible. The world is divided into a large grid of 2km by 2km 'chunks'.

I don't have the numbers off hand, but the maximum depth of the ocean and the highest mountain are both very big numbers. Not only that, we can do crazy things like layer parts of the world on top of other parts (I guess you could say that you could seamlessly zone into another area while flying up, as opposed to traveling north, east, south, or west).

So we have definitely planned accordingly there to give us lots of room to work with, and also we can keep making crazier and crazier places. I'm especially a big fan of the underwater, of finding lost cities, of fighting with the gravity different because you are floating and not standing, etc. So the tech is all there. How it will work, and to what extent we'll exploit it at launch and then beyond is to be determined.

Oh,and yes, z-axis issues that have existed in earlier games should not be an issue with Vanguard. In fact, we already have creatures flying hundreds of feet off the ground just fine, pathing, and if you do aggro them, they will come down to your level and engage if they need to.

Lastly, exploration on ships, islands, etc. will be plentiful at launch because we've made ship travel something essential to getting around the world, and we don't want travel to be boring. With seamless, you can sail where you please -- no rails or anything of the like. And so you can explore too, find islands perhaps no one has found yet, perhaps build towns there. And as I've mentioned previously, expect to be attacked while at sea by both other ships manned and piloted by NPCs as well as creatures, both flying and swimming. And don't expect a creature willing and able to destroy a ship and slay its crew to be small, either

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Yes, the game's engine will allow for different types of environments including underwater adventures.

Yes, there will be underwater adventure areas at launch. Ship travel is key to the game, and having something to do while sailing is therefore important. You can fight NPCs from your ship, and NPCs can pilot ships, so you can be attacked by, say, an NPC pirate. Also, there will be areas accessible only by ship and completely underwater. - 27 November 2005

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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We understand why some games have implemented Instancing (private virtual spaces) in which to adventure and play the game. There are certainly issues of crowding, camping, ninja-looting, and general competition for resources that are very real problems plaguing many MMOGs.

That said, we feel that Instancing is really 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' -- it's like saying, well, in these massively multiplayer games, players are a problem, so get rid of them.

We are working on an advanced encounter system that will allow multiple players and groups to co-exist within the same adventure area or dungeon but that should also all but eliminate the problems above.

This way the problems instancing addresses should be addressed, but the problems it introduces should be absent. These include:


Lack of immersion -- not running into other parties and people in what is supposed to be a virtual world.
Problems with community building by eliminating situations such as when someone you don't know saves you in the depths of a dungeon and you become friends.
Issues when, late into the night, as people leave and group sizes shrink, eventually the group is small enough that they cannot proceed in the dungeon or adventure area they are in. Without instancing, multiple groups that are shrinking can combine and remaining players continue onward.

To put it very simply it is our philosophy for Vanguard that instancing hurts the community, the sense of being in the world, and a number of other factors.

Overall this is a dead horse, it is not our intent to instance in Vanguard.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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That's certainly our goal. We realize it's more of a challenge, but we also feel strongly that the extra effort will be worth it. A seamless world is simply more immersive, and the technology and tools finally exist to allow us to have both the immersion and the detail and depth.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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In other games, we have seen cities with buildings that have looked as if they were all cast from a mold. We are trying to add as much detail as possible within reason. And that’s balanced with the game being able to run (always a good thing) and keeping within time limits. We also try to keep assets unique in different parts of the world so you get the sense that you are in a new place. – David Gilbertson @ Vanguard Gate

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Last updated: 2006-02-17 14:44:51

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Our goal is to provide interesting and varied content for the different races and classes as well as plentiful content for the level range we support at launch. As mentioned, we believe 'Content is King' -- we certainly realize how important it is to MMOGs and how many have struggled with providing enough to do at launch or soon thereafter.

The world is very big, and very full at the same time.

I just finished populating a 2km by 2km area with no less than 4 dungeons, and major POIs tied together in what I like to call an "overland dungeon".

In all honesty, the size of a pop team that could do three Madagascar size continents, all by hand, and with VGs density would be prohibitively expensive at this time.

You "could" have areas that big, but if they are empty, bland, and boring what is the point? –

Truly, that's always been the concern -- that things are too big and/or too sparse and we've been focused from very early on to mitigate those risks as much as possible.

One thing is certain, the bigger the world you make, especially if seamless, and the more you want to focus on meaningful travel, the more you also need to focus on mechanics that KEEP players and friends together. One without the other is bad, as you obviously get frustrated and have problems with critical mass.
Just to manage expectations, because of both the larger world size relative to other games like WoW, and because of our stressing and reliance upon vehicles (horses, ships, caravans, and other mounts). the density of content, points of interest, etc., while still interesting and compelling, will not be as dense as, say, WoW. Things are more spread out because of the size, importance of travel and vehicles, and because of the truly seamless nature of the world. Additionally, the way our engine works, we can patch in new content to existing land masses, and so there will naturally be some areas that are more barren in terms of content relative to other areas so that we can expand not just in terms of adding new islands or continents to the world, but also so that we can expand the world and content in general in the 'known' world, or what will be likely called the 'old' world after major expansions are launched.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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This has had, in the past, the affect of creating large tracts of emptiness followed by concentrated activity near spawn points or content zones (buildings, caves, etc...). What are you views on this and how do you plan to address this issue? I think you are still going to see areas of concentrated activity for some time to come. It is a monumental task to fill a game world with rich compelling content. That said we are continuing to add more points of interest spread throughout the game world. These points of interest will of course come both from art assets and via content. You may travel into the mountain peaks seeking out the home of the dwarves, find a merchant in need, or find an ancient monolith in the depths of a forest. – Bill Fisher @ Vanguard Gate

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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All of the world, both content-wise and graphically, will be hand-crafted by our designers and artists. We are not using an algorithmic or random approach to content generation as we feel the quality and feel of a hand-crafted world is much more compelling. This does make the game harder to develop, but it's worth it.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Absolutely -- exploration is a key component of Vanguard's gameplay and varied environments are essential.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Yes, and with the world being seamless, we can have vast, epic expanses, including views from mountaintops where you can see for many kilometers.

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Definitely. Deep, dark, dark dungeons are an integral part of any serious MMORPG. Expect to get lost in the depths of some forgotten temple catacombs or deep in a dragon's lair. And then expect to find both danger and rewards... assuming you make it out alive.

The Nusibe Necropolis is a large dungeon with lots of time spent on crafting it into being a great area (Both artistically and from a population standpoint). There are also smaller or “Mini” dungeons spread throughout the world. A small crypt, a bear cave, or even a small mine infested by kobolds are all examples of a mini dungeon.

Dungeons in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes will be populated with the style of content you expect to see in an MMO. There will be open rare mobs, mobs you kill for exp, etc.

Some dungeons might take a contiguous 6+ hours, whereas others can be broken up (say, do 1/4th of the dungeon tonight, camp out, return the next night and do another 1/4th, etc.). The latter will be more prevalent. – 9 November 2005

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Yes, from smaller villages and outposts to sprawling cityscapes and castles. Additionally, these areas won't be only for show or to buy and sell wares; rather, they will be integral to gameplay. More on this later.

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Make cities huge. Make them really cool, amazing, epic... Have one on each starting continent. Don't expect newbies to travel to them for a while... probably mid level or so. Provide reasons to go to the city for everyone; for Diplomats, they should think of cities as their dungeons.

So we get really cool cities, but they're not for newbies and therefore not overwhelming, and there's gameplay there, especially Diplomacy gameplay, so we didn't build these huge structures for nothing

Newbies start in little villages, then move to bigger villages, and then out into the world where they wish. -

The vast, vast majority of buildings will be enterable and explorable.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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This also depends on what you mean by a 'town'. There's only one huge city in, for example, Thestra. So you could be pretty far away from New Targonor. There are several villages and towns in northern Thestra, which is lower level, and they are rarely too far away, though you still are running around.

The key here is Outposts. Outposts are areas we designate as places you can bind, hitch your horse, dock your caravan, etc. These are placed throughout the world (though can be further away the higher level area you are in). The idea is that you and your group commits to an area for a while, exploring, doing overland content and quests, doing any nearby dungeons, etc. If you die or need to switch gear or are just looking for a pick up group, you head to the nearest Outpost which are designed to be natural hubs for the player population. -

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Yes, as well as various other story arcs, some of which will interrelate with the overall storyline, and many of which won't. The beginnings of this interweaving story are already revealing themselves in the Lore section of this web site and elsewhere.

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We’re going to answer this from an art perspective: We take our inspiration from traditional high fantasy artists, such as Keith Parkinson, Brom, etc. We were also fortunate to get some great artists in house in addition to Keith, like Ben Thompson and Christian Piccolo. Combine that with great design ideas, and the Sigil art team is very happy. The LOTR movies were also awesome for inspiration.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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Unless something has changed that I am unaware of (Peers over at the lore guys) Telon has one moon in the sky.

When we had internal discussions about this ages ago - having more than a single moon "felt" to sci-fi in general and having two or three moons sounded too much like two fairly popular fantasy settings.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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More than that -- climates, regions, etc.

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From a visual standpoint, Ryan could answer this a lot better than me. What I can say though, which I think I've mentioned before, is that from a design standpoint we want changes in weather/season/time of day/special days to affect gameplay... perhaps a spell works differently, or more effectively, or perhaps rare mobs appear during an equinox, etc.

As for weather, which was in the OP, it will affect gameplay as follows:

Some spells and abilities will work differently based on the weather.

A small subset of temporary abilities will be modified the longer you are in a certain climate (we call it Acclimitization). The longer you are in a desert environment, for example, you may increase in desert acclimitization and have better fire resistance. Then when you leave to, say, an icy environment, your desert acclimitization begins to atrophy and your cold weather acclimization begins to rise.

We thought this would be cool because:

1. We wanted at least some skills to atrophy, but definitely not the majority, and this seemed to make sense from an RP standpoint, etc.

2. We want to encourage groups/guilds to hunt in a given area/climate zone for a while before moving on if possible. - Aradune

We do hope to get something like this in before launch (cross your fingers). I've always wanted certain weather conditions, the phase of the moon, certain holidays, etc. to affect the world more than just visually. Having certain spells be less or more effective situationally would add a lot to the game, IMHO.

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Last updated: 2005-12-07 19:05:16

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When you're outside and it's dark, it seems dark but we also have enough ambient light such that you can find your way around. To me, weather effects, whether it's rain and snow or simply time of day, should ADD to the immersion of the game and not turn into an annoyance. I don't want players bemoaning that it's getting dark because it makes their gameplay experience less enjoyable.

I also want to see weather really matter and not simply be a cool effect to which you say 'wow' the first 3 times but then afterwards bemoan it as well. As I've posted in the past, we have the capability of making it such that spells and other abilities work better, worse, differently, etc. based on time of day, weather, and even what day in the Telon calendar it is. I'm really excited about this because it adds some variability to the world.

Lastly, I do want to say that dungeons and other crazy places are different. There are places that should be dark -- very dark. Torches, light spells, etc. should be part of adventuring in the depths. But outside... not so much.

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Certainly it is CONCEIVABLE to do deformable terrain. It is, at its simplest, an array of points in space. Moving those points around, and viola! Deformed terrain!

That said, it takes quite a considerable amount of code and tools to support all the gameplay functionality to make such a feature both balanced and fun. Today, we'd rather spend that time on other pursuits which we think you'll find much cooler.

When we are trying to figure out what features go into our game, we have to maintain an eye for 'bang for the buck', so to speak. We also have to Devil's Advocate every single feature... for example if someone can dig a hole in the terrain, what's to stop 3,000 players from turning the starting villages into swiss cheese?

One of the wonderful things about MMOGs is that we can say "not now" and mean it. Vanguard will evolve, and we'll all get to enjoy watching it and participating in its evolution. -

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On a more serious note, we just got our first pass of 'world lighting' in where the engine samples the time of day and other color values and applies them to the world. This really does make things 'less brown' and applies more color to the world (especialy at sunsets, etc.). The color values in the sky are part of this.

It also helps more detail, bump mapping, and lighting look a lot better at all times of the day.

Screenshots showing our new world lighting should be released very shortly. - mid October 2005

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I'm talking much more than ambient sound. I'm talking about ambient content. In other words, content that adds to the environment, the atmosphere, but really isn't something you could likely interact with. Sounds, butterflies, fireflies, leaves falling from a tree.

Not that's the relatively easy part (conceptually -- still requires hard work coding and doing art). The tricky part is finding elegant ways to make what you are seeing meaningful and relevant. Is something happening nearby? Is there danger? Some bridge from the ambient to the relevent to gameplay is what I'd like to shoot for. Again, no promises on this latter part -- not sure when we'll get there. - 27 October 2005

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